<p>Interesting discussion. For those of us whose children's received special education services in public school, the word "appropriate" in that venue becomes "reasonable" in the post-secondary world of school and work. And both can become the basis for litigation. </p>
<p>My son received accommodations in college, and now has to list the accommodations he thinks he will need for his new job.</p>
<p>My daughter's ADHD is well managed with medication and behaviors/habits that she's worked into her freshman year routine. I'm doing my best to stay out of her way and let her navigate things herself. She did run into some red tape, though, when it was time to establish a relationship with a physician at her college who could prescribe her meds. She has to be treated by a local doc because of the restrictions on refills on a controlled substance (she takes Adderall XR).</p>
<p>Long story short, we ended up getting an assistant dean in the student affairs department involved and it looks like she'll be able to be treated in the system. The red tape was surprising to me because I thought that there'd be lots of kids like her who were looking for this type of treatment. She's at a big college with a well-known medical school, too, so I really thought it'd be something she could navigate.</p>
<p>I'm mentioning this for those parents who will send their ADHD kids off to college next fall. Ask about the student health service's system for intake for your kids. It was a bit complicated for my daughter.</p>
<p>I wouldn't expect the job market to be as accomodating as college or HS. By the time you graduate from college, YOU should know what you're good at, and try to get a job that suits your talents, or you'll always be a square peg in a round hole. And recognize if you need an assistant to organize you.</p>
<p>My brother is slightly dyslexic, and never did well in subjects that required reading on his own, but he is a whiz at mechanical understanding. His engineering degree is in instrumentation. He is great at what he does at the power company (I am vague on what it is, exactly, cause it's not MY strength!). There are other workers there whose "book learning" fits them for other jobs, but they wouldn't know which way to adjust a dial or valve.</p>
<p>anitaw and mommusic, I completely agree with you. High school is largely about a) shoring up one's weaknesses; and b) covering them up. One has to do well at everything (at least for the most competitive schools). College is a bit of a mix depending upon where you go to school. Some colleges with detailed core curricula like Columbia's would likely be a repeat of high school. Others like Brown or Hampshire allow a kid to play to his/her strengths. Grad school, if a kid attends, should be in an area that plays to one's strengths. Unfortunately, sometimes grad school does not adequately prepare one for the basic tasks in a job (e.g., I got my PhD and then had to learn how to teach on the job). One should choose a job that plays to one's strengths and doesn't rely heavily on one's weaknesses. E.g., maybe if you are dyslexic, become a futures trader so you don't have to read/write a lot. If you want to be a doctor and can't organize oral information quickly, maybe become an allergist, dermatologist, radiologist or an anesthesiologist (less clear on this one as you may have some real emergencies here) or focus on a testing oriented job rather than a clinical job.</p>
<p>It is good, mommusic, that your brother figured out how to locate in an area that plays to his strengths and downplays his weaknesses. And, I've hired to folks I need to complement my weaknesses. When I hire a new assistant, I tell the applicants that the position is aimed at making me more productive. The world is very delighted to get me to focus my mind on a certain set of things. Being effective also requires other tasks that I don't do well, but other people can do many of these. So, the assistant's job is to do as many of those other things, professional and personal, so that I can focus on what I do well. These tasks run from the sublime to the mundane but they make it possible for me to play to my strengths. So, career choices should come from playing to one's strengths, in general, and especially if one has learning disabilities.</p>
<p>shawbridge, I agree with you except for the dyslexic futures trader!</p>
<p>"I told you to buy at 54, not 45!!!" :D</p>
<p>Elderly man getting pulled over on highway * " Sir this sign says * route 99, not that the * speed limit* is 99"!</p>
<p>I guess it depends upon the nature of the dyslexia. My son never gets numbers wrong. My wife, on the other hand, is an artist who became an artist in part because of dyslexia. She was always told as a child, "You have such a high IQ. How come you are not trying?" For her, numbers are really for emphasis and change from telling to telling. But, for my son, I would have real confidence in the numbers.</p>
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. . . These kids are not stupid or lazy. They just have issues with organization, sometimes motivation, and otherwise slower to mature. They can get there, they just need a little extra help sometimes.
