want info comparing USC vs UCLA

mom_of_four · February 21, 2006, 3:43am

current USC or UCLA students–or whoever would know

My d got into USC (she is interviewing for Presidential 1/2 tuition scholarship March 8-9th) and has also probably gotten into UCLA (as she got asked to apply for UCLA Regent’s scholarship which only the top 1.5 applicants get invited to apply for).

So now that both schools are a reality, its time for us to quit focusing on whether she would actually get accepted, but now-- which school is a better match.

She is an undeclared major, but interested in applied math, physical science or possibly, engineering. She is a National Merit Finalist, interested in drama, flute, and dance as “extracurriclar activities”, and likes to form close relationships. She is from Southern California, will be living in the dorm for at least the first year, and will have a car.

So . . . some questions:

<li>How big are the undergraduate classes at USC and UCLA</li>
<li>How many classes are taught by professors vs TAs?</li>
<li>For a person who values close friends and relationships, does the “bigness” of USC or UCLA --or both schools-- impede making close friends.</li>
<li>Which is better in terms of future networking 10 - 20 years down the road.</li>
<li>Does the bigness of the school affect students getting their classes when they want it?</li>
<li>Is it easy to graduate in 4 years, or harder because the school is so big that you can’t get the classes when you want.</li>
<li>How easy is it to have your professors know you on a name basis.</li>
</ol>

Thanks for any info or opinions.

CubsRule · February 21, 2006, 6:47am

I can tell you as much as I know about USC...

<ol>
<li>Class size completely varies - I have a Chem 105 (freshman chem) lecture with a few hundred kids, and a writing class with 15 kids... Most of the time, the freshman/intro classes will have more students, and the more specific/upper level courses will be smaller. My freshman BME class had about 30 students, and my math courses (126, 226) have 40-50 students... I have never felt "lost" in a class because itss too big or because I cant approach the professor. All of my professors (so far) have been very welcoming and available to talk to any student...</li>
<li>All of my classes have been taught by professors, with TA study sections once or twice per week... (with the exception of WRIT140... that class is a wholle different story...). The professors teach, and the TAs review - thats pretty much the system... The TAs help students to understand all of the important material from the lectures.</li>
<li>My first semester, I had about 5-10 close, close friends that I hung out with daily... So its definitely possible to have the close friends/relationships... Not everyone parties at the row with hundreds of other students every day...</li>
<li>Cant answer this one...yet.</li>
<li>I havent run into this problem - and from what Ive heard, its rare at SC... If the class is that important to somebody, they can almost always find a way to get in.</li>
<li>If you dont graduate in four years, its because you switched majors/added a minor/went abroad/had some academic problems. The size of the school will not keep you from graduating in four years.</li>
<li>I am not the type of student to get to know my professors 1-on-1... but I have some friends that know their professors very well (first name basis), so its possible if thats the type of student you are...</li>
</ol>

tsdad · February 21, 2006, 8:18am

My son is at USC in film. He is in his third year. USC is substantially smaller than UCLA; it generally seems less congested when walking around the campus. He had a few problems getting some of his first semester, first year classes, but not much since. He hasn't complained about it. He doesn't care about class size one way or another. All of his classes have been taught by regular professors with the TAs handling things like assignments and class schedule. There were one or two TAs that he wasn't happy with, but no problems that appear to be systemic. He's not real interested in being friendly with his professors, but he has found that the professors in his minor, Peace and Conflict Studies, have been very helpful.

As to 10-20 years from now: let me say as a real old guy, who has already retired once and is in his second career, you will either been good at what you do 10-20 years out of college, and you will be hired for your skills, or you wouldn't and you wouldn't get the good jobs. When you are that deep into your career it will not matter where you went to college.

From my son's experience I can tell you that being in USC CTV is an instant entree into many internships in the film industry. However, as one participant at a parent weekend a couple of years ago said: USC will get you in the door, but if you're an idiot that's all it will do.

