Wash U Seems Way Overrated in US News

Colleges & Universities A-Z Washington University in St. Louis
81

<p>The differences reside in the methodology:</p>

<p>WashU is ranked 11th in the overall ranking that takes into account of multiple factors.</p>

<p>WashU is ranked lower than 11th in most departmental rankings (except medicine/social work) which is based pretty much only on peer assessment (expert opinion). </p>

<p>That WashU "performs" quite differently in the two is probably one of the reasons there's this thread.</p>

<p>The former is based on an equation developed by US News that incorporates those factors. It's up to you to agree or disagree how much and if those factors matter. The latter is based on surveys given out to program chairs of many schools. It's also up to you to decide if the "experts' opinion" is reliable. </p>

<p>I do know I don't trust "experts" like Dick Vitale when it comes to his prediction of which teams would be in the Final Four. ;)</p>

82

<p>Oh lordy.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I already addressed the middle 50% SAT/ACT.... how do you so quickly forget?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's true, I think you said something along the lines "they seem to be ranked just fine." Well, that really doesn't support your point at all. Unless you're saying WashU's programs are just so poorly unranked that their extremely talented body of students is canceled out...and therefore they should be ranked a lot lower.</p>

<p>
[quote]
We already talked about program rankings... every undergraduate program we've talked about has been ranked below the #11 mark. (Biz at #12 and Engineering at like #43).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You nailed it on the head. So what's your point again? The rankings we've covered don't represent WashU as whole. So what was the point of you even saying this, if you acknowledge that we only talked about a small percentage of the schools/program. </p>

<p>
[quote]
In fact, I was the first to bring up the other rankings... you just wanted to mention Biz and PolySci, rather than mentioning all programs at the Undergrad level.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I don't deny this. In fact, I specifically stated to you why I only mentioned these rankings (hint, for the 50th time: it's because it's what I'm majoring in). It's not like I ever tried to hide it from you.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I'm not the one being rude. Second of all, I'm not the one who said the Internet as my excuse for being rude.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Huh? Your first point is wrong, as evidenced by the rude tone of your earlier posts.</p>

<p>Second, you missed my point completely when I brought up the Internet. Reezy-reezes-pieces, do you really get offended this easily? My point was that you should lighten up. You'll learn, don't worry. I believe in you. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Are you kidding? It's ranked #11 for UNDERGRADUATE.... that's what we've been talking about. Where you been?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'll give you this one. I think it's the only point you've effectively refuted of mine, albeit a little late. However, I anticipated this and I also said right after your quote of me:</p>

<p>
[quote]
In addition, I wasn't referring merely to the medical school, I was referring to various undergrad programs taken at Wash U in preparation for med school (biochemistry or whatever).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>No, you didn't selectively quote; you merely forgot to quote the rest of my point.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Just because you "demonstrated" your points, doesn't mean they are right to everyone else... it simply means you can justify them in your head.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Good observation, ole' chap. (Please don't respond to me: "I'm not your ole' chap. I don't even know you.") I never would have known that had you not pointed it out. That's why hardcore Democrats and Republicans continue debate even when they know they'll never change the other's opinion. It's to spread the good word, buddy (did you just shiver?). </p>

<p>
[quote]
You want to talk statistics and as you said "quality of student"</p>

<p>Why is that WashU ranks #15 in terms of % in top 10% of HS class.... I think GPA shows a lot more than SAT.... most adcoms agree. And #15 in Actual Graduation Rate.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Is that underlined portion part of your "statistics"? Ya know, 4 out of 5 clowns agree that your statistics are complete BS. I actually disagree with you there, slightly. This isn't a case of black and white, as much as you'd like it to be. It depends on a case to case basis.</p>

<p>Example: I come from Arkansas. There are something like 300+ school districts here--more than any other state per capita. There are several schools that offer Trigonometry as the highest course. Trig! These schools are a joke (I used to attend one) and getting a 4.0 was commonplace. No homework and very little classwork. If you come from one of these schools, you might as well put you also have "two hands and feet" on your application. That's where standardized scores come in. If a student truly is intelligent, it will usually show on standardized scores at least somewhat. Conversely, a student who is intelligent but comes from one of these schools might score lower because of poorer schooling. That's why I say it should be determined on a case by case basis which is more meritorious.</p>

