<p>Not in any way, shape (pun intended), or form. But I’ll summarize in a nice straight line. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>Loans are not “required” to get a college education. Nearly every student in this country would have some college choice available to them without borrowing, but they CHOOSE not to take that option.</p></li>
<li><p>Borrowing within the Stafford limits should be manageable for most students and/or their families. Many students CHOOSE to take these loans to add choices to their college education pool, and many are able to pay them back because they borrowed within their means…current or reasonably expected.</p></li>
<li><p>Borrowing beyond the Stafford limits is rarely recommended and usually not worth the risk. Those that CHOOSE to do so deserve whatever consequences come along with it…good or bad.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Wolverine,
It must be nice to live in your ivory tower wearing blinders about how many of the rest of the people in our country are living. I’m glad for you that you are not living paycheck to paycheck, but many of us are through no fault of our own.
Even state colleges are unaffordable to many, many families these days. Direct federal loans do not meet costs, and commuting is not always possible.</p>
<p>KKmama…By all means, feel free to jump in and make uninformed assumptions about my posts. Had you actually read them, you’d see that I never claimed state universities were affordable for all families. That was just my point. Too many people claim that they “need” to attend some particular level of university and thus they “need” to borrow more than they could possibly afford to do so. It’s just not the case. They “want” to attend a higher level of university, and who wouldn’t? The fact is that until people start accepting the reality of their situation, whatever financial level that entails, and choosing the best of the affordable options that are presented to them there will continue to be a self-created student loan problem. College prices are not going to come down any time soon, so you can choose the affordable option or roll the dice and go with excessive loans. If you choose to borrow beyond your means and can’t pay the loans back, suck it up and deal with the consequences. If common sense and financial responsibility equal an “ivory tower”, then I guess I’m guilty.</p>
<p>Silly me! I thought a public forum existed to allow people to jump in and state their opinions.</p>
<p>Private student loans are a necessary evil for some families if they want any chance at all of helping their children gain access to a better economic level than their parents attained. </p>
<p>Unless we want to follow the old British tradition of “recognizing our stations”. So sorry, you were born poor, so you need to suck it up and become a store clerk or a nursing assistant. Lucky you - since your father is a doctor, you have the means of becoming one too!</p>
<p>It’s all to easy for people who do not need something to say that it is unnecessary.</p>
<p>Stating your opinion is fine. Misrepresenting mine is not, yet you continue to do it. You don’t have a clue what sacrifices we’ve made or hardships we’ve endured over the last 27 years to manage to save anything to contribute towards our kids’ education, yet somehow that puts me in an ivory tower? That’s flat-out moronic.</p>
<p>Recognizing financial reality is nowhere near the same thing as “recognizing your station”, and I resent your implication that I said anything of the sort. My family didn’t have a pot to pee in as I grew up, and I worked hard my entire life, made responsible financial decsions, and stayed within our means to make sure we didn’t find ourselves in an unmanageable situation. If you want to teach your kids that financial irresponsibility is a “necessary evil” for anyone then feel free to do so…but it’s a huge load of crap. There’s always alternative ways to get things done and still succeed in life, but it’s oftentimes harder and not everyone wants to put in the effort. Your call.</p>
<p>^
I never said it is not risky. But I am willing to be the amount of my daughter’s student loans that nearly everyone on this thread who talks about how the rest of us should not take them does not need to take them.</p>
<p>I am also willing to bet that the majority of people who take student debts (except the ones hoodwinked by for-profit schools that in reality do nothing to prepare students for jobs) do so knowing the risk but also knowing that without the loans there is no chance of getting a college degree.</p>
<p>And I thank God that my younger daughter’s student loans do not require a co-signer because she is getting a medical degree… and that for this last year she doesn’t need any loans. Good kid that she is, she took an unneeded direct student loan for this fall semester and immediately used it to pay off the freshman year loan that did require her dad to cosign. Did not increase her debt any, and freed us from obligations.</p>
<p>Really? At the Cleveland Institute of Art and Eastern Nazarene College? $50K+ AVERAGE loans on 80%+ of students? They really understand the risks? Even the students with six figures debt?</p>
<p>@inpersonal: You’re a pleasant individual. We have another winner! another person who equates student borrowing as irresponsible borrowing! or does it only become irresponsible when they cannot get a decently paying job though no fault of their own?</p>
<p>Whatdidyou…Plan A for anyone who borrows money is to have enough income to pay the loan back when the time comes. If someone borrows $80K to earn a degree that they know will only earn them $30K salary that would indeed be irresponsible from the get-go, but that’s not normally the case.</p>
