<p>Making</a> room for Virginia's brightest in its best schools</p>
<p>An interesting article in the paper today...</p>
<p>Reactions?</p>
<p>A 1300 SAT from NOVA? Really, that is the best kid they can find?
Anyways, I think the article presented all sides pretty well. OOS students already pay “triple the cost” here and yet some legislators want to turn it into UMich where OOS students are all rich and create a divide in the student body like that (the article makes it sound as if that already exists!). I don’t think the student’s mother considered the fact that it is one of the best public universities in the country and the people who are attending instead of him had better stats (like, all of the OOS non tax paying students as well as the in state taxpayers), instead she thinks her taxes should admit her son to a fine university just for that, for generally good academic performance (that is why he got into Tech, which is also a fine school). UVA has huge admissions problems to combat, like the disparity around various parts of the state, let alone kids like this.</p>
<p>And some wonder why public universities “don’t get the respect they deserve”. If your kid is not admitted, contact your state legislator and get him admitted.</p>
<p>The same bill is introduced by the same state reps each year. A form of this article has been written every year. If you look back to College Confidential threads posted around this time in past years, you’ll probably find similar versions of this thread, too.</p>
<p>You can follow the bill here:
[Richmond</a> Sunlight 2011 Higher educational institutions; board of visitors set rules so 75% enrolled be Virginia domiciles. (HB2053)](<a href=“http://www.richmondsunlight.com/bill/2011/hb2053/]Richmond”>Richmond Sunlight » 2011 » Higher educational institutions; board of visitors set rules so 75% enrolled be Virginia domiciles. (HB2053))</p>
<p>I’ll repeat what I have thought from the beginning. </p>
<p>1) I find the use of GPAs in these articles extremely short sighted. GPAs in many parts of the state are hitting 4.5 and sometimes higher. What’s more, there are schools in this state that are doing some very interesting things with weighting these days. There are schools where all advanced courses are getting the same weight (Honors, AP, IB, and AICE). The GPAs at these schools are often packed tightly together. </p>
<p>2) As someone who did not grow up in Virginia, I’m stunned that people say they are “shut out” of a great education in the Commonwealth if they do not make it into UVa or W&M. There are 15 four year, public colleges in this state and 24 two year options. We did not have these kinds of options where I grew up. </p>
<p>3) The talk about students from NY, NJ, and PA would make you think those students have inundated Grounds. Check out [the</a> count, by state, of enrolled students in 2009](<a href=“http://www.web.virginia.edu/iaas/data_catalog/institutional/data_digest/enrl_state.htm]the”>http://www.web.virginia.edu/iaas/data_catalog/institutional/data_digest/enrl_state.htm):</p>
<p>NJ 455
NY 630
PA 496
VA 12,751</p>
<p>Being as the Post has gotten too expensive to continue our subscription, (due to us being an IS family paying tuition :)) …thanks superg for sharing the article.</p>
<p>My initial thought after reading was, well… this article will just add more fuel to the belief that every in state Virginia kid is entitled to a spot at his/her first choice of Virgnia schools. I know it has to be awful for a student with spotless credentials not to get into his/her choice of WM, UVA, VT, etc. and I empathize for those kids and their families, but it is what it is. Being admitted because of great stats is no longer a given. Simply put, there are just too many smart, well-rounded, talented students for there to be room for all. As hard as it is for some families to believe, their amazing child is just one of thousands of amazing kids.</p>
<p>These schools want to put together what they feel is a dynamic class of individuals. If someone’s child doesn’t get in to one of the top schools, they shouldn’t feel victimized. I told my oldest and now my youngest that there is a place for everyone and they should make the best of the place that is presented to them. </p>
<p>I sincerely hope that the bill for IS/OOS changes doesn’t go through. Honestly, they could change it, the schools’ budgets and student body makeup would be negatively impacted and you could still find kids who are astounded to be denied by their dream school.</p>
<p>I totally would despise having the VA public schools having to reach a quota, and I LIVE in Virginia. I’d rather be rejected from UVA and William & Mary than to force VA schools to have 75% IS enrollment. </p>
<p>UVA and W&M have powerful intellectual communities, and forcing more IS students just makes them less appealing… Sure, they are meant for Virginians, but numbers and IS/OOS enrollment are meant specifically for each college. I’m sure the VA public schools know what they need to do, so enough with the legislation, seriously…</p>
<p>Every university has its own design, and I know that W&M and UVA have a desire to expand their growth to all states, not just Virginia. If people are complaining about not getting into UVA and W&M, then they have no idea what they are trying to assert: that they deserved to gain entrance into one of the top schools in the nation, JUST because they are in-state. Truly disappointing.</p>
<p>My initial reaction is to the sense of entitlement that this kid and his mom seem to have. I think it’s sad that he’s a junior at a great school like Virginia Tech and he is still whining about this. With a 1300 SAT, I’m not surprised he did not get into UVa. My son,with a 1360,great EC’s, didn’t even apply because his GPA was below 4.0. He’s now at Virginia Tech with an almost 3.9 GPA after 3 semesters there in engineering but does not plan to try to transfer to UVa as he is quite happy at VT. If this kid is still so mad about not getting into UVa, he’s had every opportunity to do well at VT so he could have transferred to UVa. Even my UVa grad son with 1480 SAT and 4+GPA did not automatically feel he was entitled to be admitted(and yes,there are plenty of instate kids at UVa with stat’s similar to many of the out of state kids). He applied ,hoped for acceptance and was lucky to be accepted. We are very lucky to have such great schools in Virginia.There’s a place for everyone, it may just not be UVa for most. I think our schools do need to continue to admit out of state students so they continue to have national recognition.</p>
<p>"The University of Virginia wouldn’t be the same place if we did that,‘’ </p>
<p>Dean J, could you please tell me the reason of increasing enrollment by more than 1,000 Virginians over the next five years?</p>
<p>Is this intended to increase the number of science/engineering major?