<p>
[quote]
That's ironic. After all I read from you was "wha wha wha you are ignoring my posts wha wha wha." You again take what people say and throw it out the window. I clearly said I don't care about what WashU is ranked.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You also clearly said: </p>

<p>
[quote]
I would personally rank it between 20-25 on US News... not #11. It's still a great school, but don't pretend its one of the elites.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>...and then clearly spent the remainder of the thread defending your position.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Just like you will only accept that people who think WashU is overrated are rejected/deffered, you think that I care about WashU's ranking. What I do care about is the fallacy of your statements when you connect rejection from WashU with thinking WashU is overrated. If anything, these people would think WashU is overrated because if their "amazing" stats didn't get them in, it must be really really really competitive. That's all that started this.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Wow. This part really steamed me, I'll admit. You made this same claim earlier, and I showed you my posts showing that this was not the case. I was NOT saying all people who disagree with WashU's rankings were rejected/waitlisted, so stop DISTORTING it this way. Let's revisit my response to your initial claim that I was saying everyone who thinks Wash U.

[quote]
</p>

<p>And remember when I said this:</p>

<p>
[quote]

"I didn't like that you ASSUMED all the people saying WashU is overrated are rejects/waitlists. You have to realize that it's possible to hold opinions outside of personal interests."</p>

<p>That's a fair assessment (second sentence), but I never made that claim for everyone. I can read multiple threads (yes, really!), use my multitasking skills, and see that these are the same people who got rejected and bashed Wash. U. purposelessly on another thread.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's right! I actually agreed with you! But yet, you're still arguing like I think everyone who bashes WashU got rejected. Congratulations boy, you have the debate skills of Bill O Reilly.</p>

<p>In fact, just for sh-ts and giggles, let me bring up another quote of mine where I made it clear that I don't believe what you're trying to say I believe. (Because clearly, your argument falls apart when you acknowledge that I did NOT make that vast "generalization" you're talking about):</p>

<p>
[quote]

"A bunch of the informed adults/college kids on this forum who are in no way affiliated with WashU will tell you the same thing."</p>

<p>I don't refute that. Just as there are those who think Duke or whatever is overrated. I just think it's ill-conceived.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Had enough fact checking?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>So tell me Reeze, why do you keep on making the same claim, when I clearly said that not everyone who thinks WashU is overranked was rejected/waitlisted? Is it because your argument is weak? Perhaps. </p>

<p>I did however, state that a lot of the people who were bashing Wash U also were rejected/waitlisted. You claimed this was merely coincidence, while I maintain there is a relationship between the two. Really, are you going to deny that the two have any connections at all? So, you're saying, these people just happened to get rejected/waitlisted on the exact same day that they started bashing WashU?</p>

<h2> I've agreed with you on points when you were right (for example when I said that not all people who think WashU is overranked was rejected/waitlisted....oddly, you keep attacking me as if I think it's true), but clearly your "bs meter" has a selective memory. So when are you going to stop attacking me for things that aren't true?</h2>

<p>That said, we'll never agree with each other. I'm ready to put up when you are, and I'm ready to keep debating when you are. I'm sure other people are sick of this, and I'll admit I am too.</p>

83

<p>
[quote]
Oh lordy.</p>

<p>Quote:
I already addressed the middle 50% SAT/ACT.... how do you so quickly forget? </p>

<p>That's true, I think you said something along the lines "they seem to be ranked just fine." Well, that really doesn't support your point at all. Unless you're saying WashU's programs are just so poorly unranked that their extremely talented body of students is canceled out...and therefore they should be ranked a lot lower.</p>

<p>Quote:
We already talked about program rankings... every undergraduate program we've talked about has been ranked below the #11 mark. (Biz at #12 and Engineering at like #43). </p>

<p>You nailed it on the head. So what's your point again? The rankings we've covered don't represent WashU as whole. So what was the point of you even saying this, if you acknowledge that we only talked about a small percentage of the schools/program. </p>

<p>Quote:
In fact, I was the first to bring up the other rankings... you just wanted to mention Biz and PolySci, rather than mentioning all programs at the Undergrad level. </p>

<p>I don't deny this. In fact, I specifically stated to you why I only mentioned these rankings (hint, for the 50th time: it's because it's what I'm majoring in). It's not like I ever tried to hide it from you.</p>

<p>Quote:
I'm not the one being rude. Second of all, I'm not the one who said the Internet as my excuse for being rude. </p>