<p>The question then becomes, what was Plan B for paying back the loan? If you didn’t have one, then yes…that’s irresponsible. If you’re borrowing within Stafford limits the loan is completely on the student, but what was your backup plan? Did the student discuss with their parents/other family members the feasibility of options in the event a job wasn’t immediately available after graduation? Can Mom and Dad handle the payments in the short term so I don’t have to defer/default? Moving back home or moving in with another family member until the situation improves? You can make payments on a full Stafford limit loan ($317-ish per month) with a little to spare by working 20 hours per week at McDonald’s if you don’t have other obligations. Did they consider anything beyond “I’ll get a good paying job when I graduate”? If not, then yes…that’s irresponsible.</p>
<p>Just spoke with a friend yesterday at a free cooking class. He was talking about how he & his wife SOLD their home & spent a LOT of $$ & loans putting oldest kiddo thru college (said kiddo is now in 30s & they’re all STILL paying back loans). He has kiddos 2 & 3 still to complete college. 2nd one is at in-state flagship & 3rd one will be starting in the near future. He & spouse have few savings (tho he is an attorney) & will likely have to move to retire somewhere with lower cost of living than HI. It’s pretty sad to me – he dreams of being able to switch to cooking or some profession other than law but needs to pay the bills. Has no idea when he’ll be able to retire.</p>
<p>The first time I ever heard of parents borrowing money for college was when a family friend said that he took money out of his home equity to pay for his 3 kids to go to private schools… I remember thinking that was so odd. One of the D’s had a child during her college years and had to come home. The son got his GF pregnant and they quicky married. He did eventually finish college. The third child did graduate on time.</p>
<p>The whole thing just sounded very risky and, in fact, it was.</p>
<p>Scary to me when parents take out more loans on their homes or vs. drain their savings & retirements to pay their kids expenses. This is particularly true these days with increasing layoffs at all levels. I really worry about these people being forced out of their jobs due to economic and/or health issues, when they have exhausted their meager savings and if their kids do not get the degrees and jobs they envision. The expenses are tremendous and there are a LOT of unemployed and underemployed people of all ages throughout the country and world. It seems not a great time to be spending down nest eggs and borrowing more than one absolutely MUST.</p>
<p>Since this has come up a lot: Dependent undergrads can take out a maximum of $31,000 in stafford loans throughout their undergraduate education. For their 1st year of undergraduate studies they are only allowed to take out $5,500. Now remember how much you spent on your child’s 1st year of education (in tuition & living expenses), I bet it was more than $5,500. </p>
<p>It is easy to see numerous circumstances in which a student would need to borrow more than that. I don’t quite get the anger directed towards these students. You are making a bet that a college education will pay off (we’re constantly told it will), sad thing is even students who work their butts off and get top grades are often underemployed when they get out, possibly because they chose a lesser program to save on costs or decided against that summer internship out of town due to living expenses. </p>
<p>A lot of parents had their educations paid for by their parents (when it was alot cheaper). Many of them want to pass on the favor, allow their children to get the traditional college experience, and desire to help. This desire contributes to parents encouraging their children to go to a 4 year university, live in the dorms, play intramural sports,…etc, even when it may not be the low cost option. </p>
<p>Although scary, and not the course of action I would take at all, I understand why it happens. And who are we kidding HImom, many of these parents have less than $10K in retirement savings to begin with. </p>
<p>They are already used to spending beyond their means, and view their children’s education as a good reason to continue to do so.</p>
<p>@Whatdidyou
Student debt is not irresponsible per se. It becomes irresponsible when the student borrows more that he/she can realisticaly expect to pay back. I do not buy the “cannot get a decently paying job though no fault of their own?” If the student thinks that this could be possible, then the student should only borrow less-than-decently amounts of money.
If I expect to go to Law School and get a decently paying job, does this entitles me to rack up tons of debt? If the job is not there at the end, is everything okay if I dump the burden on your (an the other taxpayers/borrowers) laps? Is it truly not a fault of my own?</p>
<p>“Student debt is not irresponsible per se. It becomes irresponsible when the student borrows more that he/she can realisticaly expect to pay back.”</p>
<p>@Inpersonal: That makes no sense. It is completely dependent on if the student can find stable employment afterwards. For most students - even students with very small amounts of loans - ability to pay back is dependent upon getting a job that pays enough to cover living expenses & loan payments. There are PLENTY of students who can “realistically” expect to pay loans back IF, and only if, they get that decent, not amazing, job. </p>
<p>“If the student thinks that this could be possible, then the student should only borrow less-than-decently amounts of money.”</p>
<p>It’s ALWAYS possible (especially in this economy). So your solution is: don’t borrow period - unless you’re rich of course. </p>
<p>“If I expect to go to Law School…”</p>
<p>We’re not talking about law school here. I fully agree with you on this matter, only students from rich families should go to law school. Period. I’m just not willing ot say the same thing about regular undergraduate degrees in what are usually considered employable majors (a relative term nowadays, i know!), seems like others think we should start moving towards that direction though.</p>