Wake, usc in top 25

[gadad]

<p>

I agree completely that there needs to be a hybrid category between LAC and Nat U.

</p>

<p>OK, we’ll create the "Hybrid C./U. category. What would be the top 10? For the sake of triggering an argument, how about:</p>

<p>1 - Rice
2 - Wake Forest
3 - Tufts
4 - William & Mary
5 - Annapolis
6 - West Point
7 - Air Force Academy
8 - Bucknell
9 - Rochester
10 - Richmond</p>

[willmingtonwave]

<p>Off the top of my head, I would imagine you would include Notre Dame, Georgetown, Brandeis, and perhaps Dartmouth in those rankings. I would also bump off the military academies, because I am not quite sure they fit in with the rest.</p>

<p>The other problem posed is that no system is going to be perfect. I am not sure by separating schools, it is going to make the system better. It is somewhat analogous to the two-party system for politics. Yes, it is not a perfect system, but most people (like LAC/Universities) can fall into two categories. And then we have something like Reed College, which perhaps would be the Ralph Nader in this scenario, as Reed alienates itself from this discussion. </p>

<p>This is all an interesting thought though.</p>

<p>On a side note, it makes me very happy to see quite a few Wake Forest folks posting on the USNWR comments section.</p>

[drax12]

<p>As others asked, I’m just wondering why Michigan seems to keep dropping. </p>

<p>If you note grad professional feeders, I’m sure UofM is one of the best in the nation.</p>

<p>There are UofM grads all over, certainly a lot in CA, and internationally also.</p>

<p>This is why the US News can be so wrong not to add a post-undergrad element:</p>

<p>You have all these (mainly) private universities working variables to US News to improve their rankings, and not one mentions post-undergrad when propping itself.</p>

<p>UofM produces probably many more MDs, attys, MBAs than Wake or USC, with undergrad adjustments, and yet the school keeps dropping.</p>

<p>This is why Forbes’ rankings, as flawed as they are, is good to compare with USN’s. I also like Forbes’ irreverence.</p>

[Alexandre]

<p>Given the nature of the USNWR, I think it would make sense to have separate rankings for Public universities too. The USNWR formula does not do a good job of adjusting for state funding, differences in reporting of admissions or financial statistics etc…</p>

[Sparkeye7]

<p>“Given the nature of the USNWR, I think it would make sense to have separate rankings for Public universities too.”</p>

<p>^^Sounds Good!! </p>

<p>When I was in college (undergrad), Michigan was ranked ‘higher’ than UCB based on USNWR '95. As I observe the ‘usnews rankings through the years’, I could not figure out why Michigan’s ranking has been dropping gradually particular in the last ~4 years after solidified its position as #24 or #25 for much of the last decade?! I do however see other UMich peers (Top-5 Public) leveled-off (UCB & UVA) if not slightly advance (UCLA & UNC) its ranking in the last ~10 years. </p>

<p>Source: [U.S&lt;/a&gt;. News Rankings Through the Years](<a href=“http://web.archive.org/web/20070905010206/chronicle.com/stats/usnews/index.php?category=Universities&orgs=&sort=1983]U.S”>U.S. News Rankings Through the Years)</p>

[BayBoi10]

<p>I’ve been saying that the whole time! You can’t compare apples to oranges.</p>

<p>But, you do know that USNWR already makes a rankings list for the top publics, right? </p>

<p>[Best</a> Colleges - Education - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/national-top-public]Best”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/national-top-public)</p>

<p>However, I do agree they need to be separated.</p>

[Sparkeye7]

<p>^^“However, I do agree they need to be separated.” +1</p>

<p>I guess what I was trying to say is that I’ve always perceived UMich as no less than #2 ranked Public University academically in the nation next to UCB despite the recent rankings. Nonetheless, I believe that UMich’s Admission/Administration needs to figure out why top public school like UCLA and now perhaps UNC could leapfrog Michigan (though slightly)?! Is it just the selectivity issue? How much does that factor alone weigh on the ranking scale? I do not know the usnews methodology well enough to comment… But I do sense there are probabily some other underlying issues besides a few private colleges’ recent rising. Then again, I maybe wrong?! ;0</p>

