<p>"and as far as the punishment goes - hes lucky hes not doing hard time"</p>
<p>You know something your right. Simply changing the number 2.0 to 3.91 is all that is needed in our condemnation of this heathen. The only way justice will be served is if this number-changer is thrown into an 8X10 with rapist, serial killers and child molestors. Why we let such vermon walk the streets with nothing but an expulsion and that slap-on-the-wrist $20,000 fine is beyond me.</p>
<p>"the fact is that he was travelling down the road of crime already"</p>
<p>Your right, this man was embarking on a twisted crime spree the likes of which this world has never seen. Forging transcripts, writing bad checks, stealing a shirt from K-Mart...how could we not place this man in the highest echelons of history's greatest despots.</p>
<p>How such a wily and organized criminal mastermind could go undetected is simply frightening.</p>
<p>is sarcasm just your thing? listen, its all white-collar crime, BUT ITS STILL CRIME. hes lucky hes not doing hard time BECAUSE HE PLEADED DOWN TO A LESSER CHARGE- he was facing a much more serious punishment! he was fined that much money BECAUSE THATS HOW MUCH YALE GAVE HIM TO ATTEND THEIR SCHOOL BASED ON FORGED DOCUMENTS!!! </p>
<p>we get the idea- hes not a murderer. he did, however, break the law, and therefore must face the consequences. its not like this was something he just "decided to do." the effort and foresight that went into this scheme proves that he had plenty of time to assess the risks and the consequences, which, due to his plea bargain, he in part escaped.</p>
<p>I stick by my motion of "poor guy". He was obviously a capable student who wanted to get the best education possible.. And if he got away with it for that long, he more than deserves to be in Yale. Poor guy pry gonna have a crappy life now.</p>
<p>"I stick by my motion of "poor guy". He was obviously a capable student who wanted to get the best education possible.. And if he got away with it for that long, he more than deserves to be in Yale. Poor guy pry gonna have a crappy life now"</p>
<p>I feel the same way...the guy did what was needed to get into a top school, got in, excelled and now after all he's contributed to the university, Yale is going to F him harder than an express train.</p>
<p>Its to bad, its not like he was a bad guy. I mean so he did a few little minor things while he was young, things that alot of people would call a prank...I mean come on petty theft, writting bad checks, aren't there bigger things in the world to worry about. To me this whole thing is a joke.</p>
<p>I think this act raises the even larger issue of competence in the admissions process; obviously, students who do not have a high GPA in high school can still make As at even the most high-caliber institution. I think this person's performance in Yale should ring alarm bells in the adcoms' office, alarm bells that they should seriously consider altering their admissions criteria.</p>
<p>Edit: Though I do sympathize with the individual who forged his documents, since I can see why he would engage in such an act, I do not find the act itself, in any way, justifiable.</p>
<p>"alarm bells that they should seriously consider altering their admissions criteria."</p>
<p>Don't you get? The Ivy's aren't centers for education, they are little clubs which are largely (more than 40% in most cases) based on genetic lineage to past club members. It has very little to do with actual intelligence. The SAT and the GPA are your criteria for getting to the gates, but if your dad or mom are members, than surely you to will become a member.</p>
<p>I know plenty of extremely boring people that have gotten into the Ivy's...I mean Harvard, Yale and Princeton. My ex got into Yale and that girl was f'ing senile DINGBAT! Truly one of the dumbest people I've met in my life, but her dad was a former member, so she got in.</p>
<p>This article doesn't mention it, but when this story first made headlines 6-7 years ago they said he was about to graduate WITH HONORS (3.85+ gpa).</p>
<p>I think the guy should be reprimanded but still let off the hook, ok, so what, he obviously has what it takes to succeed at yale, though I strongly disagree with his methond of getting there</p>
<p>ok sorry but he broke the law. he defrauded yale out of thousands of dollars, and what about the poor SOB who didnt get into yale because he was honest while this guy was nearly doubling his GPA on a forged transcript?</p>
<p>he "did what he needed to get into a top school?" how about this? EARNING THE GRADES. thats what im trying to do, thats what the other applicants try to do, and thats what the guy who didnt get into yale because of his blatant cheating did.</p>
<p>and check fraud is a "prank?" wrong. if its for enough money its actually a FELONY. aside from the fact that he basically got a slap on the wrist for the forging of multiple documents and defrauding of a college (probation and repaying the money they gave him- wow thats harsh).</p>
<p>oh and he wasnt just a teenager when he committed the crimes. the article is dated in 1998, at which time he was 28, and he graduated in 1995, which made him a 25 year old senior. so he was around 23 when he committed this ONE of his MANY crimes, white collar though they were.</p>
<p>as to nspeds point about the admissions process, i agree. there needs to be some reform if it gets to the point that someone can forge an ENTIRE application and not be discovered for 2 years.</p>
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Don't you get? The Ivy's aren't centers for education, they are little clubs which are largely (more than 40% in most cases) based on genetic lineage to past club members. It has very little to do with actual intelligence. The SAT and the GPA are your criteria for getting to the gates, but if your dad or mom are members, than surely you to will become a member.</p>
<p>I know plenty of extremely boring people that have gotten into the Ivy's...I mean Harvard, Yale and Princeton. My ex got into Yale and that girl was f'ing senile DINGBAT! Truly one of the dumbest people I've met in my life, but her dad was a former member, so she got in.