<p>Huh? Your first point is wrong, as evidenced by the rude tone of your earlier posts.</p>

<p>Second, you missed my point completely when I brought up the Internet. Reezy-reezes-pieces, do you really get offended this easily? My point was that you should lighten up. You'll learn, don't worry. I believe in you. </p>

<p>Quote:
Are you kidding? It's ranked #11 for UNDERGRADUATE.... that's what we've been talking about. Where you been? </p>

<p>I'll give you this one. I think it's the only point you've effectively refuted of mine, albeit a little late. However, I anticipated this and I also said right after your quote of me:</p>

<p>Quote:
In addition, I wasn't referring merely to the medical school, I was referring to various undergrad programs taken at Wash U in preparation for med school (biochemistry or whatever). </p>

<p>No, you didn't selectively quote; you merely forgot to quote the rest of my point.</p>

<p>Quote:
Just because you "demonstrated" your points, doesn't mean they are right to everyone else... it simply means you can justify them in your head. </p>

<p>Good observation, ole' chap. (Please don't respond to me: "I'm not your ole' chap. I don't even know you.") I never would have known that had you not pointed it out. That's why hardcore Democrats and Republicans continue debate even when they know they'll never change the other's opinion. It's to spread the good word, buddy (did you just shiver?). </p>

<p>Quote:
You want to talk statistics and as you said "quality of student"</p>

<p>Why is that WashU ranks #15 in terms of % in top 10% of HS class.... I think GPA shows a lot more than SAT.... most adcoms agree. And #15 in Actual Graduation Rate. </p>

<p>Is that underlined portion part of your "statistics"? Ya know, 4 out of 5 clowns agree that your statistics are complete BS. I actually disagree with you there, slightly. This isn't a case of black and white, as much as you'd like it to be. It depends on a case to case basis.</p>

<p>Example: I come from Arkansas. There are something like 300+ school districts here--more than any other state per capita. There are several schools that offer Trigonometry as the highest course. Trig! These schools are a joke (I used to attend one) and getting a 4.0 was commonplace. No homework and very little classwork. If you come from one of these schools, you might as well put you also have "two hands and feet" on your application. That's where standardized scores come in. If a student truly is intelligent, it will usually show on standardized scores at least somewhat. Conversely, a student who is intelligent but comes from one of these schools might score lower because of poorer schooling. That's why I say it should be determined on a case by case basis which is more meritorious.</p>

<p>Quote:
That's ironic. After all I read from you was "wha wha wha you are ignoring my posts wha wha wha." You again take what people say and throw it out the window. I clearly said I don't care about what WashU is ranked. </p>

<p>You also clearly said: </p>

<p>Quote:
I would personally rank it between 20-25 on US News... not #11. It's still a great school, but don't pretend its one of the elites. </p>

<p>...and then clearly spent the remainder of the thread defending your position.</p>

<p>Quote:
Just like you will only accept that people who think WashU is overrated are rejected/deffered, you think that I care about WashU's ranking. What I do care about is the fallacy of your statements when you connect rejection from WashU with thinking WashU is overrated. If anything, these people would think WashU is overrated because if their "amazing" stats didn't get them in, it must be really really really competitive. That's all that started this. </p>

<p>Wow. This part really steamed me, I'll admit. You made this same claim earlier, and I showed you my posts showing that this was not the case. I was NOT saying all people who disagree with WashU's rankings were rejected/waitlisted, so stop DISTORTING it this way. Let's revisit my response to your initial claim that I was saying everyone who thinks Wash U.</p>

<p>Quote:</p>

<p>And remember when I said this:</p>

<p>Quote:
"I didn't like that you ASSUMED all the people saying WashU is overrated are rejects/waitlists. You have to realize that it's possible to hold opinions outside of personal interests."</p>

<p>That's a fair assessment (second sentence), but I never made that claim for everyone. I can read multiple threads (yes, really!), use my multitasking skills, and see that these are the same people who got rejected and bashed Wash. U. purposelessly on another thread. </p>

<p>That's right! I actually agreed with you! But yet, you're still arguing like I think everyone who bashes WashU got rejected. Congratulations boy, you have the debate skills of Bill O Reilly.</p>

