Was test optional, ultimately, a disservice to kids or was it the right choice?

I think it is wonderful that we are able to get highly educated Asians to migrate to the US…helps us stay competitive on the world stage I think.

For the colleges that you are referring to I do not know why they would not just try to strongly encourage everyone that wants to apply to take the AMC (and hopefully AIME, etc). I guess the downside is that the more that do it, the more will push for time accomodations and that is definitely one of the toughest parts of the AMCs for many.

I agree that schools are unlikely to make their own test, with the possible exception of the UC system. When I last reviewed, the official plan was for UC to make their own standardized test to replace the SAT/ACT at some point in the future, although it’s unclear if that will ever happen, with the COVID developments.

What is more realistic, is students at Caltech/MIT/Harvey Mudd/CMU SCS/… have the option to submit scores from specialists tests or various awards from competitions that depend on academic performance. For example, some of the schools above have had a spot on their application where students have the option to list AMC/AIME math score, which is completely different from the math section of the SAT/ACT, including having a much higher ceiling. Some students list their AMC/AIME score, and others do not, or do not take the exam. All of the above schools allow the student to list awards in academic-related competitions, including AMC/AIME among many others.

It’s also my prediction that if SAT/ACT disappear, we’re likely to see more tests, not fewer, eventually as their replacements.

I would be amazed if the UC system is able to design a test that results in the kids that are currently at the top of the SAT/ACT not being at the top of their newly designed test. Perhaps it will have an even lower ceiling such that everyone gets a very high score.

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What type of time accommodations are available for AMC, etc.? (e.g., time and a half, double time, taken over two days?)

It really doesn’t. When my husband was in our high school (yep it’s his alma mater), kids knew their rank every semester. Now, kids are conscious of whether they are taking enough honors classes to be at the very tippy top (maybe the top two percent take all honors/AP) but, after that it’s a blur of kids who take different types of classes and make their choices based on what subjects they like best etc. It’s a big school so there’s just no way to know if you are number 69 or 70 in order to make top decile unless you knew 70 kids’ schedules and all of their grades. Lots of kids in the top decile have some Bs. The school has really taken away that competition since there’s really no way to know where you stand and, historically, kids know that they can be in the top decile with some Bs and different schedules.

An optional math section, as the essay is, for those looking for selective colleges or math heavy majors could work, although I see Standardized testing fading away for awhile if not forever.

AMC stands for American Mathematics Competitions. It’s a series of tests that ultimately determines who represents the United States in the International Mathematical Olympiad. I expect special accommodations are very uncommon, although the rules do permit them, if special arrangements are made with the AMC office. Example questions from the 2020 test A are at Art of Problem Solving . The score distribution is at https://amc-reg.maa.org/reports/generalreports.aspx . Top 1% for “distinguished honor role” required a 123/150.

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I don’t know about that, but would be an interesting discussion for the thread on where tests are moving.

No specific knowledge of what is allowable but have heard some kids do get accommodations and it is possible to get them.

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First of all, only a small portion of applicants to these schools are participating in math competitions (AMC/AIME/USAJMO/USAMO/IMO). Many don’t because of lack of access, or awareness, or interest, or all of the above. Secondly, these competitions are time consuming and applicants may have other interests that conflict with the competition schedules. Lastly, these competitions are multi-year commitments. If a student misses a deadline for a qualifying test, s/he wouldn’t be able to progress to the next level in time for consideration by colleges.

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I am not aware that there are any time accommodations for the AMC series. At least I have never seen it or even heard it discussed. Time constraints are definitely an issue with all the AMCs and AIME, less so at the Olympiad level I think. The cutoffs would rise significantly if there was the same level of gaming the accommodations as with the SAT/ACT.

I know what AMC is thanks. Just didn’t know the type of accommodations were allowed. I agree with yearstogo that more students are likely to ask for these accommodations, just as they have been for ACT/SAT.

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Any competition has to have time constraints (it wouldn’t be fair to all contestants otherwise). However, the higher the level of math competition one enters, the less important the time contraint becomes. For example, for IMO, there’re only 6 problems with 9 hours to solve them over 2 days. The goal of these competitions isn’t about speed.

I guess getting way off topic but I do not think there are too many kids that do not participate in the tests that would do well on them if they did. It is not hard to get the tests offered at school. There is a fee that is not overly onerous but one needs a teacher to sponsor and proctor the test.

There is typically alternative dates to take the tests if you are unable to make one of the dates.

I’m glad someone cleared that up. I thought AMC was a movie theater chain. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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It may vary significantly from region to region, or school district to school district, but I’ve been told many who were admitted didn’t.

The AMC is given directly at the HS, in thousands of HSs in the US. At the basic public HS I attended, students in advanced math classes were encouraged to take it. By design, 95% of persons who take the AMC are not invited to take any further tests, such as AIME. So for the overwhelming majority of test takers, there is no prep, no significant time commitment, and certainly no multi-year commitment.

The exam is common enough among applicants for some of the listed colleges have had a spot to list AMC score on the application. Obviously not every applicant has access to this exam, but it’s also not the only possible academic related exam or competition one do besides the SAT/ACT. For example, kids who are interested in CS might participate in hackathons or robotics competitions. Kids who are interested in science might do Intel or other science competition. Instead AMC is an arbitrary example, among a countless number of options.

My kid is big into math, exhausted the math curriculum at his school, and attended a pretty competitive summer math camp. He had no clue about the AMC or AIME until it was just too late. Not a single teacher at our school mentioned or suggested the exams.

Once my son learned about them online, he approached our school about getting involved or hosting the exams in future years. His school had no interest. Honestly, I’m not even sure they knew what he was talking about. :joy:

So, exposure to these exams is definitely an issue at some schools.

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