<p>Have to agree with NMR. I believe their own economic interests would trump "ethical considerations" any day.</p>
<p>MichaelNKat I can only say what an acting professor said to me. She certainly doesn't speak for the school. I also don't want to mention which professor spoke to me in fear of any retaliation against the professor by the administration.</p>
<p>Also , she noted that cuts did and do occur in both the freshmen and sophomore year ( in the past) and that symposium lecturers ( who are not necessarily from CCM) recommended more selctive cuts in todays economy if the department deems that these kids probably won't make it in theater. This does NOT mean that CCM will adopt this philosophy,but it does give the thinking that many musical theater and drama programs are considering, if not implementing today.</p>
<p>As for the argument about losing money if they cut too many kids, I think that is a very valid point. In fact, all schools at UC will be on a per person budget,which means fewer kids could result in less revenue. It will be interesting in seeing what CCM and other schools will be doing. Maybe economic practicalities will override their theoretical desires.</p>
<p>That was the point I was just about to make as well. The "urge" to the schools to really evaluate their kids and make potential cuts came from a speaker at a symposium. Just because a speaker speaks it doesn't mean that the schools will adopt the recommended policy. I think, until such time as a school makes a cut policy or revision thereof known, everyone can relax. Up in arms about whispers in the wind is the last place we need to be right now with everything else going on.</p>
<p>Also, I feel the need to point out the number of successful performers who were told, at one point or another in their careers, that they didn't have "it" and would never amount to anything. That's why I think it's best, within reason, to let the market decide who is employable and who is not. Wasn't Tom Hanks told to find something else to do? I also hear that Mary-Louise Parker was not the most well-thought-of student at her conservatory back in her day, either. Just goes to show.</p>
<p>I was told by an admissions director from CCM during a one on one discussion at a college fair on October 4, 2008 that the cut policy for CCM has been eliminated. Any students having difficulties passing their classes will be assessed on a case by case basis, however they are hoping this will be a very limited occurence.</p>
<p>NMR I used to have an entire list of those - a lengthy list. But Tom Hanks being told to give it up because he didn't have any talent as an actor remains my very favorite.</p>
<p>It seems ridiculous that a school would deem a student "unable to make it". First of all, to get selected into such a prestigious school would suggest that the student has as good a chance as anyone else to make it. It would almost suggest that their training would have to be really poor once they got to school to now be incapable of making it. Most of the kids entering the top schools have a chance at getting work before they even start college depending on the show and the job. The training they get just makes them better. I can't think of any reason a school would accept someone and then change their mind unless the student loses their focus and passion and that is a totally different story. If a school has a mandatory cut program that simply means they took too many and need to shrink the class, but to change a policy based on the economy and their concern for their students getting work seems absurd.</p>
<p>pohsmom notes,"It seems ridiculous that a school would deem a student "unable to make it". "</p>
<p>Response: I got the feeling that those that were cut at CCM didn't lack talent. From my discussions I think that they just didn't do the work that was required, didn't rehearse as much as necessary,didn't take to the training, or screwed up in some way such as doing drugs, becoming alcoholic ( both of which were mentioned by the professor that I spoke to) or some other personal reason apart from lack of talent.</p>
<p>taxguy, on this list and elsewhere, people have heard both "sides" to the CCM cut story. Some say that the only ones who are cut are those who don't come to class, have bad attitudes, etc. Others say that some kids who did go to class and worked hard also got cut. In any case, it's nice to know that CCM has decided not to continue its cut policy except in cases where a student is not trying, is not doing the work and so on.</p>
<p>The information given by the professor is interesting and could have been given at any time in the past 30 years. The business is brutal, the unemployment rate extreme. If this is the first place you have heard that, then I apologize. I defy any program to say someone "has what it takes" and the others do not. I completely agree with many of the posts here and would like to add this. Any program, anywhere, that suggests you WILL work as a performer when you graduate from the program is lying to you. As schools we offer training and education. None of us offer anything more than that. Ethically, we are committed to doing our best, and letting the student know what their weakness may be. On occasion that may mean telling a student that in the considered opinion of the faculty, the student may not be ready for a career in professional theatre.</p>
