I'm a College Learning Specialist

Parents Forum Learning Differences and Challenges - LD, ADHD
1

<p>I have an adult son with LD who made it through college successfully. His success wasn't an accident; it was the result of deliberate decisions, habits, and strategies that set him up to succeed. </p>

<p>As a college Learning Specialist I see many students with LD fail because they navigate haphazardly. It's heartbreaking when they drop out because their self-esteem plummets -- they feel they just aren't cut out for college when, in reality, they went about it in such a way that they never had a chance in the first place.</p>

<p>When students drop out because they aren't set up correctly, we are losing potential Charles Schwabs, Richard Bransons, and Nelson Rockefellers. The fact that many schools don't provide a safety net for LD students is bad enough, but when students enter college with misconceptions that lead them astray, that compounds the problem.</p>

<p>I would be happy to answer any questions and provide advice to those who contact me - you CAN do it!</p>

2

<p>TransitionSucces: Very nice to hear from you. Do you work at a college or do you work for students?</p>

<p>I have two sets of basic question which probably have sub-parts. </p>

<ol>
<li><p>How would you suggest identifying the schools that do provide good support/safety net?</p></li>
<li><p>What kinds of misconceptions or assumptions lead the students you are thinking about astray?</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I have a very bright son with pretty severe dyslexia. He's partially homeschooled (lab science, art, and social studies in school; typically math and English homeshooled). This has allowed him to do advanced work in math and focus on writing skills in English. He works hard and has become very successful -- he's at or very close to the top of his class in a high school graduating class of 300 at a competitive, suburban public high school that is considered among the best in the Massachusetts. He's done very well on his standardized tests thus far. But, the reading and writing fatigue him -- and he has had medical problems including sleep apnea. </p>

<p>He's going to graduate this spring and take next year as a gap year and apply to college next fall. Our sense is that he needs a college that has very bright kids and that has flexibility in curriculum so that he can avoid having too much reading in any one semester. Neither we nor he are sure what to assume at this point.</p>

3

<p>This is the first time I am posting so bear with me! I have a son who suffered a TBI as an infant that left him with occipital and parietal lobe damage. He is missing half of his vision in both eyes. He is very bright and has done quite well all through school. He is a sophomore in hs and is now having great difficulty with geometry because of his vision impairment. My question to you as a learning specialest is: should I ask for a P/F option so that his gpa and self-esteem aren't damaged or just have him explain a low grade in geometry when he writes his personal essay? Also, do you think very competitive schools will consider him in spite of this issue? He is interested in computer science. Thanks for any help!!</p>

4

<p>Hi piestone, Welcome! I may not be understanding completely, but if the vision is the sole issue affecting your son's geometry performance, I'm wondering if he is being accommodated properly by his school. Are there special tools or programs to teach vision-impared or blind students geometry? If so, it seems to me that your son's school should provide these so that your son can excel in a way that is commensurate with his intellectual abilities. A pass/fail option would remove a lot of the pressure and clearly be a good idea for the time being, but the bigger picture is that in subjects in which a vision impairment holds your son back, the school needs to accommodate. Another reason to find appropriate accommodations that help your son address geometry questions is that there will be geometry questions on the math portion of the PSAT, SAT, and ACT (assuming those questions are not omitted from the tests administered to vision impared and blind students.) By getting accommodation in geometry now, you greatly increase the chance that those accommodations will be granted on the College Board and ACT tests your son takes later, so that his SAT scores will reflect his true ability and will not be adversely affected by his LD.</p>

5

<p>And now for the shawbridge/transitionsuccess questions:</p>

<p>Like shawbridge's S, my kid does extremely well in hs with accommodations, some granted by the school and some kind of cobbled together. He is now entering college in an honors program. Like shawbridge's S, one issue is with very heavy reading. Question for shawbridge: What kinds of tools/software/assistive technology have you found useful? </p>

<p>We haven't yet approached the office that handles accommodation and support for LD kids at the college and I am frankly terrified after all of the stress involved in getting kid's accommodations in place, especially after our experiences with the CB (although, thanks to them, our documentation has documentation). Kid will need the same accommodations he has received up to this point, and a notetaker for large, lecture classes would certainly be helpful. Question for transitionsuccess: Do you have suggestions for how to make the initial contact with the college service that determines accommodations? I'm wanting to do this asap, and not wait until the fall. After dealing with the CB, I'm approaching the encounter with the college with trepidation, prepared for something adversarial, even though I'm hoping that the college will, if fact, want to provide the needed assistance.</p>