Having said that, USC does pride itself on the "Trojan Family," and with a huge number of alumni associations all over the world, <a href="http://alumni.usc.edu/clubs/us.cfm%5B/url%5D">http://alumni.usc.edu/clubs/us.cfm</a> and <a href="http://alumni.usc.edu/clubs/international.cfm%5B/url%5D">http://alumni.usc.edu/clubs/international.cfm</a>, being a graduate of USC could be very helpful in terms of future job placements.

intelliot · February 28, 2006, 3:48am

<ol>
<li>My classes have ranged from 15 to 150 students. It depends on the class, but I believe the classes at USC are smaller, at least if you do engineering.</li>
<li>My classes have been taught by professors with a TA leading the discussion sections.</li>
<li>As USC is smaller than UCLA, you definitely feel like you know the school better. Walking across campus is about 10 minutes and I see the same people often, which is conducive to better friendships.</li>
<li>As a freshman, I don't really know. But you'll hear about the Trojan Network. My dad went to UCLA for grad school and doesn't stay connected at all.</li>
<li>Never had a problem, though there are crowds while getting to the large classes in Taper (again, this depends on whic classes you take).</li>
<li>You can definitely get the classes you want, and if you don't double-major, minor, or fail, then you can easily graduate in 4 years (depending on your major).</li>
<li>Most of my professors know me on a first-name basis, especially those in the engineering department. The only professor I can think of that doesn't know me is the one for my economics course, which has 150+ students. My other classes have 50 students or less.</li>
</ol>

Tara251088 · March 2, 2006, 10:43pm

I'd love more replies to the 'mom of four' questions.

jbusc · March 5, 2006, 5:45am

I am writing this as a USC engineering student - and if she is interested in engineering@usc then I would highly encourage that she do that. USC has an excellent engineering program, and if you have an undergrad engineering degree from usc it is very easy to get a master's in engineering as well. They let you take common courses for both, and at the end of 5 years you graduate with both a BS and MS from the 7th best school of engineering in the country (UCLA ranks 16th). Only stanford university offers a comparable program.

*1. How big are the undergraduate classes at USC and UCLA

I would say the absolute biggest classes are the general education classes, which can have up to 200 at most. Most classes have at most 40, a few have as little as 10-20. Expect that freshman courses and senior(major-specific) courses to be lowest. Compare this to UCLA, most classes there are at least double or triple in size.

*2. How many classes are taught by professors vs TAs?

All classes except writ-140 (intro to writing) are taught by professors. This is a requirement - professors are required by university policy to show up and teach, they cannot have the TA's lecture for them. The only reason writ-140 is taught by TA's is because there is a strict cap of 15 students per class, so there are too many classes for profs to teach.

*3. For a person who values close friends and relationships, does the "bigness" of USC or UCLA --or both schools-- impede making close friends.

I can't comment on UCLA, but at USC the "bigness" helps more than hinders. There are a lot more people who are interested in the exact same stuff you are and mesh well with your personality.

*4. Which is better in terms of future networking 10 - 20 years down the road.

Again I can't comment on UCLA but for USC, networking is everything with the "trojan family". When you need a job, you can "network" and you find someone who went to USC (or even went to USC with you) and there's a connection there. People do it all the time.

*5. Does the bigness of the school affect students getting their classes when they want it?

Doesn't really affect it. It helps scheduling, because there are many different sections of the same class being taught, so you can pick the one when it fits your schedule.

*6. Is it easy to graduate in 4 years, or harder because the school is so big that you can't get the classes when you want.

Almost no one graduates late because they couldn't get into classes. Unless you're really lax in your scheduling so you have to take 3 or 4 required, full courses your last semester, you won't have any trouble.

Some engineering students graduate in 5 years, for various reasons, but if she has a presidential scholarship she won't have trouble completing in 4 (or even 3 1/2) years if she wants to, especially if she has AP calculus or AP history which complete a huge chunk of your engineering requirements.

