My son narrowed down to the above three. He wants to go to pre-med track.
He likes all three but is showing most interest to WashU so far…He likes their academics but I believe he is also attracted by their name and their living environment (great food and dorm in beautiful campus). Yes, he is only 17 and I totally understand this:)
I know that WashU is a great school in many ways and he will be lucky to go to the school, but this school has too many pre-med students in my opinion and I’m thinking that competition may be too outrageous. I am a little worried if he can even make it through to go to med school at WashU. Also, it’s a national university, so I believe that some TAs teach classes…
On other hand, my husband and I think that LAC is a better choice for him (no TAs, great attention from prof. in a small-size classes). My husband’s first choice is Grinnell - it has great science programs and the fact that many of their students pursue to go for phD tells that they do a great job to teach their students. My first choice is Middlebury - it has the best academic rating in Princeton Review and something about this school attracts me and my gut is telling me… Though, my little concern is that Midd strength isn’t science so I am not sure how well they prep their students for med school acceptance, MCAT etc. Or, since there aren’t so many pre-med track students at Medd than at other two, maybe it could be better that not too outrageous competition is going!!! I’m just speculating here…
We all have our different first choice. S will visit all three colleges and we will ultimately have him make his own decision. But, we want to make sure he gets all the information about the three schools he needs to make a right decision.
We have been doing our study about these three schools, but I would greatly appreciate it if anyone currently enrolled, their parents, alumni, or anyone knowledgeable about these schools could give us any useful information about these schools to help our son make a good decision.
If your son can get into any of these schools, he’ll be fine. However, all three are very competitive, so he should definitely apply to some others as well.
If he is fortunate enough to be accepted by more than one of these, then consider fit and financial aid. A few other comments:
As you noted, LACs would likely have an advantage over WUSTL in terms of class size and undergraduate focus. Grinnell students are more likely to major in STEM fields than Midd students; on the other hand, Midd is about 50% larger than Grinnell, so the absolute numbers of STEM majors may be similar. Grinnell is noted for its extraordinarily large endowment (relative to enrollment), and some people find that they offer attractive financial aid. Grinnell’s location, in a small town in Iowa, is often perceived as less desirable by people outside the Midwest, so Grinnell has to work harder to attract people from the West and East Coasts.
Then congratulations – you’ve got three great choices, with no financial constraints. All of them are places that will provide fine undergraduate preparation for medical school, and I’m sure they all have strong med school placement. You can’t go wrong.
The “best” choice is the one that your son finds to be the best fit. There are certainly advantages to LACs, which you already seem to be aware of. On the other hand, some people would be very unhappy spending four years in small schools in tiny isolated towns like Grinnell IA or Middlebury VT. So WUSTL will be a better fit for some people.
Given that cost is not an issue, I think the decision should be based on things like:
Majors and courses offered
Curriculum style (Grinnell is fairly open, while Midd and WashU have the usual distribution requirements)
Environment: weather, setting (rural vs. urban), campus beauty
Social vibe (hippie, preppy, artsy, mix?; party/Greek scene; things to do around town)
Dorms and food (for best results, visit…)
I think if he decides based on fit, after doing some reading and taking some of these variables into consideration, he can’t go wrong. These are all outstanding schools, but they are different from one another in many ways – hence the importance of fit.
My husband went to Middlebury, and I went to Grinnell, and we both know many people who went to med school (one is now a family doctor in Middlebury). Both of these schools will prepare you well. I’m sure WashU would as well. I’d look more for the atmosphere that’s best for your child rather than worrying about prep for med school. The classes and advising will be great at all three. Middlebury is more preppy and Grinnell more artsy, but the students are equally friendly and intellectually engaged. Both are in isolated areas so studying is the main activity around. You can’t go wrong with any of the three, though. One thing about St. Louis, though, is that it gets VERY humid. I would check to see if the dorms are air-conditioned before signing up.
As others here, I’d recommend visiting each and deciding based on fit. After visiting, one will call to him more and that’s where he should go. He’ll be happiest there and do the best. Med school admission should take care of itself with these three schools.
I went to Grinnell and my son is starting there in August. I know a lot of Grinnellians that have had great success gaining admission at their choice of grad schools and professional schools. It served me well in that regard. The biggest factor my son cited in making his decision were the friendly, unpretentious students. He felt more at home there than most other schools. He also loved his class visits and overnight, the facilities, and the opportunities created by the endowment. The school is small and in a small town, but very diverse and international. There is a ton of stuff to do on campus. Personally, I liked the fact that all these interesting people were “captured” there rather than off roaming a large city in small groups. If a student wants to be anonymous, Grinnell may not be a good fit.