6

<p>Hi Shawbridge,</p>

<p>Basically, the best way to identify schools with good support systems is to initially check the internet. If the support sounds good, then you must go and check in person. Funds come and go, so disability services change. You want to know how many full and part-timers the dept has, the size of the LD population, and whether individualized tutoring is provided by appt by a learning specialist (your son may not need this, however) or by peer tutors. Also ask whether LD students get priority registration and whether or not they are registered in the disability services area. These people know your son best and can register him with instructors who best meet his learning style.</p>

<p>Some of the misconceptions on the part of the students at the CC where I teach are:
a) There is a stigma to disclosing, just as in HS. They want to remain anonymous, but they don't realize that they WILL, even if they disclose. So, they never have the safety net.
b) Drop-in tutoring is effective for new students (again, this may be sufficient for your son - it is not for most entering freshmen)
c) They don't realize they can take a reduced course load, so they sign up for a full load and are totally overwhelmed. They usually end up withdrawing from at least one course before the end of the semester, but they have compromised ALL their courses with too heavy a workload.
d) They think they can work at a job for 30 - 40 hours/ week and go to school FT. They don't realize that for every hour in class, you have 2-3 hrs of homework/studying outside of class.
e) They go out on school nights and are exhausted in class the next day.
f) They believe they need a large block of time in which to study. They don't understand that studying is best done in short, frequent increments, so that attention stays high.<br>
g) They think studying means reading a chapter 4 times and understanding it. Understanding the reading is a different skill than regurgitating it. They must study ACTIVELY, by making flashcards, copying over their notes, speaking aloud, acting out processes, etc. Their final step should be doing practice tests and exercises online (the coordinating website is listed on the back of their textbook). A test is like a performance, and you wouldn't go on stage without a dress rehearsal, right? It tells you what you need to work on further.
h) Students think that it's ok to re-take courses they failed in fall or spring in the summer. Most college summer semesters are significantly shorter. If the student failed in a 15-week semester, why would he/she do better in a 7 week semester? Bad idea. Only take courses in which you are strong in the summer.
i) The students don't know how to self-advocate. They need to be able to articulate what their difficulty is - in many cases, professors will provide help during office hours.
j) Because there aren't as many tests in college, students don't realize when they are not doing well. If they are skipping classes, confused, not doing the HW, they are headed down the tubes. Skipping HW is tempting because often the teacher doesn't collect it - but it comes back to bite on the exam.
k) Students don't know when it's time to seek help. Ex: They fail the first quiz of the semester and say ... it was just a quiz... things will get better. NO! Things don't get better on their own - they need to analyze whether their poor grade was conceptual or careless. If it's conceptual, they need to seek help ASAP! College semesters fly by, and students can get into quicksand in the blink of an eye.
l) Students resist learning a new technology because it takes patience and time. Ex: Speech recognition software takes a while to train and doesn't give decent accuracy until it really understands your voice and speech patterns. STudents should use the summer before school to train this software.</p>

<p>The misconceptions on the part of the college where I work are:
a) Anyone can register LD students - thus, they are set up in an impersonal manner by a regular advisor, put on a track to fail from day one, before they even set foot in the classroom.
b) One PT learning specialist is sufficient for a CC of about 17,000 students.
They believe drop-in tutoring is fine. They don't realize that LD students need the time or consistency that an appt with a regular learning specialist provides.
c) If students dislike the director of of disabilities, trust them. This should be a welcoming office. If students feel the director is brusque, this isn't the right school - and the director is in the wrong profession.
d) Sophisticated technology addresses the issues with LD students. Yes, if there's someone available to TEACH the students how to use the technology. Much of our technology doesn't get used b/c there's no manpower to sit with students.</p>

<p>I hope this helped! Good luck to you and your son!</p>

7

<p>Hi Shawbridge,</p>

<p>Basically, the best way to identify schools with good support systems is to initially check the internet. If the support sounds good, then you must go and check in person. Funds come and go, so disability services change. You want to know how many full and part-timers the dept has, the size of the LD population, and whether individualized tutoring is provided by appt by a learning specialist (your son may not need this, however) or by peer tutors. Also ask whether LD students get priority registration and whether or not they are registered in the disability services area. These people know your son best and can register him with instructors who best meet his learning style.</p>

