Warning to all Dual Enrollment Students

Applying to College
1

I feel the need to start a discussion thread to notify dual enrollment students of the potential ramifications of bad grades earned. First, let me start with a little background:

I was accepted to an elite dual enrollment program at the age of 14 via a local charter school and its affiliated college in my sophomore year. I did well the first two years, but suffered academically senior year. I was diagnosed with depression my senior year, and unfortunately received poor grades. Once I graduated, I began to take classes at a University and had a different mindset. I graduated cum laude and have received a Master’s degree with a 3.97 GPA. Now, I am applying to Law School. Unfortunately, as I am starting the Law School application process, I have come to realize that dual enrollment grades appear on your official college transcript and are held against you indefinitely. To add insult to injury, Law Schools base their admissions decisions on your undergraduate GPA- which is a measly 2.97 due to dual enrollment years.

I graduated with a 2.6 GPA from my high school in the top 30% of my class (believe it or not). It appears as though my pears, once A students, found that competing in a college setting against far more intellectually mature students, where grading curves inevitably did not work in our favor, as a nearly impossible feat. Hundreds of students over the years, who once held their dual enrollment acceptance letters with pride, have been shafted by the very program that promised hope and a future. Discrimination does not begin to describe how the system has treated not only me, but thousands of other students across the U.S. For example, AP students may earn college credit for their courses (classes taken in a high school setting with their peers) BUT they are able to choose whether these grades are plastered on their college transcript. If they didn’t do so well, then no sweat, it’ll be removed from your record indefinitely and there is no chance that it will come to haunt you in the future.

Dual enrollment grades have the potential to bar you from professional school. If you you see a Graduate Program, Medical School, or Law School in your future (or even if you don’t) I would strongly consider avoiding dual enrollment programs or pulling out if you are currently enrolled.

As I have come to terms with this devastating news, I have disclosed this to my parents. They were shocked and appalled that grades earned when literally a child are on my official college transcript and may bar me from Law School (or a decent one that is). When a dual enrollment student, parents do not have the right to access grades or monitor student progress. My parents entrusted my dual enrollment adviser to monitor my academic record and take the necessary steps to prevent life-altering damage to my record. The articulation agreement between my school district and the affiliated dual enrollment college stated that students who receive a GPA below a 3.0 must be removed from the program. Unfortunately, my adviser was negligent and continued my enrollment. I have contacted my Alma mater, who was dismissive of the damage their gross negligence and calculated parental deception has caused not only me, but my fellow classmates. Schools receive monetary grants commensurate with the number of college courses their dual enrollment students enroll in. It is my belief that this was the motivation behind, what I perceive as intentional negligence, and the reason these dual enrollment programs are exploding throughout the country.

Yes, I take full responsibility for the grades I earned. I also understand I was a child who could not understand the extent to which poor marks would impact my future. My school district and I entrusted my adviser to approach me, when concern should arise regarding my academic well being.

Simply put, is an abomination that schools discriminate against those who were ambitious children, whose grades fell by the wayside once placed in classrooms composed of adults. The system needs a complete overhaul. Unfortunately, those of us who have been wronged and would fight to implement change will likely never have the opportunity to do such as we are barred admission to the schools, programs, and opportunities that would provide a gateway to academic policy influence. For me, that gateway was closed a long time ago, long before I ever set foot on campus Freshman year.

Please carefully consider your decision to enter a dual enrollment program, and if you or someone you know is a kick-ass attorney, please feel free to reach out :). I wish you all the best, and what I hope is, a promising academic future!

2

Being judged by your actual performance is not discrimination in the commonly accepted illegal definition. So, I guess you are correct that it doesn’t describe your circumstance. Also, you statement about AP credits is incorrect. They never have grades on a college transcript. If you want to go to law school you should learn your first legal phrase “caveat emptor”.