*7. How easy is it to have your professors know you on a name basis.

Very easy, really easy. In fact, I think almost all of my professors I have ever had(over two years at USC) would probably recognize me or remember my name. This is largely a function of being interactive with them/going to their office/talking after class.

mom_of_four · March 7, 2006, 2:22am

Thanks for all the replies, you guys. As a parent, I sure do appreciate it ( I have this post on an UCLA thread too)
A few more questions for all of you. . .

<ol>
<li> D likes math and science, but is not sure what her major is at this time (although she has declared engineering for some of the schools that seemed easier to get into engineering from the start vs transferring into the engineering program later).</li>
</ol>

What help at UCLA and USC do freshmen and undergraduates get in choosing a major? Did you know what major you wanted from the beginning, and did you stick with that?

As I have told my D, she has time to choose a major. How can one choose a major while still in high school when one has never taken a psych class yet, or anthropology, or whatever--that is one of the reasons why General education classes are important.

<ol>
<li>Campus wise, are both schools safe , esp at night walking to and from the dorms being female. I realize that USC is not in a good neighborhood, however, D wouldn't live in an apt yet, at least not her first year.</li>
<li>Both are great schools. D is potentially getting a $5,500 UCLA regents scholarship (which would lower her cost at UCLA for tuition , room and board to $14k/year) and a $16k half tuition Presidential scholarship/year at USC (which would lower her cost for tuition , room and board at USC to about $27k/year). </li>
</ol>

At this point, we are seriously considering UCLA because of the lowered cost--unless D absolutely loves USC this weekend when she goes for her scholarship interview (then we would choose USC regardless).

Of course, if she doesn't get the UCLA regent's scholarship ( I hear 800 were invited to apply for the 100 scholarships offered), then the cost between the two are more similar --eg $9,000 tuition at UCLA and $16,000 tuition at USC. I am assuming she will get the half tuition schoalrship at USC. Any thoughts regarding that aspect.

<ol>
<li>Which is more conservative in terms of social and political conservatism, and in terms of drinking, etc. D is fairly conservative, probably not interested in frat life, and she doesn't drink -- will she stand out as "too different".</li>
<li>D enjoys the fine arts, and currently, does school and community plays for the fun of it--but doesn't plan to major in it. Any thoughts on which school would allow D to still be involved in theatre, dance, etc just because she enjoys it--without having to compete with the students who are planning to do theater or fine arts as their "life's work".</li>
<li>How hard is finding a parking spot? How expensive is getting a parking permit, and if you get one, does that guarantee you a space?</li>
<li>How much construction is going on at both campuses? Does the noise affect studying, or being able to hear lectures in the classroom? What new construction on both campuses has recently been completed?</li>
</ol>

That's all the additional questions for now. Thank you so much for your answers.

One last question for you USCers, any questions that D should ask during her scholarship interview this Thursday/Friday?

And assuming that D is a finalist for the regent's scholarship and get invited to a regent's overnighter, any questions that D should ask at UCLA?

Thanks again for your wise counsel...and civility.

jbusc · March 7, 2006, 3:42am

No problem, I like answering questions about usc...

*"1. D likes math and science, but is not sure what her major is at this time (although she has declared engineering for some of the schools that seemed easier to get into engineering from the start vs transferring into the engineering program later).

What help at UCLA and USC do freshmen and undergraduates get in choosing a major? Did you know what major you wanted from the beginning, and did you stick with that?"

I knew what major I wanted to be, but I still asked for and got help solidifying my choice. It is very easy to change majors and add double majors or minors, including in and out of engineering, but if she is seriously considering engineering I would suggest starting in engineering majors because of the extra services/support the engineering school provides to undergrads.

*"As I have told my D, she has time to choose a major. How can one choose a major while still in high school when one has never taken a psych class yet, or anthropology, or whatever--that is one of the reasons why General education classes are important."

Mehh, people even change their major in their junior year. While you shouldn't change too often or too far in (to avoid graduating late) it's not a big deal, everyone has indecisiveness and they can figure it out usually.