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<p>So you are not disagreeing with me, you are just widening the scope of my point: Ivy-Leagues should consider altering their admissions criteria.</p>
<p>On the controversy of legacy, I think Ivy's face a tough choice; since they are private institutions, the financial aid, scholarships, facilities and resources they provide are largely dependent not only on tuition, but on also on donations from loyal alumni. Do you seriously think an Ivy would reject the son or daugher of a person who has donated enormous sums of money? Of course not, they would lose one of their primary sources of income.</p>
<p>I have heard, however, that many Ivy's have enough money to sustain themselves even if they did not charge for tuition, so perhaps they already have an established financial base with which they can afford to reject legacy students.</p>
<p>By the way, these "clubs" happen to possess the best resources; I think that reason alone is sufficient to warrant applying there.</p>
<p>What do you mean by "reasources" because Adam Smith can be read anywhere and there are better places to be in the world than Upstate New York or Providence, Rhode Island.</p>
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What do you mean by "reasources" because Adam Smith can be read anywhere and there are better places to be in the world than Upstate New York or Providence, Rhode Island.
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<p>The late Robert Nozick was a professor of philosophy at Harvard; I have read numerous works by him and they helped significantly in my philosophical development. At Harvard, he would have actually been my professor; think of how much more I could have learned from him than a book on my shelf. </p>
<p>The professor example is but one instance of how many top universities possess a high-caliber faculty that are actively involved in their fields of expertise by publishing texts, engaging in research, and so forth. Moreover, these professors have a lot of influence in their respective fields, thus giving eager students better access. For example, it would be easier for a graduate in philosophy from Harvard to publish a text from a reputable press than a graduate in philosophy from non-ranked institution.</p>
<p>It is also worth considering the individuals who have visited and spoken at these top schools. If I am not mistaken, individuals such as Michael Sandel, Amartya Sen, Martha Nussbaum, Jacques Derrida, and Jurgen Habermas have all appeared at one of the aforementioned institutions. </p>
<p>What about the libraries? Is Harvard not in ownership of the second largest library in the world? That also counts as a significant resource. Non-students can visit, but only students can actually borrow books. What about Harvard Law School? Graduating from there would allow one to exert great influence on legal circles, and would provide flexibility in terms of what, when, and where he or she can practice, if they want to practice.</p>
<p>By the way, the examples provided above only bear a minute portion of what is available at such schools. There is a staggering amount of resources available at these schools, and if one is accepted and can afford to attend, I see no reason why one would not want to go (excepting familial, medical, or other mitigating circumstances). I am quite positive that if you were accepted with a full-scholarship, you would abandon your current convictions and attend it faster than one could say "college confidential."</p>
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Well duh...who doesn't want to go to college for free?
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<p>Okay, and confronted with a non-ranked institution that also offers a full scholarship, you would still choose Harvard. Your resentment of the aformentioned institutions and the fact that you would be willing to attend them demonstrates that your opinion of these schools stems from some notion of jealousy; your arguments, as I have proven, lack coherency and reason.</p>
<p>"Your resentment of the aformentioned institutions and the fact that you would be willing to attend them demonstrates that your opinion of these schools stems from some notion of jealousy"</p>
<p>No not at all.</p>
<p>I'm not jealous at all, I just don't think people should be banking that a) getting into an Ivy will create a happy and successful life or that b) not getting into these schools would spell doom for an individual.</p>
<p>Also when more than 40% of the incoming class is based on genetics, your going to be hard pressed to prove that this isn't a club.</p>
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I'm not jealous at all, I just don't think people should be banking that a) getting into an Ivy will create a happy and successful life
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<p>It depends on the individual; your argument begs the question of legitimation on the level of happiness.</p>
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or that b) not getting into these schools would spell doom for an individual.
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<p>Once again, it depends on the individual's goals and ambitions; I would argue that not getting into an Ivy-League school does curtail some options, though those options may seem insignificant in the first place.</p>
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Also when more than 40% of the incoming class is based on genetics, your going to be hard pressed to prove that this isn't a club.
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<p>1) You offer no evidence to corroborate this claim.
2) Even if I do buy this claim, you must refer to my previous argument where I alluded to the dilemma Ivy-League schools face.</p>