3

DE is a touchy subject. It can be beneficial in the right circumstances. It can also result in stories like the OP. S took a few (I think 3 ) DE classes in HS and we were quite underwhelmed by three factors:

  1. The courses gave an undeserved GPA boost (S thought they were among the easiest classes he ever took in HS, not even close to the rigor of a typical AP class). However, they provided the same boost as AP, so many students, starting as sophomores, took close to half their classes via DE. This created weighted GPAs in the 7.0 range when kids who took none or few received lower weighted GPAs while taking a harder course load (in our area).
  2. Depending on where one lands at college,the credits may or may not be allowed. The state Us seem to take them which is great (maybe), so many enter college as a sophomore (again maybe great based on point 3). None of them were allowed where S attends (they were seen as part of the overall rigor of his HS transcript - ironically).
  3. The actual courses covered far less ground with far less detail than their college equivalents (again, just S's experience). He took Intro Econ in both settings (college wouldn't let him opt out of Econ) and would tell you the amount of work and depth in the college class was 2x - 3x , even with the foundation acquired from the DE version. I see that as a problem as many are able to opt out and are not actually getting that solid education. S would frequently comment that his DE teachers (not sure if they were profs or not) at the CC took a shine to the HS kids because they seemed more motivated and engaged in class. Class was mixed 50/50 with HS and regular CC students. Had to explain to him that the older students are typically part time, work, etc. They have a different level of motivation so the class moves at a different pace. I imagine the combination of a full schedule of DE and college acceptance of the credits might result in a lower level of actual education with a bachelors degree. Is this watering down the BA / BS?

I’m sure other will opine with vastly different experiences and that’s great.

4

It is certainly a tight rope. My D is a junior at a school with no AP or Honors classes. Their only outlet for rigor is DE and it is online only. She makes great grades but I can see one stumble could be disastrous. Especially when the advisor is disengaged and no one even monitors them while in that college period.

5

^That’s a shame. So she’s not really getting college quality in the DE class, yet she needs it for a GPA boost. Seems so contrary to what education is supposed to be about. FYI- when applying to college, some will only accept DE if taught live on college campus (CC). I know some kids who take DE in their HS, taught by HS teachers. Some colleges frown on that (rightfully so I feel) because it doesn’t meet the rigor of a college class taught by a qualified college teacher. Although as I previously mentioned, that’s also not necessarily a great situation.

6

Our high school only allows dual enrollment for students who can not pass the regular high school curriculum. In those cases, courses required to graduate high school can be obtained at the local community college instead

7

My dd’s high school was very upfront with us about DE courses, transcript, and grade implications. I’m very sorry that your school was not and this is coming back to haunt you.

I was also able to access my daughter’s DE grades. We had to set up her account that way but it was fairly straight forward.

One thing I want to clarify OP - did you go to the same university where you did your HS DE courses? If not, there would be two different transcripts, and with very different dates. I would think any grad program would put more weight on your college performance.

I just want to add my $.02 that our DE experience was very positive. Students and parents should obviously do their homework, but it can be a good thing.

8

I agree rickie, but its the only chance she has at real courses, she works hard and her grades reflect it. Thank goodness the DE is through University of Texas.

9

DE is not for every student in every situation, that is for sure.

In our Florida county, our community college (or state college as they are called) was very upfront about the potential downside to DE (potential future GPA impact being one of the major issues). Parents had to attend the meeting, etc. (at least I had to as a home-ed parent). The county school district has to sign off for home education students to verify that they are legally registered. There were other hoops to jump too.

When it works it is great. It was a great benefit for my kid… But it is not always the best choice, unfortunately. Sorry this has been the case for you OP. :frowning:

10

There is a similar discussion going on here: http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/2100569-bad-dual-enrollment-grades-ruining-future.html

Fwiw, I agree that DE isnt for every student, but it can be extremely beneficial for students who are beyond all appropriate high school level work. It can allow them to avoid early graduation and stay high school students.

