Washington Post reports: Colleges Want Passion, Not Well Rounded

Parents Forum
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<p>Info about Harvard's 6 Rhodes Scholar winners this year provide good examples of backgrounds of students with defining passions.</p>

<p>"BOSTON --Harvard senior Parvinder Thiara's life was reshaped when his beloved grandfather died of infectious diarrhea from drinking tainted water in India while Thiara prepared to begin his second year in college....</p>

<p>A chemistry major at Harvard, Thiara, of Rochelle, Ill., is the co-founder of an organization dedicated to improving water sanitation technologies, particularly in impoverished areas of the world....</p>

<p>Fellow Harvard Rhodes Scholarship winner Elise Wang said her family experience influenced her decision to study forced migration next fall at Oxford....</p>

<p>The only Massachusetts resident selected as a Rhodes Scholar, Harvard senior Joshua Billings...is majoring in German and classics while simultaneously working on a master's degree in comparative literature. He also edits the Harvard Book Review.Billings, 21, plans to study European literature at Oxford. In his spare time, he said, "I try to read, cook, and go to hear as much classical music and opera as possible...." </p>

<p>--Casey Cep, an editor at the Harvard Crimson and Harvard Book Review who is a completing a novel about her native Maryland eastern shore region.</p>

<p>--Brad Smith, a 2005 summa cum laude graduate who spent the last 15 months as a campaign assistant to Sen.-elect Bob Corker in his native Tennessee.</p>

<p>--Ryan Thoreson, a North Dakota native with majors in government and women, gender and sexuality studies. Thoreson is co-chair of the Harvard Bisexual, Gay, Lesbian, Transgender and Supporter Alliance as well as a playwright and nationally ranked debater...."</p>

<p>By Googling, I was able to learn a bit of some of their high school backgrounds:</p>

<p>Parvinder Thiara -- Ill. All State Academic Team</p>

<p>Casey Cep: Former student board member Talbot County, Maryland Board of Education</p>

<p>Ryan Thoreson -- defensive player high school football team, member of debate team and with two other teammates took charge of a benefit speech tournament, raising $5,000 for charity; 4th place finisher national debate tourney;</p>

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<p>Claysoul wrote: " I hate that college admissions can dictate what kind of activites people pursue."</p>

<p>Everyone has a choice about what they do. Some people prefer to follow their own drummers and then to find colleges that are good matches for the people whom they have become. Others contort themselves by ignoring their own interests in favor of what they think a particular college wants.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, the top colleges aren't looking for contortionists, at least not the kind described herein.</p>

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<p>It is true that IVY's are ending up with students who are nearly all not just A type personalities but AAA types, ones who eat their lunch in 3 minutes and during lunch are usually thinking about their 4 minute dinner that night -sometimes with EC's a mile wide and an inch deep.</p>

<p>They may need need a few Type B's or certainly more A/B's </p>

<p>Maybe a few less William Jefferson Clinton personality types and a few more Henry David Thoreau types - those that can reflect on life an bit and slow down instead of doing 99 things in a day and probably not enjoying 98 of those things they do</p>

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<p>Claysoul says
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I hate that college admissions can dictate what kind of activites people pursue. </p>

<p>It'd be a shame for someone not to try new things because they need to focus on their "passion" so they can get into college. Shame.

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<p>Well, as long as colleges want to see serious accomplishments and/or leadership roles in extracurricular activities, I think this is inevitable. In many types of activities, you can't get to the point of really accomplishing anything or being a leader unless you have participated in the activity very extensively for several years. A kid who joins Boy Scouts in 6th grade and participates actively in the advancement program has a good shot at making Eagle Scout in high school; a kid who joins in 10th grade doesn't. Similarly, a kid who starts to study trumpet in 4th grade and works at it seriously from then on may have a good shot at All-State band in high school; a kid who picks up a trumpet for the first time in 11th grade doesn't. Thus, the kid who switches from trumpet playing to Boy Scouts (or vice versa) in the middle of high school is giving up his opportunity to demonstrate a substantial accomplishment in an extracurricular activity. </p>

<p>Of course, there is an alternate approach to the issue of activities and college admissions, which is simply to say the hell with it, do what you want (even if it's nothing), and accept the fact that you will be attending a college less selective than the one you might have attended if you had chosen to play the EC game. Below a certain level of selectivity, the colleges don't care about ECs anyway (especially if the applicant's GPA and SAT scores are above the institution's average).</p>

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<p>"It is true that IVY's are ending up with students who are nearly all not just A type personalities but AAA types, ones who eat their lunch in 3 minutes and during lunch are usually thinking about their 4 minute dinner that night -sometimes with EC's a mile wide and an inch deep"</p>

<p>Unfortunately, yes. And some of those students will burn out soon after graduation.</p>