<p>I've had to say that to students before, and one of those is now on Broadway. </p>
<p>Act because you need to. The jobs were never easy to get or plentiful. This has never been a boom business and never will be.</p>
<p>Can't help but feel the urge to chime in, especially because the name of the thread is quite alarming all by itself :D, "WARNING:....". The 'sky is falling' comment actually put a smile on my face. </p>
<p>Anyway, I cannot agree more with what already has been said, but to those of you who are just beginning to read this forum, please remember most of the posts on this forum are personal opinions and experiences; some will be supported by facts & figures and may refer to the actual source of the information, other posts will be a recount of a personal conversation, presentation or information session. </p>
<p>Let's remember that we live in a day and age that no one is guaranteed a job, not even those with the fanciest of college degrees, it is what you make of it. Of course, some fields have a higher placement rates than others, and yes, we all know (hopefully) that performing arts is tough and unpredictable, always has been.</p>
<p>A personal story: after "pushing" our oldest (4.5 GPA) into Engineering, only to have him default to his passion 'teaching in underprivileged neighborhoods', our family has taken the position that each one of our kids can pursue their individual passion, whether that passion lays in finance, teaching, engineering or performing arts. However, each one of our kids knows that their goal upon graduating college is to be financially independent, self sufficient and that they will need to adjust their life style & money management accordingly. </p>
<p>We believe in living life at its fullest, living responsibly while at it, but to include those passions if you have them, as they will only further enrich one's life. Our D plans to support "living her dream of performing" using other skills she has. She is realistic about the odds, and we would not "dream" of making her study something entirely different for the 'practical side of things' (I will admit that the thought did cross my mind ;) at some point in the past). D is really the one that should be making those choices. </p>
<p>If you are admitted into an audition based program, you would think the adjudicators must have seen talent. Once enrolled, you are paying for your education, and you should be allowed to study and make the most of your potential. Then, as in any college situation, if you 'misbehave', you deserve to get expelled. This does not necessarily imply one has no talent, but that one lacks the discipline as stipulated in the "rule book". Should be that simple, in my mind anyway :D.</p>
<p>I wish I were more able to direct my kids to majors like accounting, engineering etc where the jobs are easier to find and salaries can support the kid. But, sigh, I am reduced to just hoping they get out with that diploma. That's all I am hoping regarding my MT kid. We'll have to look at the next step when it comes.</p>
<p>One of the greatest gifts we can give our kids is the encouragement, support and freedom to pursue their passions. There are far too many people pursuing educations and careers for the wrong reasons. Regardless of your area of endeavor, there will always be stresses, uncertainties and pressures including, for most of us, financial ones. It is the passion that you bring to your work that gives you the inner resources to overcome these obstacles and thrive.</p>
<p>When I was in law school, so many students made it clear that their primary motivation was pecuniary; they had no passion for the underlying philosophy of how we exist in a structured ordered society, for the social good that they could achieve or for the problem solving and conflict resolution opportunities that the practice of law presents. Now, some 30 years later, many of these same people feel trapped by a professional life filled with stress, find little gratification in their professional endeavors but continue the grind because they can not imagine any other alternative and believe they are trapped by their financial obligations. They are not happy and their professional existence is drudgery. The same could be said about so many people in other professions and lines of work as well.</p>
<p>I could not be more delighted that my daughter did not follow in my footsteps or choose some other "traditional" educational/career track (even though she certainly had the academic credentials to do so). Not because there is any thing wrong with it but because it would not be the right one for her. (My son is a different story; he is applying to law school and I couldn't be happier for him because he has discovered a passion for the criminal justice system and it is the right decision for him.) Do I worry about how my daughter will support herself once out of college? Sure I do, but I also worry about my son too in this regard. (Being a lawyer is not a guarantee of financial security, contrary to popular belief; it's not all L.A. Law or Boston Legal.) But I would rather have my daughter pursue her art than choose a path more convenient and practical but devoid of her passion. With dedication, perseverance, and creativity, I am confident that she will find her way. She may have to make some compromises along the way or readjust her horizons, but by being given the freedom to pursue her art, those decisions can be made with contentment instead of being borne out of denial of who she is as a person which can only lead to frustration and unhappiness. I would rather that she live her life well than deny herself who she is out of fear. And my role, as a parent to both my kids, is to facilitate the pursuit of their dreams and passions by providing guidance and mentorship, not dash them on the rocks of despair.</p>
