Wasting time applying to elite schools?

Paying for College
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My daughter would like to study International policy/law and has a pretty good profile: 3.98/IB diploma - 4th/521
33 ACT
National qualifier Debate
National qualifier FBLA
Several other state and local awards
Community Service - 100 hrs

She is basically applying to elite schools
Tufts, Georgetown, BU, Wellesley, Smith, Vassar

Target
Reed, UW, St Andrews

Safety
KU,USF,Fordham

My question is, I have run many Net Price Calculators and come up with an EFC of like 60K. We have ~120K set aside. With an EFC that high it seems we can only probably afford KU on that list without taking on 100K in debt (which I won’t do). Is there any point to even applying to the reach or even target schools? There’s no way they give enough merit to get net cost to like 30K, right? We are queuing up scholarship applications, but that seems like a racket. Been told not to expect much there.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

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So - you ask great questions. The first thing I would ask is - ok, you have 120K set aside but most people also fund from current income - so is that an option?

Tufts, Gtown, Vassar, Reed, etc are need only.

So if you are being told you need $60K a year and you aren’t willing to pay, put your efforts elsewhere.

There are strong colleges that do have merit - Macalester, Brandeis, Washington & Lee (Johnson Scholarship) and the list goes on and on. Your safeties are interesting - I’ll assume you are from Kansas and they have a fine Honors College.

But you could also look at Indiana (the Hamilton Lugar School is wonderful) - and you’d get strong merit at Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Arizona State, U of South Carolina, Miami of Ohio, Ms State and Ole Miss (good IR). Florida State where you’d get an OOS waiver. Strong schools that have merit - but you would need to see if they stack with need or substitute with need - would be Miami of Florida, American, Denver (strong in IR). UGA is strong in IR. My daughter got a half OOS waiver - about $10K. Given IR will likely require grad school it is smart to keep costs down. Hendrix, in Arkansas, solid school - has a program to match your state flagship…so there are lots of opportunities to go for 20-30K a year - and many of these schools have wonderful Honors programs - FSU, U of SC, ASU and U of Arizona. Other privates with big merit are Bradley and Hofstra and you can go on their scholarship estimators.

With her stats, she needs to go to schools where she stands above the crowd - not with the crowd - and you’ll get a fine cost.

My daughter has stats like yours except a 32 on the ACT. She got into 17 of 21 she chose - turned down at Rice and UNC and then also Emory and W&M where she was on the waitlist. Washington & Lee was one of several prestigious schools she got into along with Miami (FL), Florida, and UGA. She got into U of SCs Honors College, tops in the nation as well as UGAs which is hard to get into.

Where’s she going? Her 16th “rated” school but the best fit - College of Charleston. She is both an International Scholar and a Charleston Fellow - their elite students. There she stands out whereas at most other schools, she’s one in the crowd. She’s in three special cohort programs and has no tuition as an OOS - well assuming she keeps up grades.

So my point is - your daughter has great stats and there’s nothing wrong with applying to elite schools. However, you are asking the right questions about money and you should eliminate any schools that do not offer merit aid if you cannot afford the $80K price tag. I did that - my daughter wanted Gtown and Cornell and I nixed them and she understood.
I wasn’t paying $80K when I could pay $30K.

But lots of great schools offer merit aid - the Vandys, Emory, Rice, WUSTL, USC. I won’t lie - it may be near impossible to get - but it’s that hail mary. But - they do offer.

But there are many great public and private schools - large, medium, and small - where you can also get an affordable education with her statistics. Those could be her reach/safety in case one of the top schools is unaffordable. But you are correct, your time is better spent going for a possible vs. a she’s not going even if she gets in.

Best of luck.

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Not the ones on this list. Though I see you added St Andrews. There are other options in England that are very affordable because the degree is 3 years. Why not apply to Oxford, if your predicted IB score is good enough (40+ out of 42)? Fordham is also plausible for merit.

There are also plenty of US schools that offer merit to get the price down to the $40K-$50K range, which should roughly match your budget, sometimes the price may be less. Some of those would be high reaches (eg USoCal), some would be auto merit (eg Arizona, Alabama) and some in between (eg GWU, CWRU). What is your state flagship?

We had this with our twins in 2018, no way could we justify paying $250K-$300K for college when instate flagships were ~$120K (fortunately we are in CA). We simply dropped need-only schools like Georgetown and focused on merit options plus the UCs. One ended up at UCLA and the other got a full ride at a lower ranking public flagship.