<p>Some of the misconceptions on the part of the students at the CC where I teach are:
a) There is a stigma to disclosing, just as in HS. They want to remain anonymous, but they don't realize that they WILL, even if they disclose. So, they never have the safety net.
b) Drop-in tutoring is effective for new students (again, this may be sufficient for your son - it is not for most entering freshmen)
c) They don't realize they can take a reduced course load, so they sign up for a full load and are totally overwhelmed. They usually end up withdrawing from at least one course before the end of the semester, but they have compromised ALL their courses with too heavy a workload.
d) They think they can work at a job for 30 - 40 hours/ week and go to school FT. They don't realize that for every hour in class, you have 2-3 hrs of homework/studying outside of class.
e) They go out on school nights and are exhausted in class the next day.
f) They believe they need a large block of time in which to study. They don't understand that studying is best done in short, frequent increments, so that attention stays high.<br>
g) They think studying means reading a chapter 4 times and understanding it. Understanding the reading is a different skill than regurgitating it. They must study ACTIVELY, by making flashcards, copying over their notes, speaking aloud, acting out processes, etc. Their final step should be doing practice tests and exercises online (the coordinating website is listed on the back of their textbook). A test is like a performance, and you wouldn't go on stage without a dress rehearsal, right? It tells you what you need to work on further.
h) Students think that it's ok to re-take courses they failed in fall or spring in the summer. Most college summer semesters are significantly shorter. If the student failed in a 15-week semester, why would he/she do better in a 7 week semester? Bad idea. Only take courses in which you are strong in the summer.
i) The students don't know how to self-advocate. They need to be able to articulate what their difficulty is - in many cases, professors will provide help during office hours.
j) Because there aren't as many tests in college, students don't realize when they are not doing well. If they are skipping classes, confused, not doing the HW, they are headed down the tubes. Skipping HW is tempting because often the teacher doesn't collect it - but it comes back to bite on the exam.
k) Students don't know when it's time to seek help. Ex: They fail the first quiz of the semester and say ... it was just a quiz... things will get better. NO! Things don't get better on their own - they need to analyze whether their poor grade was conceptual or careless. If it's conceptual, they need to seek help ASAP! College semesters fly by, and students can get into quicksand in the blink of an eye.
l) Students resist learning a new technology because it takes patience and time. Ex: Speech recognition software takes a while to train and doesn't give decent accuracy until it really understands your voice and speech patterns. STudents should use the summer before school to train this software.</p>

<p>The misconceptions on the part of the college where I work are:
a) Anyone can register LD students - thus, they are set up in an impersonal manner by a regular advisor, put on a track to fail from day one, before they even set foot in the classroom.
b) One PT learning specialist is sufficient for a CC of about 17,000 students.
They believe drop-in tutoring is fine. They don't realize that LD students need the time or consistency that an appt with a regular learning specialist provides.
c) If students dislike the director of of disabilities, trust them. This should be a welcoming office. If students feel the director is brusque, this isn't the right school - and the director is in the wrong profession.
d) Sophisticated technology addresses the issues with LD students. Yes, if there's someone available to TEACH the students how to use the technology. Much of our technology doesn't get used b/c there's no manpower to sit with students.</p>

<p>I hope this helped! Good luck to you and your son!</p>

8

<p>I couldn't agree more with AnonyMom's answer. There are definitely accommodations available for vision-impaired students, and I think it's important that you implement them now in high school -- not just for the sake of your son's grade, but because colleges may doubt the need for this accommodation if it's not used in HS. The accommodations won't make things easier for him - they will level the playing field. I happen to know a blind man who studied engineering at Drexel and did well. I don't know how they accommodated him, but he was successful. When he was young, his mom refused to feel sorry for him and told him he could do anything he put his mind to - but he would have to do it differently. As for competitive schools, I see no reason why your son would have a disadvantage if his grades are excellent, and if he has been involved in a worthwhile extracurricular activity. However, I think his personal essay should showcase his strengths while making it clear how he compensates for his weaknesses.</p>

9

<p>Hi AnonyMom,</p>

<p>Don't be intimidated by the disability services center. If CB means College Board, dealing with them is the biggest challenge you'll face! I think you're wise to get your son's accommodations in place well before college starts. Basically, you need to be sure your son's documentation recommends the accommodations you would like him to have. If it doesn't, you may have a problem. The recommendations should be at the end of the report, so check it and see. You may want to go back to the examiner and talk about an addition.</p>

