<p>Please kk19131, you should really shut up. You are making it seem like ppl will get away with this. Do you realize that potentially someone could believe you and try it out for himself? Pssh...I was expecting more from a Northwestern student.</p>
<p><a href="originally%20posted%20by%20%5Bb%5Dtokenadult%5B/b%5D">quote</a>
I see from the other thread, kk19131, that you have an amateur acquaintance with the law, with emphasis on the word "amateur." I can trust onlookers to know better than to take your word for what they should do in their applications, so I see little need to reply again.
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<p>It is interesting that kk19131, however amateur, made arguments in that other thread that two lawyers apparently agreed with. Does tokenadult, who has described himself as having a magna cum laude law degree, know of any legal arguments against kk19131's point about the unenforceability (even in principle) of ED agreements against the will of the student, given that it's solely up to the college to determine what is "adequate" financial aid? Other users' amateur or professional legal opinions also welcome, of course.</p>
<p>Colleges that choose to do so can, and do, make mutual agreements among themselves not to offer admission to students who have not met the requirements of an early decision agreement with another college. I am not asserting anything in this thread about lawsuits, but I am asserting that colleges can, if they wish, decline to make an offer of admission to a student based on the student's breach of an agreement with another college. That is the main "enforcement" of early decision agreements, and there is no general legal principle that prevents colleges from acting in that way. </p>
<p>If I remember correctly, bearing in mind that College Confidential forums consist largely of self-reported anecdotes, there were examples of students denied admission subsequent to breaking an ED agreement on College Confidential forums during the last admission season. If there is a statement in this thread that such an issue has not been the subject of a reported legal case, then it appears that students denied admission on such a basis have decided it was not worthwhile to sue the college. I have no comment on why, or whether, a college would sue a student, because I have not been told in detail about any such case. </p>
<p>As a factual matter, it appears that many students who break ED agreements with highly selective colleges are still able to gain admission to state universities--precisely the kind of colleges they could have applied to simultaneously with making an ED application in the first place. But the OP in this thread is not asking about applying to a state university with "rolling" admission.</p>
<p>I fully agree that a college may rescind its offer of admission to a candidate based on the breach of a covenant with another college not to apply ED to more than one school (if it finds out) just as it may rescind an offer based on poor grades senior year. </p>
<p>This is still far from any form of specific perfomance remedy such as forcing a student to attend a college against his will or injunctive relief such as seeking to prevent his matriculation at another university. It is extremely unlikely that a college would prevail in these attempts. If the student can convince the second college (private or public) that the breach is in fact excused by the absence of sufficient financial aid (such as not meeting full need for instance), nothing would prevent that second college from admitting him.</p>
<p>Just to indicate where I stand here, I'm just responding to the OP's concerns. The OP shouldn't assume that reneging on an ED commitment to her School X will leave her completely at liberty to attend School Y. </p>
<p>Other replies here seem to be bringing up other issues that have nothing to do with the OP's concerns. I too have never heard of an ED college expecting specific performance (even of payment) from a student who pledged to enroll--doesn't every desirable college have a surplus of applicants? If someone has some case citations or some pleadings that are accessible by Web, I'd be glad to read them.</p>
<p>It's true that nobody will care AT ALL where else you got into college when you get there. You will be at whatever school and so will all of your classmates. That's that. I know where else VERY few of my college friends applied/got in/rejected. By very few I mean roommates, boyfriends, that's about it. Believe it or not, people don't discuss that stuff in college. They also don't discuss things like SAT scores. Hell, I don't even remember what my SAT scores were! I did know one girl who was always talking about how she could have gone to so many other "better schools" (which was ironic since I went to a top 5 university) and people found that pretty much the most obnoxious thing ever. Stop obsessing, go have some fun.</p>
<p><a href="tokenadult:">quote</a>
I am not asserting anything in this thread about lawsuits
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<p>kk19131 was discussing enforceability in the legal sense only, so given your legal training, your comments appear to concede that he is either right, or not obviously wrong in any way that Juris Doctorat Magna Cum Laude can articulate.</p>
<p>I'm sorry you don't understand these issues.</p>
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I'm sorry you don't understand these issues.