[Schmaltz]

<p>OK, we’ll create the "Hybrid C./U. category. What would be the top 10? For the sake of triggering an argument, how about:</p>

<p>1 - Rice
2 - Wake Forest
3 - Tufts
4 - William & Mary
5 - Annapolis
6 - West Point
7 - Air Force Academy
8 - Bucknell
9 - Rochester
10 - Richmond</p>

<p>Bucknell and Richmond really are LAC’s. Dartmouth would be #1; also on the list might be RPI, Clark, and Lehigh.</p>

[BayBoi10]

<p>@Sparkeye7, I could not agree more! I actually posted the following thread on UMs section prior to seeing your post.</p>

<p>

Theories as to why Michigan has fallen in the USNWR rankings.
I’m curious why this is. It wasn’t too long ago when Mich was ranked as America’s top public and in the original Big 6 universities. Also, Michigan, California, and Wisconsin were the original publics that founded the AAU. Further, Mich is one of, if not thee, wealthiest universities, public or private.</p>

<p>Someone help me make sense of this. I agree that UVA needs to be up there with the top publics, but definitely not UCLA. There is no reason why the top two publics in America need to be both [from] California.

</p>

[Sparkeye7]

<p>^^ well, I just think that there might be a few other issues that needed to be addressed regarding to USNWR’s ranking by those higher-ups in Ann Arbor as UMich is and has been one of my most respected academic institutions in America (I know the school quite well, since I had lived in Michigan for nearly a decade growing up…).</p>

[drax12]

<p>

^^“However, I do agree they need to be separated.” +1</p>

<p>I guess what I was trying to say is that I’ve always perceived UMich as no less than #2 ranked Public University academically in the nation next to UCB despite the recent rankings. Nonetheless, I believe that UMich’s Admission/Administration needs to figure out why top public school like UCLA and now perhaps UNC could leapfrog Michigan (though slightly)?! Is it just the selectivity issue? How much does that factor alone weigh on the ranking scale? I do not know the usnews methodology well enough to comment… But I do sense there are probabily some other underlying issues besides a few private colleges’ recent rising. Then again, I maybe wrong?! ;0

</p>

<p>Regarding UCLA and Cal:</p>

<p>There’s a supposed pecking order among UC schools which lists them as follows:</p>

<ol>
<li>Cal</li>
<li>UCLA</li>
<li>UCSD</li>
<li>Among UCSB, UCI…</li>
</ol>

<p>But why not UCLA = Cal? This might be heresy in US News’ rankings, but consider:</p>

<ul>
<li>UCLA typically, perpetually(?), is top-10 in private donations, ~ $300M/year, more than Cal…</li>
<li>UCLA produces more CA bar-certified attys than Cal</li>
<li>UCLA produces at least as many MD’s as Cal (neither of which artificially restrict numbers to pump up %’s)</li>
</ul>

<p>I don’t see much if anything really separating the two. Cal’s faculty is rated higher, but faculty ratings are based on a lot of flawed things as well as any other ranking, ie, a rolling forward of traditional rankings, etc. Who’s to say one cannot receive a better education at SJSU because of the more personal touch (that’s not to be confused with Stanford’s LSJU, there’s an “f” in there somewhere.).</p>

<p>Btw, Bayboi posted in the UCLA forum the following: </p>

<p>

If USC is ranked higher than UCLA in the US News, I… </p>

<p>Compelet the sentence…</p>

<p>Ex. I will scream. </p>

<p>Scary times for UCLA. I didn’t think USC would catch up this quickly.