because I think UVA already has enough number of students.</p>
<p>his018, this was already discussed in the thread about the enrollment increase.</p>
<p>If I were a Virginia Tech alum, I would be mad that that my university keeps being ridiculed in comparison to the University of Virginia.</p>
<p>wahoomb, As the mom of a future Virginia Tech alum, I was not happy to see no acknowledgment of how great Virginia Tech is. This kid is lucky to be there. The programs in engineeering and architecture are very well regarded (as are others but those are the 2 that come to mind right now). Having one at UVa and now one at VT, I’ve been pleased with both schools. Again, we are very lucky in Virginia to have such great schools. Why else would so many out of staters want to come here?</p>
<p>Agreed! The tone that was conveyed in the comments Virginia Tech was very peculiar.</p>
<p>
:D</p>
<p>It sounds like things are really starting to heat up in Virginia over this issue.</p>
<p>It is interesting that Penn State and U. Pitt are taking the opposite approach. Like many state universities, they have been increasing their out of state students, which financially makes up for state funding that has been declining in real dollars for decades. I believe the main campus of Penn State is up to 1/3 out of state, vs. it was probably 5% out of state 25 years ago. Because their applicant pool is broader, it has increased the selectivity of both universities. There are tens of thousands of PA. residents each year who want to attend their main campuses as freshman, but who get pushed off to branches.</p>
<p>Penn State also gives no preference to in state students for admission.</p>
<p>The difference is: Penn State offers limited financial aid to both in state and out of state students. Pitt stresses merit aid to the top out of state students.</p>
<p>If Penn state gives no preference to in-state students,
why 2/3 of students are from in-state?</p>
<p>The mere fact that penn state accepts large parentage of in-state is a preference.</p>
<p>charlieschm, I am originally from Pennsylvania and went to graduate school at Pitt. The difference that I see is that schools like UVa and William and Mary have always attracted a national pool. They do not need to give merit aid to atttract top students to the extent that most other public schools do. I believe the Jefferson is handled separately from the UVa financial aid office? Pennsylvania is similar in that the top students gravitate to the main campuses of Penn State and Pitt if they want to/need to stay instate and most would not be happy to not be accepted to the main campus. Sort of like a Virginia kid thinking they should be able to go to a main campus but find they have to go to a lesser school in their eyes(Longwood,Radford,etc-no offense to those schools!). UVa, William and Mary, and Virginia Tech either admit you or don’t. If you want to still get in, you have to go to another college, do well and hope to transfer or you go the community college route.</p>
<p>Is there anyway that Virginia alums can do to voice their concerns over this bill, besides trying to contact Hugo (who’s actually my delegate)? I’m going to bring this up at the next alumni meeting, but the only people who seem to be doing all the talking are parents who want their kids getting into UVA and not those who have actual ties to the University.</p>
<p>As sevmom said, if students REALLY want to go there, then they can. </p>
<p>a) Transfer from a college to their college of choice
b) Do the VA community college plan and transfer to the college of choice
c) Go there for grad school, if they want</p>
<p>There are a lot of options for students if they really want to attend, I don’t see why parents are complaining. VA schools are VERY considerate in accepting IS candidates, and no parent or person should complain about them doing their best. It’s hard to do such difficult things, they have to balance IS and OOS in order to finance their institution in the first place. Totally not fair, I sympathize with the VA institutions.</p>
<p>"If I were a Virginia Tech alum, I would be mad that that my university keeps being ridiculed in comparison to the University of Virginia. "</p>
<p>wahoomb, sevmom and Dean J, so true…
Gotta believe that you may see some wicked commentary/rebuttals in the Post in the next few days…those Hokie alums, just like their 'Hoo counterparts, are a proud bunch. </p>
<p>I try to refrain from reading any online newspaper comments, so many are just down right nuts, but it might be worth a peek in this case!</p>
<p>The comments on that article were pretty on target when I read them earlier today.</p>