S was focused on public policy with strong grades and ECs (top 1%, class president, 4.0 GPA, 1540 SAT, 8 5s in APs, etc). His list was UCB, UCLA, GWU, American, CWRU, Macalester, Oxford (PPE), UCL and KCL (London) and he also applied for the ultra-competitive scholarships at UVA and W&M - he ended up at UCLA and has loved it there (didn’t get an Oxford offer) but apart from UVA/W&M (got in but didn’t get money) all those had total costs of ~$200K or less.

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We chased merit with S21 and ended up instate FSU
FSU has an OOS tuition waiver she would be an excellent candidate for
https://admissions.fsu.edu/first-year/scholarships/

University of Alabama 28000 guaranteed merit
Out-of-State Freshman Scholarships – Scholarships | The University of Alabama

Both of these would give you COA in low $20,000 range

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My song goes to Bama - engineering. He’s at the $26K level which was two years ago. Today it’s $28K + he gets another $2,500 for engineering whereas most schools charge. He actually turned down Purdue engineering which is near elite (his choice).

I’ll end up spending 60- $70K or so for four years…I haven’t even figured it out…but I have a lucky problem - I saved too much in the 529. Well I assume it’s lucky.

The OP and her parents are in great shape.

Everyone wants to go to the top ranked,e tc. but spending $60K, $80K a year sounds great til you have to stroke the check. The amount of stress that these parents must suffer through is immense.

My daughter had the OOS at FSU (was her 3rd choice), $30K at U of AZ (4th choice), OOS waiver + $500 at U of SC - she really liked and was in the (arguably) top Nation’s Honors College…all wonderful schools - interestingly she was turned down at FSUs Honors College but they have other programs to help get kids into small groups.

The good news is - the OP is going to have lots of great options because her interests and stats closely mirror my daughters. We applied to 21 - and I’d use all 20 Common App slots - lots of schools have no app fees, no extra essays and you never know what type of offer you’ll get!!

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Thank you all for the excellent responses, it is much appreciated.

We are in Kansas and I went to KU as well as my parents, uncles, nieces, etc. I was trying really hard not to pressure my D into that. She has a real affinity for the NW and NE and a strong dislike for the south. Not sure where that comes from as my wife and I love the south. Family vacations to OBX, Hilton Head, Charleston and all over Florida. Wouldn’t BU or Wellesley offer the possibility (probably slim) of getting to the 30-40 range? A little worried about the UK and Covid, but definitely considering. We could maybe fund some from income, but we have a 14 yr old S 529 we need to catch up some.

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Not Wellesley - they don’t give merit aid. Vasar and Tufts don’t either. BU and Smith (also Mt. Holyoke) do give merit scholarships. @tsbna44 has covered many of the suggestions I would have made. (Macalester, Brandeis, Denver - check out their Pioneer Leadership Program).

Some anti-south kids make an exception for New Orleans; Tulane has strong IR and International Development programs, as well as the Altman Program that combines IR and business. (I realize a hurricane week may not be the time to be selling NOLA though…)

UDelaware has the World Scholars Program, and she’d get lots of merit there. U of Arizona has a top-notch “PPEL” (philosophy, politics, economics & law) program in addition to IR; she’d get lots of merit + honors college.

If you’re looking at the UK, consider Canadian programs too.

It’s really smart to cull the list now based on what’s economically feasible. A lot of people kick the can down the road and then face a choice between breaking their kid’s heart after they get into a dream school, or taking on huge debt that they wouldn’t have considered until heartbreak came into the picture. The super-elites will be there for grad school!

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Don’t put yourself at risk financially. It’s great you see this with your child. If she likes the NE and NW, there are options as well - although the South is where your bang for the buck is. Their schools are also loaded with Northeasterners - Bama, U of SC, Charleston.

BU is gong to be a tough in - and you’re not going to get the merit you need. But that’s the hail mary school I was talking about. Wellesley does not provide merit aid - so if you cannot afford what they show on the NPC, you should not waste your time. Bryn Mawr offers merit, however.

If you like LACs, there’s some great ones in the NW to look at - Willamette, Lewis & Clark, Whitworth, Puget Sound, etc… A school like Utah has fantastic merit aid and is becoming more and and more diverse. If you can handle the midwest, schools like Beloit and Kalamazoo have solid aid. U of Portland as well.

In the NE, you can try schools like Trinity, Connecticut, Skidmore, Wooster, Allegheny, etc.

Get out the liberal arts colleges lists - and you have to get your mind off the top 40, etc.

You want merit aid - and you have to go where you stand out. The top schools - even down to Franklin & Marshall at like #40 - give need based.

The money is mainly in the South or Southwest - and you have to decide - if we can go for $30K a year, is the tradeoff to not be in the NE or NW worth it? Also, look at 2nd tier schools - Maine, UNH, UVM, UW, Western Washington, Oregon State or schools like Southern Oregon.