<p>Your son doesn't necessarily HAVE to do all the reading - but it is important that he get the information SOME way. Having the book on tape is one idea; other students are such great auditory learners that listening to the lecture, and attending labs and study groups can substitute for the reading. Another idea is to buy a study guide for the book - most textbook publishers put them out, and the study guide really synthesizes the reading well. Hope this helps!</p>

10

<p>Thanks to all of you who have responded to my question about my son's visual impairment and a P/F option in geometry. To address some of your questions: He has done quite well on the 2 PSAT exams he has taken (our school administers the test to all freshmen and sophomores). The CB has granted him large print, extra time, use of a computer for typing his essay and circling his answers in the test booklet. In HS he has the same accommodations. Other types of math have not presented the same issue for him as geometry (b/c of the 3 dimensional aspects and drawing involved). The subject matter is actually on line for him as well but this doesn't seem to be helping him at all.</p>

11

<p>my husband and I have concerns abot his daughter's learning disabilities and how it will affect her college plans in the future. She is just a freshman in high school right now. She has a special program in her school system to help with her dyslexia. It has helped to improve her reading skills , but it seems like she has a hard time retaining what she does learn.
Her mother has taken a very active role in campaigning for everything she has. Our concern is that she is unable to work independantly.
Every assignment is done with her mother .
She manages to get pretty good grades, but we are worried that when ( or if ) she goes to college, she will not have her mother to do the work with her.
We are afraid that she is being set up for failure because of this.</p>

<p>Her mother tells her that she should be an engineer, which we know is a very rigorous course of study to pursue, and not one that you can achieve with your mother's coaching .
If she stayed and attended a local community college, the pattern of dependance would no doubt continue, but her mother thinks she should be admitted into more competitive colleges far away from home.
Anyone with any experience with this sort of situation ?</p>

12

<p>My experience working in a community college tells me that even that will be over your step-daughter's head. There is a whole lot more reading and homework than in HS, and a lot more to comprehend in a shorter span of time. Your husband's ex-wife might try doing the work initially, but she won't be able to keep pace. Besides, it will become apparent after the first test that the girl's homework is of higher quality. It won't take the teachers long to figure out what is going on. Community college presents challenges to almost ALL students with learning disabilities because of all that they juggle. Most CC students have a job (shouldn't be more than 15 hrs. a week), they have 2-3 hours of HW for every hr spent in class, they have family responsibilities, a social life, etc. These are a lot of balls to keep in the air. By the way, if your step-daughter's reading comprehension or retention is low, she should NOT take a full course load, or for sure she will be in quick sand. Perhaps getting her feet wet with 2 courses plus College Seminar will be sufficient. It sounds as if maybe her mom wants your step-daughter to go away (perhaps she needs time off!) and is making the case for her living at school. She may be fine doing that, but certainly she won't be material for a competitive school based on her records and her SAT/ACT scores (I am assuming she does not test well?) Why don't you just let nature take its course, and they'll figure it out.</p>

13

<p>Thank you TS,
I think it is like her mother wants her to be in a great school, and cannot accept the facts as they are. I don't think she really wants her to leave.</p>

<p>I also don't think she has the capacity to study engineering and shouldn't be told she should " want " to be an engineer. Maybe when she gets a little older she will figure things out..she has been too depandant on her mother for everything, unfortunately.</p>

14

<p>Thanks, TransitionSucces,</p>

<p>Your comments provide good guidance on how to learn. We'll start with internet searching, and then I suspect we'll need follow-up calls to get to the level of information about staffing. On some of the misconceptions of students, my son is well-prepared. He doesn't mind disclosing and the principal of the high school actually came over and shook his hand after a TEAM meeting to compliment him on how clearly and articulately he advocated for himself. He knows he needs his sleep (especially with the sleep apnea) and seems to know how to study and even more important how to learn. On others, I don't know. He does get help in studying and people read to him regularly and take dictation for him when he is tired.</p>

<p>What does it mean if "LD students get priority registration and whether or not they are registered in the disability services area?"</p>

<p>Maybe the best thing I can see is that unlike other bright kids, he knows what it is like to work hard and will not be shaken when he has to work hard or has to struggle to succeed. A number of bright kids hit a point in college where things no longer come easy to them and they panic as they've never had the experience of hitting the wall and finding a way around it. My son really knows that he has to work smart and not just work hard to be successful. So far he's done that, but we do worry about the total workload being overwhelming.</p>