<p>I'm laughing Michael. I met several people in law school whose goal was to avoid going to work. They had finished their BA and to avoid going to work decided to continue their schooling and applied to medical school and law school. They were in law school because medical school didn't accept them.</p>
<p>That is pretty funny. In a way, it's another angle on the lack of focus, direction and commitment in their lives. I wonder what they are doing now?</p>
<p>I just copied MichaelNKat's message and put it on my husbands desk! My daughter has such love and passion for acting and he drives her crazy(and me) about how she is going to need health insurance and to make a living when she gets out of college. She is a BFA at Tisch. I am scared to death for her but I would hate to take away her dreams, she loves it so much. I just hope it all works out for her and all the kids out there who love it so much.</p>
<p>Everyone, when I started this thread , I did NOT want anyone to kill their dreams. They should follow their passion. I just wanted to educate folks on what is going on. </p>
<p>I strongly believe that if a kid is that passionate about actiing, singing, drawing, performing etc., they need to follow that dream. However,.... do so with eyes wide open won't hurt.</p>
<p>Michael - thank you for your great post. </p>
<p>The story in our house is that my husband who is an electrical engineer just kind of fell into that field of study. While at boarding school in Scotland he was encouraged by teachers who saw his abilities in the math/science area and as he didn't really have a passion for something he studied engineering. I am an accountant for about the same reason. I didn't have a major when I started college, but took a beginning accounting class and thought it was ok and my parents said that would be a good major, so that is what I did.</p>
<p>Now we have a D (junior in hs) who is incredibly passionate about MT, with grades and AP's, etc. that could get her into any top schools to study in other fields. My husband worries about what will happen to her in the future with a major in MT, but our D is smart and already has ideas and plans for what she will do to support herself in her dream. Younger D (freshman in hs) has a passion for writing and wants to major in something that will combine this with her love of travel.</p>
<p>So as parents we have nutured and encouraged both of our daughters to follow their passions and see where that leads them in school and in life.</p>
<p>Just a note. Spoke to a mother of a former voice student of mine. She received a BM/Voice performance degree 7 years ago. After doing some singing and enjoying life she recently decided to shift gears and go into nursing. All she needed was 3 science classes and her BM degree is suitable to go for nursing school. Let's not forget it is still a college degree and who knows what they will do with it. How many people go to Law School and never become lawyers? (And think of what that cost...)</p>
<p>I know someone who received a BFA in MT in the late 1980s. Went on to perform on Broadway, work as a dancer teacher at a top MT program, and work as a director/ choreographer before deciding to pursue medical school. After one year of pre-med courses missed as a BFA undergraduate, was admitted to medical school and now is a successful doctor.</p>
<p>Making a choice to pursue theatre, art, music, writing, etc... in college does not mean that you will never be able to do something else if you change your mind later in your life. The education is valuable, whether or not you ultimately makes their life as a performer. </p>
<p>Many fields today require further schooling beyond undergraduate school. A BFA or a BM is a college degree that is a pre-requisite for pursuing an advanced degree, the same way a BA is. If someone with a BA in history decides to go to medical school they too will most likely have to take the pre-med course work they may have missed in undergraduate school.</p>
<p>In addition there are many jobs in the performing arts that are not performing.... directing, arts administration, teaching, casting, music directing , choreographing, etc... a degree in performance + on the job training &/or an advanced degree (in some cases, but not all) can make a shift from being in front of the audience to "behind the scenes" very possible.</p>
<p>Each person's path in life is different, and many times the life you imagine when you are 18 is not the life you want when you are 30. The education, experience, and training are all positives, whether or not you choose to spend the rest of your life in the performing arts. :)</p>