I spent two summers at Middlebury’s German School and can attest to the beauty of their campus and the town. My impression is that Middlebury students are generally preppier and more image conscious than Grinnell students, and also very happy with their school. If your son likes to ski, it would be hard to beat Middlebury. Middlebury was slightly more selective than Grinnell (16% vs. 18%) last year. Likely a function of a more desirable location.
I can’t help much with WashU. Let us know which he picks and why.
Ultimately, many WUStL students, regardless of the evident competition, seem to succeed with respect to their medical school goals, below appearing, along with the also excellent Grinnell, as a “Top Choice” for that ambition:
Some schools that have many pre-med students tend to weed out students (by organic chem class for instance) to try to keep their med school acceptance rate high.
As opinion, weeding may be a natural function related to students’ degrees of intrinsic interest in the subjects required in a pre-med curriculum. However, if your son finds appeal in fields such as chemistry, physics and literature, his shorter term accomplishments in courses in these topics will help propel him toward his longer term goal of becoming a doctor. I think this would be the case at any of the options available to him.
Quite frankly, most top schools are going to have a lot of competitive pre-med students, simply because a lot of high-achieving (and upper-middle-class) high school students want to be doctors. I went to a great small LAC and there were a lot of pre-med students there, too. (It’s the number two undergraduate producer of black female doctors in the country.)
Typically at large research universities, doctoral student teaching assistants may teach lab courses or recitation sections of bigger lecture classes, or they may assist professors in other ways (in one class with no lab courses, I supervised group projects, helped create tests and assignments and graded papers). Generally speaking TAs aren’t teaching their own classes. Occasionally advanced doctoral students may design and teach a few introductory classes, but in that case they are usually 4th year and beyond and they’re not that different from having new assistant professors teach anyway.
That said, I’m personally biased towards LACs myself. Wash U is a great school, of course, and is noted for its quality of life. But in college I did love the personal relationships with professors you easily develop in smaller classes, the tighter-knit campus community due to size and the more cooperative, collaborative atmosphere.
^At UW-Madison, TAs do not lead lectures; they lead weekly (much smaller) discussion sections and may lead labs. If that’s how it’s done at UW-Madison – a huge research university – I imagine Wash U doesn’t have TAs lecturing either.
I posted this under a similar thread on the Wash U page – apologies if you have seen already.
Sounds like your son has three great choices to look at. As others have pointed out, I encourage him to pick the one he is most comfortable with – that is where he will shine.
Our student is a sophomore at Wash U and absolutely loves the school and St. Louis. Student is from an East Coast urban area and likes being able to participate in the amenities of a mid-sized city (e.g., professional sports, great food scene, etc.). We are all very happy with the Wash U selection and experience so far. I’ve posted recently on student’s experiences in several threads so you will be able to see my comments.
Student is a Chemistry major / Great Books (Text and Tradition) / Latin Minor. Participates in Greek life and is in a position of leadership. Volunteers for several social organizations – especially during Spring and Fall breaks. Competes in interscholastic club sport. Is doing research at the Medical School (absolutely loves it).
Student volunteered for one of the national broadcasters during the 2nd debates hosted at Wash U this past October than was offered a paid internship with the same organization to work at the Inauguration in January.
Lined up a paid summer internship during chemistry research in St. Louis this summer and is very excited.
Loves the students – very collaborative and friendly. Freshman year was filled with study groups and TA-led small group sessions. Our student found the TAs to be very helpful and engaged. BUT all of the classes were taught by Professors – who were all very responsive with extensive office hour availability. I was amazed at the responsive emails that our Student received from professors. No TA taught classes. Class size has ranged from as few as 2 or 3 students to large lectures (General Chemistry, Organic, Calculus). There is a distinct lack of “cutthroat” climate at Wash U.
Student’s three room mates are all focused on going to Med School but are in three different majors. They have developed a great relationship and are very well rounded and involved. There are many great medical schools – and Wash U’s is relatively small, so chances are that most Wash U undergrads will go elsewhere for medical school. They all work very hard but have lives too!
Overall, I don’t think it is fair to say that Wash U has “too many” pre-med students. I can tell you that Wash U students in all areas of study work hard – and I personally know a recent Olin grad who certainly worked very hard. I am sure this is the case with Grinnell and Middlebury.
So glad to learn about WashU as well. Since I didn’t hear much about WashU, comparing to other two, I posted my thread under WashU as well. Thank you for your reply@Parche. You seem to know about WashU very much. When some questions come up, please let me ask you. Thanks again.