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<p>In related news, stupid and lazy kids are not stupid and lazy. They just don't like studying, staying organized, or bearing responsibility for their own lives (since each of those things requires making effort). But they can get there, they just need a little extra special treatment sometimes.</p>
<p>Great post! I have been thinking alot about how motivation and self pride can help most kids pave or muscle their way through many processing or attention disorders. My sister has been testing and bringing her son to many doctor appts to discover why he is performing poorly in school. She also feels he has organizational issues. My take on it is she has a very poor self esteem, feels guilty because of her divorce 10 years ago and contiues to expect little of him and does not coach him to respect himself enough to have goals and purue them. It is an exhausting job to raise kids with the framework to have personal responsibility but often this may be all they need.</p>
<p>I always thought "special needs" meant dyslexia or a processing disorder, or poor vision or hearing. </p>
<p>If lacking motivation or maturity gets you special treatment through life, our society is in trouble.</p>
<h1>28*related news, stupid and lazy kids are not stupid and lazy. They just don't like studying, staying organized, or bearing responsibility for their own lives (since each of those things requires making effort). But they can get there, they just need a little extra special treatment sometimes.</h1>
<pre><code>*
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<p>The quote you were commenting on wasn't referenced- was that from an article?
Your statement is how students with learning challenges were viewed in many districts and schools thirty years ago.
IDEA was adopted in 1975.</p>
<p>I entered kindergarten in 1961, when I was four- because I was considered " bright", ( I taught myself to read :rolleyes: ) however I suffered throughout school because of undiagnosed learning disabilities. I was told I " wasn't trying hard enough". When I tried to tell my parents/teacher that I felt there was something wrong with me, that I * was* trying, but that my brain didn't seem to work like the other kids- I was told I was " fine" and I just had to try harder.
there was not any place in the school system for kids who seemed bright at face value, but needed structures in place to help them succeed.
These kids often drop out of school, like I did.
However- my own kids- who also have learning challenges- graduated from high school & my oldest has graduated from a 4 year college, and my youngest has been accepted to a 4 yr school ( she will begin in 09-currently taking a year off to travel and teach)</p>
<p>*The Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) is a United States federal law that governs how states and public agencies provide early intervention, special education, and related services to children with disabilities. It addresses the educational needs of children with disabilities from birth to the age of 21.[1]</p>
<p>The IDEA is considered to be a civil rights law. However, states are not required to participate. As an incentive and to assist states in complying with its requirements, IDEA makes funds available to states that adopt at least the minimum policies and procedures specified in the IDEA regarding the education of children with disabilities. Since its inception, all states have chosen to participate.</p>
<p>The IDEA was formerly known as the Education for All Handicapped Children Act but has grown considerably since. IDEA became a federal standard by an act of Congressional adoption in 1975 but has been amended many times since. The IDEA was most recently amended in 2004, which was a significant update.</p>
<p>In defining the purpose of special education, IDEA 2004 clarifies Congress’ intended outcome for each child with a disability: students must be provided a Free Appropriate Public Education (FAPE) that prepares them for further education, employment and independent living.*</p>
<p>the efforts of our system are much better spent addressing the needs of students in K-12- because they are not going away when they are 20,40,60 years old- however remediation will be much more difficult and expensive if left until then.</p>
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<p>As a senior resident in the hospital one of our jobs was to help the incoming interns adapt and cope. We were to train them in the "hidden curriculum" relevant to the high speed and data dense tasks involved in a hospital setting. There was a set of organizational skills that was passed down from one generation to the next- strategies for organizing information and communicating it efficiently. My first intern in my senior year was a terrific girl who was typically nervous in the first few days. She was patient, kind, warm and smart. She knew heaps of information on all the relevant topics.</p>
<p>But, she absolutely could not record data quickly and she could not organize the information presented to her orally. She and we tried every imaginable shorthand and graphic organizer ever known- nothing was enough. She began to get sad and then she told us that she was dyslexic- which we all suspected.</p>
<p>We all felt for her. She had, though force of extra hours and extra effort, been able to make it through college and medical school. But, nothing then, and nothing now, could help her bypass this final issue.