<p>In fact, just for sh-ts and giggles, let me bring up another quote of mine where I made it clear that I don't believe what you're trying to say I believe. (Because clearly, your argument falls apart when you acknowledge that I did NOT make that vast "generalization" you're talking about):</p>

<p>Quote:
"A bunch of the informed adults/college kids on this forum who are in no way affiliated with WashU will tell you the same thing."</p>

<p>I don't refute that. Just as there are those who think Duke or whatever is overrated. I just think it's ill-conceived. </p>

<p>Had enough fact checking? </p>

<p>So tell me Reeze, why do you keep on making the same claim, when I clearly said that not everyone who thinks WashU is overranked was rejected/waitlisted? Is it because your argument is weak? Perhaps. </p>

<p>I did however, state that a lot of the people who were bashing Wash U also were rejected/waitlisted. You claimed this was merely coincidence, while I maintain there is a relationship between the two. Really, are you going to deny that the two have any connections at all? So, you're saying, these people just happened to get rejected/waitlisted on the exact same day that they started bashing WashU?</p>

<h2>I've agreed with you on points when you were right (for example when I said that not all people who think WashU is overranked was rejected/waitlisted....oddly, you keep attacking me as if I think it's true), but clearly your "bs meter" has a selective memory. So when are you going to stop attacking me for things that aren't true?</h2>

<p>That said, we'll never agree with each other. I'm ready to put up when you are, and I'm ready to keep debating when you are. I'm sure other people are sick of this, and I'll admit I am too.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Nope.</p>

<p>I'm glad you finally admit "not all people who think WashU is overranked was rejected/waitlisted."</p>

<p>That's all I needed to hear. Like I said, I don't care whether WashU is overrranked or underranked... just learn not to make sweeping generalizations. I wasn't the only one who picked up on (go back and read beggining of thread).</p>

84

<p>hahaha. Whatever, I never said that............ but yeah I'm done. I need to spend my time applying scholarships now since Wash U will make me poor(er).</p>

<p>Once again, here are the quotes where I clearly never said that all people who think Wash U is overranked were rejected/waitlisted.</p>

<p>
[quote]

And remember when I said this:</p>

<p>
[quote]

"I didn't like that you ASSUMED all the people saying WashU is overrated are rejects/waitlists. You have to realize that it's possible to hold opinions outside of personal interests."</p>

<p>That's a fair assessment (second sentence), but I never made that claim for everyone. I can read multiple threads (yes, really!), use my multitasking skills, and see that these are the same people who got rejected and bashed Wash. U. purposelessly on another thread.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's right! I actually agreed with you! But yet, you're still arguing like I think everyone who bashes WashU got rejected. Congratulations boy, you have the debate skills of Bill O Reilly.</p>

<p>In fact, just for sh-ts and giggles, let me bring up another quote of mine where I made it clear that I don't believe what you're trying to say I believe. (Because clearly, your argument falls apart when you acknowledge that I did NOT make that vast "generalization" you're talking about):</p>

<p>
[quote]

"A bunch of the informed adults/college kids on this forum who are in no way affiliated with WashU will tell you the same thing."</p>

<p>I don't refute that. Just as there are those who think Duke or whatever is overrated. I just think it's ill-conceived.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Had enough fact checking?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Now I'm done. Just learn to not make fallacious claims.</p>

85

<p>If Kharma exists Reeze and johnnydr87 will be roommates next year. LOL</p>

86

<p>Funny :'-(</p>

<p>Or if a mischievious admissions rep reads these boards....</p>

87

<p>I think you guys would have tons of fun together! You know, you are allowed to pick your roomate at Wash U!</p>

88

<p>The argument about WUSTL beng "overrated" are nothing other than an individual's own bias comparison to the US News ratings. Those ratings have survived criticism approaching ridicule over the years. Meanwhile, comparable ratings place WUSTL in the top 15-20, if not 10-15, consistently.
But how about the really important criterion--endowment. Follow the money--that's what pays the teacher salaries, builds new dorms, pays for social clubs and athletics, and sustains a future reputation. WUSTL is in the top ten nationally--end of story.</p>

89

<p>I'm going to take a wild guess and say Blankman either wasn't accepted, or has some sort of grudge. Chill it, Blank. It's not necessary here.</p>

90

<p>
[quote]
If Kharma exists Reeze and johnnydr87 will be roommates next year. LOL

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'd have no problem rooming with him... I think we'd have some all night discussions... many of them.</p>