<p>What the colleges cannot see is dedication to ECs. For example, my d has two friends, sisters, one of whom is a freshman at Princeton and the other who will probably go to Yale next year. Very intelligent young women. They have scheduled themselves to the max and beyond, so that their resumes look fantastic as well as passionate; however, no one can ever count on them. For example, they will promise to do something, and then cancel last minute because they need to study. One girl thought nothing of skipping two weeks of regional orchestra, clubs, lessons, etc. to study for midterms, and the other would volunteer to work on a club committee and then never show up because she had other things to do. The elite schools are unwittingly promoting a lifestyle that is somewhat detrimental to the students. I believe that ECs are important and necessary to create an interesting person, but they should not come at the expense of a normal life, friendship, responsibility, and sanity.</p>

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<p>
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I believe that ECs are important and necessary to create an interesting person, but they should not come at the expense of a normal life, friendship, responsibility, and sanity.

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<p>Not to mention sleep.</p>

87

<p>MWFN
I believe there were close to 800 kids in S's HS class. The few students whose grades/SATs qualified them for the Princetons/Yales were well-known among GCs and teachers, as each would be a standout in terms of academic awards and/or leadership roles. The girls you mentioned, that skipped rehearsals and performances when midterms approached, would build that reputation eventually. I recall MIT asking recommenders if students did well because they studied hard or if the material came easily to them. Those letters want to know about the character of the applicant, and I think that shines thru.</p>

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<p>""It is true that IVY's are ending up with students who are nearly all not just A type personalities but AAA types, ones who eat their lunch in 3 minutes and during lunch are usually thinking about their 4 minute dinner that night -sometimes with EC's a mile wide and an inch deep""</p>

<p>While it's true that Ivies are really for Type A people, it's not true that their students have ECs a mile wide and an inch deep. Typically students have pursued 2-3 ECs with depth and impact. It's a fallacy to think that Ivies are looking for students with laundry lists of ECs that were resume decoration.</p>

<p>Just check out what the Rhodes Scholars were doing during their time at Harvard. As you can see, those ECs were done in depth while the students also took demanding courseloads. The ECs also weren't done to impress anyone, but out of genuine interest.</p>

<p>These are the same type of people who when they enter the work world will continue to juggle lots of things and be the epitome of the saying: "If you want something done, ask a busy person."</p>

<p>People like this don't burn out because of intense schedules that they happily chose. They burn brightly. Most people, however aren't like this. To each, his own.</p>

89

<p>reposted</p>

<p>"It is true that IVY's are ending up with students who are nearly all not just A type personalities but AAA types, ones who eat their lunch in 3 minutes and during lunch are usually thinking about their 4 minute dinner that night -SOMETIMES with EC's a mile wide and an inch deep."</p>

<p>common definition of the word SOMETIMES: "at times; now and then."</p>

90

<p>I really don't like this stuff about 'passion' and all I see on CC pretty darn often. I mean, first off we're talking about High School. What can you really do that's so darn special? (granted some will but thats such a small number it's negligible)Be in a chess team? Wow...you showed soooooo much. <em>snickers</em> Second, 'passion' is pretty relative to that particular kid. His lifestyle, parents, school, courseload...you can't just say 'Oh, she took more EC's than that kid...that means she's more special!' You don't know the situation of the kid. Some are uninformed of the College process or knew too late in advance. Some have huge amounts of work and simply don't have the time. To some, they are passionate on their schoolwork and find things like 'school president' to be a waste of time. Just because he might not show he's passionate in something on his transcript (not many EC's) doesn't mean he isn't passionate about something else. (i.e: outside of school in the privacy of his/her own home)</p>

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<p>I think what's really interesting is that students who are "passionate" continue to discover new passions. My daughter is not doing much of what she did in high school at all in college ... and what she did in high school probably helped get her into the Ivy that she attends. I truly believe that these schools don't care if students continue their high school ECs. They are looking for people who are passionate about life ... and they know that most of their students will find one or two (or three) activities to get involved with on campus that will "make a difference." After all, many colleges have clubs/activities that don't even exist in many high schools. It's great for all college students to be able to tinker with new ECs - not just new courses.</p>

<p>By the way, my daughter does tell me that she sleeps more in college than she did in high school, but I think that's because she has finally rediscovered the meaning of the word NAP!</p>

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<p>
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Just because he might not show he's passionate in something on his transcript (not many EC's) doesn't mean he isn't passionate about something else. (i.e: outside of school in the privacy of his/her own home)

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<p>Many kids seem to think that the only ECs that count are the ones done at school. There are plenty of opportunities in most applications to show what you've done outside school as well as in it. As for the kids that have no time because of huge amounts of school work - they probably aren't the ones the top colleges are looking for. They want the kids who get As AND find time to do interesting things on the side.</p>