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<p>What "happened" to her? Did she just end up with a useless MD degree?</p>
<p>FYI
This Week's Live Chat
High School Completion and Transitions
When: Monday, November 17, 3 p.m. to 4 p.m. Eastern time
Where: Education</a> Week Chat
Submit questions in advance.
Please join EPE Research Center director Christopher Swanson as he moderates a lively discussion examining the challenges facing students with disabilities in completing high school and preparing for the transition to adult life.</p>
<p>Regarding dyscalculia: "An individual might suffer arithmetic difficulties (or dyscalculia), with no impairment of, or even giftedness in, abstract mathematical reasoning abilities" (from Wikip.)</p>
<p>I was never good at grade school math, but did fine in university abstract math.</p>
<p>My kid is thinking of dropping the extra time assistance once she enters the CC. I'm thinking it might work out - she's using the time in HS but in steadily decreasing amounts. It might boost her confidence to attain w/o the aid. But she might really do poorly too...</p>
<p>My Ds prep school, under a new admissions director, admitted a large number of smart, talented outgoing freshman with add/organizational issues. Its not yet Christmas and half have washed out. This Boarding school has lots of homework help, required study halls, advisers and even a study needs staff of two; its does not throw students to the own resource. But the competitive, boarding/prep school world, those who have been drilled and organized and supported by parents and special needs programs are just not going to be able to keep it together.</p>
<p>I have autism, and I've had accomodations for most of my public education. Sometimes, I felt the special education system was hindering more than helping. Many told me I wouldn't go to college which drove me into a motivated mode. In eighth grade, I transferred completely out of Special Ed classes to regular classes in one short week. Although the transition was hard on me at first, I realized it would help me in the long run. I managed to pull straight As, and I drastically improved my social skills.</p>
<p>I have an A average in high school. I finished college applications two and a half weeks ago and have already been accepted at two universities. I can honestly say I didn't need special education to hold my hand for me or I would have been ill prepared.</p>
<p>I know the college will be hard. I know it won't be easy, but I will rely on my will to succeed than my fear of failure. Anyone with learning differences can go to college, but it takes more effort. Motivation is the key to any goal.</p>
<p>Good luck to you, Robogirl!</p>
<p>From Post 21"My son received accommodations in college, and now has to list the accommodations he thinks he will need for his new job. "</p>
<p>If an applicant presented me with a list of accommodation, I'd choose another applicant. The issue is not having a disability - the turn off is the attitude: sense of entitlement,that the company should bend to his needs. That kind of self-centeredness I don't need.</p>
<p>It is a competitive world. Steer students to colleges and careers where they can succeed without accommodation.</p>
<p>toadstool, I agree that people should play to their strengths. College admissions makes that impossible because any weaknesses are counted against you. Thus, a kid who has great intellectual strengths and dyslexia couldn't get into a college with kids of comparable horsepower unless they can write well enough and can score well on multiple choice tests. They need accommodations to do so (such as the ability to use a computer or speech recognition technology or extra time for in-class writing assignments or tests). Such a kid might choose colleges to avoid a Great Books curriculum for a freer curriculum (e.g., Brown or Amherst rather than Columbia or Chicago). If they go to grad school, they'd certainly be wise to choose a field that plays to their strength and by the time they choose a job, they'd really be wise to do so.</p>
<p>However, some disabilities may still need accommodation. I may be mistaken but I think by law the job applicant does not have to tell the employer until after the offer is made and accepted. The reason for this is just so the employers won't discriminate against the applicant based upon the disability, because that would violate the ADA. This probably doesn't apply to very small companies and there are other exceptions, but if you followed the approach you outline above, the rejected applicant would have grounds for a juicy lawsuit.</p>
<p>This may not always be fair, but I think it is the law. Others who know the ADA should correct me if I am wrong.</p>
<p>Is the private sector required under ADA required to accommodate ADD/learning disabilities? I’d be surprised if the list of disabilities was that broad.</p>