*"2. Campus wise, are both schools safe , esp at night walking to and from the dorms being female. I realize that USC is not in a good neighborhood, however, D wouldn't live in an apt yet, at least not her first year."

While the general 10-15 mile radius around campus includes a few "bad" areas, the area around campus is quite nice thanks to USC's community/neighborhood programs. I have never felt in danger on or around campus. Obviously though, USC is in an urban area, so some urban "street smarts" are in order. You can get plenty of info from the DPS (Department of Public Safety) on this.

The DPS is really great, even though some students feel that they're a little too tough on minor student infractions. When calling their emergency number, the response time is about a minute to anywhere on campus because the officers are always on bike patrol. Plus they patrol an area 3 times the size of campus, so the surrounding neighborhood is safe too.

As for special advice to female students, living on campus is probably the best bet. The usual advice of walking in well lit areas, in groups after dark, etc all applies. The external danger is really very small. Of course, the important thing for all female students to remember is that very often, sexual crimes are perpetrated by someone the victim knows (i.e., "date rape") which is a problem on almost ANY college campus, urban or no.

*"3. ...
Of course, if she doesn't get the UCLA regent's scholarship ( I hear 800 were invited to apply for the 100 scholarships offered), then the cost between the two are more similar --eg $9,000 tuition at UCLA and $16,000 tuition at USC. I am assuming she will get the half tuition schoalrship at USC. Any thoughts regarding that aspect."

Well, nothing is guaranteed, of course. But if she is up for the 1/2 tuition scholarship at USC, then chances are really good for the 1/4 tuition at minimum.

*"4. Which is more conservative in terms of social and political conservatism, and in terms of drinking, etc. D is fairly conservative, probably not interested in frat life, and she doesn't drink -- will she stand out as "too different"."

No, she won't be "different". Only about 17% of undergrads are primarily involved with greek/frat life, and an even lower percentage in science and engineering. I should say that USC has a very large international population of students, so many students' religions prohibit drinking (some christian and islamic students, for example) and people are generally very observant of people's desires to drink or not, if you're firm about it.

In fact, you can even select special dorm floors to be on where everyone on the floor pledges to be alcohol-free, drug-free, etc. I don't know how they enforce it, but it seems to work out. USC several decades ago had a really bad reputation as a frat/party/drinking school and there has been tremendous (successful) effort to clean that up.

There are plenty of very active conservative and republican groups on campus, and many different christian groups that range from conservative to apolitical if she wants to join some of those. While I would say that conservatives are in the minority at both USC/UCLA, they are definitely not considered "different". In day-to-day life people generally are very tolerant, as long as you're tolerant toward everyone else.

*"5. D enjoys the fine arts, and currently, does school and community plays for the fun of it--but doesn't plan to major in it. Any thoughts on which school would allow D to still be involved in theatre, dance, etc just because she enjoys it--without having to compete with the students who are planning to do theater or fine arts as their "life's work"."

I don't know much about these topics, but I do know that the dance program allows people to participate in everything as an elective only, if you want. You can always add on a theatre or dance minor to your major, which is very easy to do, and lots of people do so.

*"6. How hard is finding a parking spot? How expensive is getting a parking permit, and if you get one, does that guarantee you a space?"

Hahaha this migh be the one area where I admit UCLA beats USC. Parking is a major pain, it's not absurdly expensive but you might feel like it cost a little too much for what you get. You are guaranteed a space with a parking pass, in the lot or parking structure the pass is good for. It might be the spot on the roof furthest from the stairwell, but you're guaranteed one space somewhere.

*"7. How much construction is going on at both campuses? Does the noise affect studying, or being able to hear lectures in the classroom? What new construction on both campuses has recently been completed?"

There is always construction going on. It's never really been a problem, except if they have to close off a street and you have to walk around. The classrooms are well-insulated so only once has any kind of maintainance/construction work interrupted class even for a short while.