Apply to BU - but getting in is iffy and getting enough is not realistic but it is worth taking a shot. Brandeis too. A lesser school like Hofstra is going to get you more aid - and they’ll tell you up front. You might look at Syracuse and Rochester too but again, you don’t stand out at those schools - you’re one of many.

Just make sure your list includes schools you can afford as safeties and I would include some with auto merit. Take your daughter for a visit - when she sees that the top out of state representation at schools like Charleston, South Carolina, Florida State, etc. are NY/NJ and Arizona/Arizona State are brining in from all over, she’ll be surprised.

I would use all 20 common app slots - lots of schools have no app fee, no extra essays and you can self report your tests…Also, any school you have interest in, get on their email lists - google the college and request info. Many will give you fee waivers. I’d recommend setting up a new email address just for college. We started with 100 schools, applying to 21 - but it was good to see and read all the info…ok, i read it so i could guide my daughter.

Your daughter can have prestige with parental stress or she can have a wonderful school, with great classmates, a great education and parents who can breathe easy. But again, look at W&L - yes, it’s sort of South…but a full ride to 10% of the class. My daughter was a finalist for a full tuition (not full ride) - didn’t get but they have ample merit aid - and it’s all or none.

Good luck.

2022 Best Colleges with No Application Fee - Niche

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Also if your daughter is considering law school, only 2 things will matter: GPA and LSAT. Make the most affordable option for undergrad because most of the T3 (YHS) is need based FA only.

The rest of the T14, while there is some merit, they will still be looking at your income/assets and most of the aid will still be in the form of loans.

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My daughter with similar stats gets $17,000 I believe from UD (34 act, 3.9 gpa, 8th out of 300+). It’s still over $30,000 a year.

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Wellesley gives only need based aid. No merit aid.

BU is pricey. Their net price calculator is pretty accurate. Merit aid is competitive, not guaranteed.

I don’t think there is a way to get the current reach or target schools down to $30,000 a year.

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I dont know much about her major but with Fordham on her list, if NYC and merit aid is an interest, Pace gives outstanding aid to kids with her kind of stats. Fordham is not as generous. My S21 got over a 50% reduction in price with not quite as good stats from Pace but only a preformance based award from Fordham.

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Unfortunately, Fordham is not going to bring your cost down to 30k/year (you would pretty much need fa full tuition scholarship).

Personally, I would not even be able to justify attending Pace even a half tuition scholarship at Pace, if I lived in NYS. I just don’t think the school punches up to its price when you can get a better education at the SUNY; Albany, Bing, UB, Stony Brook, Geneseo for less money.

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Pace and those schools have very different locations and majors. My S21 is a performing arts major, those schools are not an option. And out of state they have very similar costs of attendance to Pace for a very different school experience when you add in all of the academic scholarships a kid with good statistics will get (my S had an SAT of 1430 and unweighted GPA of 3.7)

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Pace is great for a performance major, but the OP’s child isn’t a performance major.

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agreed, I dont know about pace for other majors, but she also isnt from NY or interested in rural schools, so if Fordam is on the list Pace seemed like a thought that give excellent merit!

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Really appreciate all the thoughts. I will have to have a heart to heart with my daughter and will look into a few other options, W&L and Trinity for sure, probably Lewis & Clark and Willamette. I’ve previously talked to her about USC and Alabama, maybe get her to reconsider. I could live with going up to 40s, not sure how much that changes the calculus tho.

I don’t think we will apply to any ivies as it would be a lottery ticket to get in and assume no merit. So only really rich kids and really financially challenged get to go to these schools?

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Or people whose parents have saved for college since the day their kids were born. Or people who have sufficient current income to pay out of current earnings or a combo of current earnings and savings.

We aren’t rich. Comfortable but not wealthy. We could have financed an Ivy education out of current earnings (the schools our kids attended were as expensive, and we did this). Two professional parents working full time made this possible.

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Don’t assume no merit at the ivies. There is no merit. And at many more schools.

Most top colleges and some 2nd tier like Franklin & Marshall are need based only.

Hence the GTOWNS and Tufts need to come off your list.

If you have need though and you say the NPC shows that, you’d get money that way.

You’d be amazed at how many kids are turning down top 20s for the public honors colleges. This is common. Sure you can spend 45k according to the NPC. but why if you don’t have to ? You have another kid to put in school .

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2016/11/06/education/edlife/survival-strategies-for-public-universities.amp.html

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@tsbna44, I agree with most of the super helpful information you have shared in this thread. However, University of Washington (UW) is definitely not generous with merit scholarships.

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