</p>

<p>Remember in Legally Blonde when Elle Woods, graduate of the dyslexic form of UCLA, “CULA,” had that aha moment about the cabana boy being gay, “don’t tap those last year’s prada shoes at me, honey”? </p>

<p>I know if UCLA surpassed Cal, you would indeed scream. And I know you’re just imputing your emotional reaction onto others here by posting such. </p>

<p>From now on, when I read your posts, I will indeed have Perez Hilton’s voice going through my head. No offense, but I personally prefer Ms Prejean’s.</p>

[BayBoi10]

<p>We were talking about separating privates and publics not Berkeley and LA, get over yourself.</p>

[drax12]

<p>c’mon, laugh at yourself, bayboi. I know I would if I were you…</p>

[swish14]

<p>In the hybrid category, how about Notre Dame, Colgate, Georgetown, Dartmouth, Brown included as well?</p>

[noobcake]

<p>Any hybrid list without Dartmouth and Brown is fail.</p>

[TheSaiyans666]

<p>Hybrid list is a terrible idea. </p>

<p>As for drax12, I do agree, but some people see Berkeley superior because its the oldest UC. Its damn old. So, it has housed many Nobel laureates in the past compared to UCLA, which is apparently a big thing for people on these boards. Although, I do contend that an institution that has a history of a large number of Nobel winners does attract top notch faculty. I doubt this will continue longer with respect to UCLA though. We’ll see.</p>

<p>In general, the old people usually put Berkeley on a pedestal because back in the 1960s, Berkeley was one of the leading universities after Harvard in America. Now its…not exactly viewed that way as it was in 1960s…at the undergrad level at the very least. But you’re right. Many people I know have chosen UCLA over Berkeley or anyone who got into Berkeley have been rejected at UCLA. </p>

<p>HOWEVER, 2010 Berkeley EECS admits have impressed me. Some of my brother’s friends have even turned down UPenn and Princeton to go there.</p>

[gadad]

<p>

Hybrid list is a terrible idea.

</p>

<p>I’ll grant you that rating them is pretty silly, but I actually think that highlighting them on CC is a good idea. For all the students who ask for guidance in “University vs. LAC” threads, a Rice or a Brandeis can be the best of both worlds.</p>

[blbk]

<ol>
<li>Princeton University</li>
<li>Harvard University</li>
<li>Yale University</li>
<li>Massachusetts Institute of Technology</li>
<li>Stanford University</li>
<li>California Institute of Technology</li>
<li>University of Pennsylvania</li>
<li>Columbia University</li>
<li>University of Chicago</li>
<li>Dartmouth College</li>
<li>Duke University</li>
<li>Cornell University</li>
<li>Johns Hopkins University</li>
<li>Northwestern University</li>
<li>Washington University in St. Louis</li>
<li>Brown University</li>
<li>Vanderbilt University</li>
<li>Emory University</li>
<li>Rice University</li>
<li>University of California - Berkeley</li>
<li>University of Notre Dame</li>
<li>Carnegie Mellon University</li>
<li>Georgetown University</li>
<li>University of Southern California</li>
<li>University of California - Los Angeles</li>
<li>University of Virginia</li>
<li>Wake Forest University</li>
</ol>

[rjkofnovi]

<p>“HOWEVER, 2010 Berkeley EECS admits have impressed me. Some of my brother’s friends have even turned down UPenn and Princeton to go there.”</p>

<p>Your remarks are so condescending they are annoying. Berkeley is better than Princeton, and especially UPenn, in engineering. You are the one who constantly likes to bring up the Ivy League angle and how schools like Duke are considered ivies by many. However all ivy league schools, save Cornell, and Duke are not better in engineering overall than quite a few public/non ivy schools. You also act surprised when students turn down ivies and schools like Duke to attend SUPERIOR programs at public schools such as Cal. Berkeley is still one of the most elite universities in this country that is academically superior to all but a handful of schools in this county. I can name the five of them, as if you didn’t know,and can assure you one of them isn’t Duke.</p>

[UCBChemEGrad]

<p>Sayians,
Berkeley still has one of the top faculties outside two schools named Harvard and Stanford. Berkeley also has more breadth and depth in the form of top academic departments than probably any school in the world.</p>

<p>UCLA is not even close. Like most schools in recent years, its riding a demographic wave that’s lifted all boats.</p>