If you stay in the summer that's when all the major construction happens. There are new buildings just flying up all around, gorgeous new buildings. The USC style people have settled on a specific brick pattern and colors so now all new USC buildings have a distinctive "USC" style, which is great.

*"One last question for you USCers, any questions that D should ask during her scholarship interview this Thursday/Friday?"

Only she can really ask the questions that she needs answered to make up her mind, but I would recommend to show plenty of school sprit!! The scholarship people like that, if she is really excited about going to USC. School sprit and the "trojan family" mean a lot more at USC than at other schools.

*"Thanks again for your wise counsel...and civility."

no problem, you're welcome.

CotoDeCasa · March 7, 2006, 9:58am

fyi

<a href="http://www.newsroom.ucla.edu/page.asp?RelNum=6819%5B/url%5D">http://www.newsroom.ucla.edu/page.asp?RelNum=6819</a>

UCLA Raises More Than $3 Billion to Help Ensure Its Long-term Future Among Worlds Leading Research Universities

CotoDeCasa · March 7, 2006, 2:16pm

Just my thought

1920-1960

Berkeley(even better than Harvard) >>Stanford >>>>>>UCLA>>>>>>>>>>>>>>USC

1960-79

Berkeley=Stanford>>>>>UCLA>>>>>>>>>>>>>>USC

1980-1991

Stanford>Berkeley>>>>>>UCLA(Young)>>>>>>>>>>>>USC

1991-1997

Stanford>>>>Berkeley>>>>>UCLA(Young was bad)>>>>USC(Steven Sample was genius.)

1998-2000

Stanford >>>>>Berkeley(Berdahl was bad)>>UCLA(New Chancellor)>>USC( buy Students & Profs)

2000-2004

Stanford>>>Berkeley>UCLA>UCSD(Dynes was super)>USC(fund raising)

2005-2010

Stanford>UCLA>Berkeley>UCSD>USC

2010 ----

Who knows

UCLA=USC>Stanford=Berkeley>UCSD

Maybe

themegastud · March 8, 2006, 12:29pm

Right, UCSD which beats USC is no quantitative statistic whatsoever must be better than USC.

You're kidding, right?

tsdad · March 8, 2006, 4:00pm

My son finds the campus pretty conservative, but then again he's very liberal. He has cut back on his political activities to concentrate on school. He lives off-campus with a group of film students, and has a group of 10 or so friends, male and female, that he spends most of his time with. He belongs to a student-funded comedy/acting troop, which performs periodically in a campus facility, <a href="http://www-scf.usc.edu/%7Ebgh/%5B/url%5D">http://www-scf.usc.edu/~bgh/</a>.

He only receives a small scholarship so USC is quite expensive, but it is the best school in the country for him. He knows that the internships and the opportunities available to him have come because he is in the film school at USC. He turned town UNC, UVA (in-state), and film school at FSU to go to USC. It was a good decision.

CotoDeCasa · March 12, 2006, 2:35pm

be back in two years.

Final thought

west vs east

Stanford =Harvard of the west

Berkeley = Yale of the west

UCLA=Princeton of the west

USC =Columbia of the west

UCSD= Cornell of the west

Caltech=MIT of the west

and I think west is winning

MrTrojanMan · March 12, 2006, 6:57pm

wow somebody needs to give it a rest. find a hobby, pal. or a job.

acacia · March 15, 2006, 8:28am

UCSD would NOT be the Cornell of the West. Are you CRAZY?!

guidez89 · March 15, 2006, 8:55pm

If I had any advice about choosing between UCLA and USc, it would be to visit the campuses.

Back when I was a junior, everyone told me I should visit the colleges I was applying to, I though it was crap.

But, I did eventually go visit USC and UCLA. You can definately tell if you belong when you visit. For me, it was an instant match at USC.

As for academics and such, the schools are pretty well matched. It all really depends on where you think you fit in...

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want info comparing USC vs UCLA

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