11

I see the OP’s point. DD wasn’t told all the details. Her class was told (a week or two in) not to get below a C because it would affect their chances of financial aid at ALL of our state colleges. It wasn’t until just before the final that the teacher told them their score would have a curve for the HS grade, but the grade on their college transcript (same class, same test) would be their actual grade earned. Up to that point DD and I did not realize she would then have a college transcript in addition to her HS one. And it wasn’t until it was over and done that we confirmed the college DE transcript goes to undergrad colleges (separately from her HS transcript) and grad schools.

Fortunately it worked out for DD. She dropped band this year to take the second class in that DE progression, and is doing well again. DD’s HS does not give an honors boost to DE classes, even though hers is a challenging class. But she is doing it because she enjoys the subject and the teacher.

OP, I am sorry you didn’t have as good an experience. But be honest… at 14 years old… even if you knew the possible ramifications, you probably would have signed up for (and probably stayed in) the class anyway. High school kids, despite the stress and high levels of depression among their peers, do seem to be an optimistic bunch, at least when it comes to their own abilities and future. A very high number of them will underestimate the potential difficulty of any given AP class much less a college class that is, in fact, listed as such.

12

Combining the thoughts within the thread, I think the benefits of DE come down to a basic issue: What are you trying to accomplish by taking DE classes?

If the goal is to receive “free” (it’s changing in FL) college credit to knock out gen ed classes and reduce your time / cost in undergrad (typically State U), it’s a beneficial program.

If your goal is admission to highly selective schools, it doesn’t do much (no benefit over AP) and it doesn’t count for much (if anything).

How it effects GPA for grad school is a bit complicated.

13

@rickle1 That summation misses a segment of the DE population–kids who have surpassed all appropriate high school level course offerings. APs are limiting when discussing advanced students.

14

There are also small high schools with limited offerings and kids who can’t fit a desired class into their schedule due to conflicts with other required classes.

15

^ good points above. That wasn’t our experience or relevant to our HS. As mentioned earlier upstream, S found the DE classes at a CC to be far inferior in quality, rigor, student prep, etc. So it would not have helped an advanced student. It just simply exposed him to other courses not offered at HS (but they weren’t challenging at all). I’m sure it’s different in other parts of the country.

16

@rickle1 DE is also not limited to CCs. My kids have DEed at Us, both state flagships and directional Us. It has just depended on where we happened to be living at the time.

17

For medical and law schools, all undergraduate college courses, including those taken while in high school, count for GPA recalculations, as described on the AAMC and LSAC web sites. So a dual enrollment record full of A/A+ grades is a great preloading of a pre-med/pre-law student’s college GPA. But a dual enrollment record with B+ or lower grades is detrimental to a pre-med/pre-law student.

However, many high school students, parents, and counselors appear to be unaware of this fact.

18

My issue is not that I am being judged based on my performance. My issue is that for a majority of the U.S. population, their high school grades due not follow them indefinitely and are not tied to their transcripts, preventing admittance to professional school. I have no issue with the grades. My problem is that it is tied to my permanent record. AP students who earn college credit are not required to disclose these grades to MSAC/LSAC. They can include them in their GPA calculation if they WANT to. So, if they did poorly in a few classes, these grades will never come to haunt them. Can can pick and choose which to include. Regular HS students will have no record from HS weighing them down. It is discrimination when DE are held to different standards and are required to list every course in which college credit was received. They should allow us to at least pay for the courses in which we received unsatisfactory grades from our own pocket and retake them, and have the previous grade completely replaced on our transcript. Currently, there is no way out from under grades received when a child.

I am aware of the phrase “caveat emptor”- wrote a grad school paper on it. At 14, I didn’t though :wink:

19

Again, this is not discrimination. True that most high school grades aren’t listed on college transcripts, but these were college courses counting for both high school and college credit. It your grades were As in the DE classes, would you be upset that they are on your college transcript?

20

@mnsch1 Every student who DE in high school, and quite a few do, has to send those transcripts. It is not just applicable to you. It is not discrimination. It was a choice, a poorly informed one, but still a choice.