15

<p>Anonymom, he uses various technologies to lesser or greater extents. His favorite technology is his cousin or his father, each of whom can read and take dictation. However, neither will be going to college with him. He composes on his laptop (a major accomplishment as he couldn't do that when he entered 10th grade) and writes by hand (once truly excruciating and now manageable for short pieces). Moreover, he uses Dragon speech recognition, which he finds more fatiguing because he has to keep reading to see that it is not producing gibberish. We have some auxiliary software called KnowBrainer, which optimizes the computer for Dragon, and Univoice, which reduces the amount of training needed. This has been a big emphasis this semester</p>

<p>For reading, we use RFB&D (not preferred due to the constantly changing voices), audible.com, audiobooks from the library, and Kurzweil. He's competing in Moot Court (why oh why does a dyslexic kid compete in Moot Court, except he's terrific at crafting arguments and thinking strategically) and when I'm out of town, he'll scan Supreme Court opinions into Kurzweil and listen to them. We've never tried scanning pens or various other devices. He doesn't love the voices on Kurzweil but I gather that they are getting better.</p>

<p>One thing that we have seen is that his reading and writing have improved substantially since he entered HS and keep improving and he has the stamina to do things he wasn't able to manage two or three years earlier. However, the bar just keeps rising higher and the demands are greater. </p>

<p>We had originally thought he would graduate high school in 5 years rather than 4, but he and the school decided otherwise. Maybe that will become the plan for college as well (that might be rather expensive but it may be the best choice).</p>

16

<p>Reduced course load.</p>

<p>My D, who struggled w/ 3rdQ grades through hs, plans to take a slightly reduced course load (14 cr instead of 16 cr) every spring semester. She will make up the 2cr during her school's January term. But w/o a J-term, or taking courses in the summer (and foregoing income or internship opptys), wouldn't a reduced course load mean taking an addit semester or year to graduate. That is certainly better than flunking out - - but a 5th year is a very expensive accommodation.</p>

17

<p>foolishpleasure, my instinct is that for some gifted kids with LDs, high school is probably the worst time because one has to perform in each area for college admissions. College can be better if one goes to a school that offers flexibility in curriculum construction so that one can play to his/her strengths. Grad school will typically be better because one can play almost entirely to one's strength. [Of course, it need not. My son who is extremely dyslexic but really good at strategic reasoning decided to compete in Moot Court, which really taxes him, and my wife and I are thrilled and cringe each time he wins because of what it takes out of him. He's in the finals this year but he has wisely concluded that being a lawyer might not be a good career choice for him.]</p>

<p>For us, the 5th year would be a very expensive accommodation but might be what we do. Summer school would be preferable, but if my son's LD/medical issues continue, he might really benefit from having summers divorced from heavy reading/writing. Not to mention the value of getting experience working. We're hoping that there are medical/surgical solutions to some of the fatigue, which a neuropsychologist told us were exacerbated by but not caused by the reading/writing. If so, we might not need year 5. But if we do, we do. We're unlikely to get financial aid and will have to pay out of our own pockets, but if that were the best solution, we'd do so.</p>

18

<p>Shawbridge, I didn't mean to suggest that a 5th year was a bad option - - just that taking a reduced course load was not as "easy" (ie: w/o conseq) as the earlier post suggested. </p>

<p>If you can afford the additional year w/o finaid, you are indeed fortunate. For many, the addit expens would make a 5th year of college impossible (and since most schools require senior year residence, it would be difficult to complete the degree at diff, less expensive school).</p>

<p>Of course, summer school poses its own set of problems - - condensed curric, courses on consec days, lots of reading every night, etc. And most schools limit the number of off-site credits that can be applied to the degree.</p>

<p>No easy answers.</p>

19

<p>TransitionSuccess, Thank you for your list of do's and don'ts. It was wonderful! Could you refer us to other resources for ADHD challenges and success strategies?</p>

20

<p>TransitionSuccess, Thanks for the great list. I could relate to this one:</p>

<p>"They think studying means reading a chapter 4 times and understanding it. Understanding the reading is a different skill than regurgitating it. They must study ACTIVELY, by making flashcards, copying over their notes, speaking aloud, acting out processes, etc. Their final step should be doing practice tests and exercises online (the coordinating website is listed on the back of their textbook). "</p>

<p>That's been so true with Fang Jr. </p>

<p>Is it usual for students with learning disabilities to be able to take a reduced course load? Does that happen at small LACs? A fifth year could be expensive-- but it would be just as expensive if the student took a full course load and failed some courses, and so had to take the fifth year, as it would be if it were planned for initially.</p>