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<p>As a sophomore last year in high school, I performed fairly well on my PSAT's and got invited to an information session about MIT. After attending, I left excited--the admissions officers kept talking about things like 'focus' and 'passion', instead of the usual hyper-well rounded student I'd always thought I needed to be in order to get into college.</p>

<p>After hearing such news, I went home and told my dad how they weren't looking for someone who does everything, just someone who's dedicated to one thing--and you know what his reply was?</p>

<p>"Well, we better get you working on community service then..." o_O (I've never been a community service girl.)</p>

<p>I think parents put a whole lot more emphasis on well-roundedness and 'passion' for something they think will get their kids into college, not what their students really enjoy--just like my dad. </p>

<p>Now, I'm not trying to say everyone (especially on these boards) is like that, but I've met a lot of parents/adults who always tell me that, if I want to succeed, I need to be super-involved in everything. Am I necessarily 'passionate' about my interests (science/tech and journalism)? That's debatable, depending on how you choose to define 'passion', but I'm definitely dedicated and focused--I don't know any kids who could really be defined as 'passionate'. I've seen a gazillion people with ECs all over the place, but people who really care about and dedicate their time to one thing (and maintain some sort of life outside of school) aren't nearly as common. I'll never forget when I was interviewing some peers for a student page to the State Senate (I was the school student representative)--and one girl, after listing all of her fairly unrelated ECs, said all she had time for outside of school was editing stories on the Internet.</p>

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<p>Fortasse, there are kids who are "passionate". I know several, including one who is my own kid. They aren't well rounded at all (or most aren't), but their passion is clear from the moment you meet them.</p>

<p>This could be a blessing, or a curse, depending on to whom you speak. I think it is great to love something enough to devote your time to it, but it is empty when the time is spent, not out of passion or enjoyment, but out of trying to please an adcom.</p>

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<p>My son also is one of those students with an obvious passion and, maybe luckily -- we'll find out soon -- it's in an area that may be of interest to some top schools (Latin and Classics). But it was all his choice and started back in 5th grade, way before college was a thought in his head. I actually tried to be one of those obnoxious parents pushing him to do something to make his application look "better" -- take up a sport, take up an instrument, join another club. But he refused. He pursued what he loved and has enjoyed his time thoroughly.</p>

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<p>How does your son go about doing Latin and Classics? Does he simply learn latin and read classics? How do you "prove" (I define it this way) to college what he does?</p>

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<p>If you are sniggering about high school students achieving real passion, you obviously don't know any young innovators. They are out there. From wikipedia:</p>

<p>
[quote]
Zuckerberg was raised in Dobbs Ferry, New York. He began programming computers in sixth grade. Zuckerberg attended Ardsley High School but by his junior year he had transferred to Phillips Exeter Academy where he resided in Peabody Hall. Zuckerberg attended Harvard University and was enrolled in the class of 2006. At Harvard, Zuckerberg continued creating his projects. An early project, Coursematch, allowed students to view lists of other students enrolled in the same classes. A later project, Facemash.com, was a Harvard-specific image rating site similar to Hot or Not. A version of the site was online for four hours before Zuckerberg's Internet access was revoked by administration officials. The computer services department brought Zuckerberg before the Harvard University Administrative Board where he was charged with breaching security and violating copyrights and privacy.[1] The school alleged that Zuckerberg had hacked into House websites to harvest images of students without their permission and make money with it. Zuckerberg said he thought that information should be free and publicly available. The action taken by the board, if any, was not made public. In 2004, Zuckerberg made Facebook, took a leave of absence from the college, and a year later dropped out.</p>

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<p>A-san, Since I don't know enough about BurnThis' S, I wll use Carolyn's S as an example. He discovered Ancient Greek in middle school, and insisted on attending a CTY camp to learn the language, then advocated for second-year Greek to be taught at CTY. That would demonstrate passion to any adcom, especially since Ancient Greek is not offered at many schools. For Latin, doing well on the National Latin exam and perhaps participating in the Junior Classics League could demonstrate passion. And don't forget the personal essay.</p>

<p>Passion may be the wrong word to use, and a scary one. Commitment and dedication, a desire to excel might be better.</p>

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<p>Allmusic and cheers: I know there are those who can really find 'passion' for something, but it's awfully hard for a lot of kids to accomplish that (I commend your student, Allmusic), especially in cases like the Classics example discussed above. According to some standards, I'm very 'passionate' about my interests, but to others, not as much so--e.g., there aren't any real opportunites for high school student research in my area, so I might not look as 'passionate' as another student interested in science. But I try to make the best out of and pursue my interests with what I have, and I truly enjoy everything I do. :)</p>

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<p>"I know there are those who can really find 'passion' for something, but it's awfully hard for a lot of kids to accomplish that "</p>

<p>Heck, most adults don't find their passion.</p>

<p>Since passion is such a rare quality, only the very top colleges are able to include that routinely in their admission criteria.</p>