I know you picked Texas as your example, because you’re very familiar with Texas. But using Texas as your example, may not be the best example. Aren’t Texas schools, except Rice and maybe others, I dunno, I’m not from there, almost entirely made up of in-state students? So, any drop in apps would likely be almost “invisible to the naked eye.”
Now, if Michigan, where my D18 just graduated, and where the mix of in-state versus OOS students is essentialy 52/48, had Texas’ abortion laws, do you think they would see a drop in OOS apps? In round #'s, Michigan receives roughly 10,000+ apps from in-state students and roughly 70,000+ from OOS applicants.
Fortunately UMichigan isn’t in the same boat as UTexas, being their respective public flagships.
Just to make one last point, even though I have nearly zero knowledge of either state , Kansas courts have protected some level of rights to an abortion and right now Kansas has a D for governor and Mississippi has an R for governor. And we’re in different times now, it’s very difficult to make comparisons to 5-10-15-20 +/- years ago.
I’m trying to persuade myself that State of Kansas, specifically Kansas State, could be an option for D21, if grad schools come a calling.
Yes, this is exactly how I feel. I am respectful of individuals’ choices on abortion, even if what they choose isn’t what I would choose. Early in my career I had 2 patients almost simultaneously who made very different choices about doomed fetuses. Both women were in their 40’s, both had children already from a previous marriage. Both had a fetus with the same incompatible-with-life trisomy and severe deformities. Both women were Christians, and drew from their faith to make their decisions. The first decided her goal was to give birth to a living baby. She wanted to hold it in her arms as it took its first and last breath. Her OB team did everything possible to make her vision come true. They monitored her like hawks. When her fetus showed signs of imminent demise in utero in the 3rd trimester(this trisomy has high rates of stillbirth) they gave her an emergency CS, and she got to hold her living baby for a couple of minutes until it died. She turned out never to conceive again, but she was at peace with her choice. My other patient, after consulting with her family, doctors and church minister, chose abortion. The procedure went smoothly. A couple months later she conceived again, gave birth to a healthy baby, and I have had the joy of seeing this child grow up. I was 100% supportive of both of these choices, and was very proud to be part of their care teams.
I want the same respect for myself and for my daughter (wherever she goes to college.)
Unless I am misreading you both, I think perhaps you and @gatormama are closer to the same page than it may seem. You are concerned with whether Kansas in particular is a place that will protect women’s rights regarding reproductive healthcare, and because the right has been held by the Ks Supreme Court to be protected by the Ks Constitution, and the people have refused to reject this ruling, the protections seem to be on pretty solid footing at present.
I take @Gatormama’s general point to be that, in other states where there is not already an established constitutional protection, the state legislatures can and will pass severe restrictions regardless of whether the majority of the population would support such measure if presented in a referendum. That is the significance of the Mississippi example.
For me at least, @Gatormama’s point is well taken. While the Ks vote provides strong evidence that “abortion abolition” legislatures are out of touch with the majority of citizens even in a place like Kansas, this should be of little solace to people considering school in places where state governments will nonetheless pass and enforce restrictive laws that endanger intimidate vulnerable women and anyone else who might aid them.
In other words, it doesn’t matter what the majority of citizens think in a state like Texas where one zealot can try to enforce the draconian Texas laws. It is the enforcement of laws (and the resultant intimidation associated with said laws) that potential students should consider, not public opinion.
I don’t think so - i.e. my Michigan-applying DD22 doesn’t think of Michigan as a red or purple state. That could change, I suppose if Michigan state laws change. Given the reputation of Ross and other programs at Umich and the proximity of metroNYC, I think families will think of it as an inconvenience.
Inconvenience? Well, I don’t agree with that sentiment at all.
Coming from the SF Bay Area, and an area in which many apply to UMichigan, minds would change, if the State of Michigan were to change. I know ours would too. Without any doubt in my mind.
But Michigan is still “fighting” about bans, but my point was and is that it’s still not Texas.
About Rice. DD did not apply but every year, a small handful of kids do from her STEM-focused school.
So, from CDC:
Rates of teen pregnancy among API contrasted with others - if you can extrapolate abortion rates from that.
Ethnic breakdown of Rice enrolled students.
Over 1/3 of Rice women (assume 50-50) are from an ethnicity 1/10th as likely to be pregnant as teens as other ethnicity.
I think if you separated out East Asians and South Asians (who dominate elite college enrollment among Asian Americans) that it seems Rice women undergrads are less likely to encounter the planned abortion situation.
@nyc10023, I know many of those UMC NYC families who think of this as an inconvenience and it makes my blood boil. Their kids will be fine bc they can buy their way out of any “inconvenience”–“too bad, so sad” for those who don’t have this privilege. It’s shameful.
I would love to know how many of these UMich undergrads from blue states, particularly the thousands from metro NYC, bother to register to vote in MI (or vote at all).
I’m not saying it’s the right way to be but out of state full pay is SO much money. Michigan is 75k/year! So if you follow the money and since the OT is if these students
will continue to apply, my guess is yes.
If I am honest with myself, in spite of my political beliefs, I would not have worried about DD should she have chosen to go to Michigan. Now if it were Texas, maybe, and I put that down to proximity.
Not sure if teen birth rates (from that linked page – i.e. not pregnancy rates) alone can be used to extrapolate abortion rates. Are lower teen birth rates due to (a) lower teen pregnancy rates, or (b) more of the teen pregnancies ending in abortion? Case (a) would suggest lower abortion rates, while case (b) would suggest higher abortion rates. It is also possible for both to be the case, with one being a larger effect than the other.
There are stats for abortion rates by race and ethnicity, but they typically throw everything besides White, Black, and Hispanic into Other, and some of them are contradictory (some say Other is very low, while others say Other is fairly high).
I would support voter registration rights that mirrored in-state tuition requirements. If you don’t qualify for in-state tuition, you can’t register to vote. Known transient population that can influence elections with no intent to be bound by consequences going forward. My son qualifies for in-state tuition because he went where he is now for a job. My daughter doesn’t because she went for school. To me, makes sense he can register to vote in WI but she cannot.
To me, wanting your kids (and others you care about) to be in a place where they have easy access to the high quality medical advice and care is not a “political statement.” Nor is it a “political statement” to want your kids (and others you care about) to be able to help friend in need without the threat of prosecution and/or civil action.
Would you apply the same reasoning to other known transient populations like many military servicemembers, other people temporarily in the state for work assignments, people with terminal (within the next few years or so) medical conditions or remaining life expectancy less than few years, people with planned upcoming relocations, including in-state college students who plan to leave the state after graduation?
The problem with this is then those voters are basically disenfranchised. Unless the student could mail in an absentee ballot for their home district, they could not vote at all. Many states are now limiting mail in ballots, so students would have to register to vote in the district of the college campus to be able to vote.
There was a great website about 10 years ago - I just spent way too much time tracking it down, only to discover it hasn’t been updated since 2016 - that you could input your home state and your college state and it would tell you where your vote would have the most impact.
For my kid - PA resident and WVA college student - the site calculated it made more sense for her to vote in PA, I guess b/c WV is too solidly red (same would hold true if it were solidly blue).
So that’s what she’s done ever since.
I so wish that tool was still around!
I mean, it seems easy enough for cases like ours, but it might be super-useful in more nuanced cases.
, Kansas courts have protected some level of rights to an abortion and right now Kansas has a D for governor and Mississippi has an R for governor. And we’re in different times now, it’s very difficult to make comparisons to 5-10-15-20 +/- years ago.