91

<p>eureka10: Thanks for clearing that up. Are you a future WashU student?</p>

92

<p>WashU < U Wisconsin</p>

93

<p>This is absolutely hilarious. It's impossible to "prove" whether or not the damn school is overrated, so why don't we all just shut up and enjoy some rum and Coke?</p>

94

<p>washu hiring a PR firm to decrease acceptance rate...not cool.</p>

95

<p>I love how all the people WashU bashing have little to no real substance to their argument. Thanks for your thought out contribution, Bobbobbob.</p>

96

<p>From US News: </p>

<p>
[quote]
Student selectivity (15 percent). A school's academic atmosphere is determined in part by the abilities and ambitions of the student body. We therefore factor in test scores of enrollees on the SAT or ACT tests (50 percent of the selectivity score); the proportion of enrolled freshmen who graduated in the top 10 percent of their high school classes for all national universities and liberal arts colleges, and the top 25 percent for institutions in the master's and comprehensive colleges categories (40 percent); and the acceptance rate, or the ratio of students admitted to applicants (10 percent). The data are for the fall 2004 entering class.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>if wash u is trying to increase yield by rejecting qualified candidates, they are doing it to increse 10% of a score that counts for only 15% of their total ranking. that wouldn't be too smart.</p>

<p>NO PARKING ON MY LAWN</p>

<p>-Mario Vaz</p>

<hr>

<p>DO YOU WANT TO TRY IT?!?!?!?</p>

97

<p>MYYYYY GOD.</p>

<p>This is arguably the most ludicrous load of bickering CRAP that I've ever witnessed. (And I am the middle child in a house of 3 girls, so I tend to consider myself familiar with the field). By copying and pasting--and at the peak points, REpasting--one another's erroneous claims about the placement of a GOOD (face it) school on some provincial list is NOT WORTH IT.</p>

<p>That's why there are numerous ranking systems, and moreso, that's why they shouldn't be paid much mind. When all is said and done, whether Washu was #11 or #20 or whatever alternative numbers were thrown around in this thread won't matter at all to the undergrad experience. What those numbers DO provide is substanceless matter for people like you to waste time arguing about.</p>

<p>I don't know about you, but retail therapy always seemed to mend my sisterly disputes. Whatever you choose, how about accepting the ole "to each his own" motto and doing something constructive! alright!</p>

98

<p>Maybe threatening to call the school and urge them to rescind a decision or two would do the trick.</p>

99

<br>


<br>

100

<p>Let me offer you kiddies a better perspective:</p>

<p>Most of the schools in the top 25 (and specific schools past the top 25) will offer education of a similar, VERY HIGH quality. This includes WUSTL. It is stupid to say Harvard give a better education than Georgetown or Chicago. It is also relatively useless to say that WUSTL is "overrated" in the traditional sense because all of these schools give a great education. It is also impractical to say that you should choose WUSTL over Gtown because it has a slightly higher rank. This is the problem of American society--a fixation with lists and "number one." The US News number rankings should be treated like McDonald's food--eat it once in a while when you want to, but don't go overboard or you'll end up in trouble. DO NOT base your college decisions on a flawed system--base your decisions on where you feel you will fit in the best and benefit the most from the programs there. </p>

<p>That being said, WUSTL is very well known for manipulating its rankings. If you do not believe me, pull out your 2004 US News and find the article describing why WUSTL is a "hottie"--admissions manipulation and "reaching the students" are some of the key phrases. My science teacher actually went around the room asking if anyone was interested in WUSTL--I am kind of glad I did not sign up as I would have probably gotten TONS of mail. The waitlist tactic is not just a rumor--if you go to your previous grade's stats you will see that WUSTL waitlists the most applicants out of the top schools. It is understandable that the admissions committee wants to compete with the Ivies as there is no concrete reason why WUSTL should be below the other schools in rankings. And admissions is playing dirty to increase their ranking. So cry about it. In the end it affects very little, unless you are one of the idiots swayed by WUSTL's high ranking (and I don't mean those who had WUSTL as a safety or reach). If so, then you don't deserve to be in a good college anyway.</p>

<p>In terms of prestige, WUSTL is still rather behind. For more info look at the preferred rankings system paper that was published a while ago and edited recently. WUSTL is markedly low on the list as compared with the US News rankings. Perhaps that is why their yield is 30%</p>