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<p>Exactly what issue(s) do you claim I don't understand, and what text quotable from my postings supports such a claim?</p>
<p>There are two separate arguments here: Will a university sue you if you don't matriculate after being accepted ED? AND Will there be other (nonlegal) consequences if you pull out?</p>
<p>While I can't say the first won't happen, I doubt it would. I can't see a university using its legal might (and expense) to convince a student to attend after he chooses not to, even in the case of binding ED.</p>
<p>The second, however, is more likely. Just because a university doesn't sue over ED, it doesn't mean that they won't try to enact some sort of punishment. Universities/LACs all over the country have formed agreements, much the way individual states do, that all will abide by the same rules. If ED policy is one of them (and I believe it is), all it would take to have all acceptances rescinded is one school announcing that Student A did not honor an ED contract. </p>
<p>As for lists, I've been told by several top administrators at more than one Ivy that such a list exists. It is not deemed collusion because of the signed agreement the student has to submit: to apply nowhere else ED and to matriculate if accepted. Those are the terms.</p>
<p>Just a thought...if your profile is truly ivy material. WashU will figure that you will go ivy and will waitlist you. See threads on WashU board for more data. If you REALLY want WashU, apply ED and show a lot of interest.</p>
<p>Momwaitingfornew:</p>
<p>The fact that a student signed an ED agreement does not mean he agreed to have any personally idenfiable information distributed outside of the institution he applied to, nor that any sharing would be any less anti-competitive under the Consent Decree all Ivies entered into which forbids any sharing of individual admission data. You can't be excused from Federal Antitrust law by mutual agreement. Harvard, Stanford and Princeton (which had an ED program) even refused to share any aggregate information with other colleges let alone any PID information with other institutions by not joining the 568 Group. </p>
<p>Antitrust laws would not prevent a college official from calling up a colleague at another institution to make him aware of an ED agreement a student is supposed to have breached. That is largely the sole recourse.</p>
<p>It isn't just the ivies that share EDacceptances. A number of schools do. Also a number of highschool counselor belong to a group that upholds ED commitments. The college that you jilt ED probably will not pursue the matter further, and if the college you do end up accepting if it does not subscribe to "the list" is not going to go snooping around, but your GC might squeal on you, and you can get your acceptance rescinded by a school that does not routinely root out ED contract breakers. Schools do tend to take reports from the highschools very seriously, particularly when it comes to student integrity, and most acceptances do have caveats. Your counselor will be very upset if you break ED, particularly if he belongs to that group and/or has many students applying to that school each year because even though a school may not go after you for breaking ED, it may treat future students from there unfavorably. It does reflect on your highschool and counselor when you break this agreement.<br>
Also, I have learned in my many years that this is truly a small world and there are many coincidences that occur. I've seen many tricksters get tripped by these coincidences. You may not be as anonymous as you think. There is such thing as irony in real life. I am not saying that no one gets away with breaking ED agreements without a good reason. I am saying that you can put yourself in substantial risk.</p>
<p>It isn't just the ivies that share EDacceptances. A number of schools do. Also a number of highschool counselor belong to a group that upholds ED commitments. The college that you jilt ED probably will not pursue the matter further, and if the college you do end up accepting if it does not subscribe to "the list" is not going to go snooping around, but your GC might squeal on you, and you can get your acceptance rescinded by a school that does not routinely root out ED contract breakers. Schools do tend to take reports from the highschools very seriously, particularly when it comes to student integrity, and most acceptances do have caveats. Your counselor will be very upset if you break ED, particularly if he belongs to that group and/or has many students applying to that school each year because even though a school may not go after you for breaking ED, it may treat future students from there unfavorably. It does reflect on your highschool and counselor when you break this agreement.<br>
Also, I have learned in my many years that this is truly a small world and there are many coincidences that occur. I've seen many tricksters get tripped by these coincidences. You may not be as anonymous as you think. There is such thing as irony in real life. I am not saying that no one gets away with breaking ED agreements without a good reason. I am saying that you can put yourself in substantial risk.</p>
<p>Okay. This convo needs to die. I love how kk just randomly hijacked this thread and turned it into a repeat of a previous ED thread ~ I think we need to start giving other advice to the OP now, since we basically all agree that she shouldn't renege on her WashU ED acceptance, if she gets one ^.^</p>
<p>You are right, Keshira. I can tell you that I have seen a trend in the last 10 years of kids who are top school qualified, choosing to apply ED to a school they really like because they want to get the whole process done, and don't want to be sitting around breath abated in the spring. Also, they feel, as the OP does, that their chances at a particular school ED are so much better that it moves from a reach to a match school, even a likely. Whereas the most selective schools remain high reaches even in the ED round. THe big question for her is whether she should "throw away" her chances for an ivy school for a significantly better chance at a school that is not her first choice but that she would like. That is a decision she alone can make. Since she is not sure and feels that there would be regrets in not applying to certain school, my opinion is that she is not a good ED candidate.</p>
<p>Wow, 20 yrs ago Ivy vs. Wash U was unheard of. Wash U had a May deadline b/c it was a back up for most who didn't get their first or second choices. As far as screwing the school over ED, just say you don't like the aid package you get in the spring, case closed.</p>
<p>Not a good idea for the reasons discussed repeatedly. You are taking a pretty big chance with big stakes there. An ivy will not just let you get away with such an argument, especially since their cost is comparable to that of Wash U. </p>
<p>I remember Wash U 20 years ago, and it was considered a fine school then. Not with the frenzy that it has now, nor the selectivity but so it goes with many colleges. Very few of us applied early then and we did not try to game the system with ED. We applied ED if it was our first choice and we had no interest in other schools.</p>