<br>
<br>
<p>Very good point.</p>
<p>I went to college for a year and then went to work and then took
courses here and there, mostly paid for by various employers and got
my degree many years later. There’s no rule that you have to do it
in the traditional four-year style (that’s now more like the five
and six year style).</p>
<p>wolverine- how about basic tuition? At my public state U, it’s 13k for tuition for a year. That’s without ANY cost of living or other expenses. Without loans, it’s impossible for low income kids.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Is there a part-time option? At son’s school, the part-time school is $330/credit hour.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>True. However, few companies these days invest in their employees and their education. And at the rate that prices are spiraling upward, it could be a lot cheaper to rush through college as quickly as possible.</p>
<p>^^ Still 460/credit hour (same as full time). In a crappy economy. It’s not pretty. </p>
<p>It’s well over a grand for just a 3 credit class.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>But the idea is to force colleges to lower prices through market means so college prices should go down.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>That’s a lot less than having to come up with $13K.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Everyone just go part time? Could work at commuter schools, not so well at college towns in the middle of nowhere.</p>
<p>If every high school graduate and full-paying college student were to decide to take a gap year as a sort of temporary boycott, how quickly would colleges start to respond with cut expenses and lowered prices? Might a single year be enough if enrollment dropped 40-50%?</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>I think that it would take a year for colleges to respond and I think that it would be very messy. Bubbles popping are fairly ugly. Institutions take some time to respond.</p>
<p>romani…You missed my point. I was saying that even in the worst case scenario where Stafford loans might go away, even the lowest income student would have at least some option available to them to get a college education. Is it the choice everyone would want to take? Certainly not, but I disagree with those that claim a college education is “out of reach”. Regardless of their income level, any student would be eligible for merit aid at your school (MSU IIRC) wouldn’t they? Perhaps they could make up the difference via merit scholarships…who knows? But why do you assume they automatically should be allowed to attend MSU just because they meet academic standards?</p>
<p>A college education is a product just like anything else. There are Mercedes and BMW dealerships everywhere, but they’re not in my price range. I’m driving a 6 year old Ford Focus, because that’s what I can afford. </p>
<p>I’ve said before (as I noticed you did as well) that borrowing within the Stafford limits should be manageable for nearly everyone, and is not something I’m necessarily opposed to. But using your example, even adding the Stafford amounts to a full Pell still doesn’t make it at MSU or many other schools. So instead, they need to find their Ford Focus college and make the best of their opportunity.</p>
<p>Fwiw, I had over a 3.8, 33ACT and got no merit from my school. So no, it’s not really a great fall back</p>
<p>romani…Sounds like MSU is just as stingy as UM when it comes to merit scholarships. But that doesn’t change the basic premise. If a product is unaffordable, regardless of how much you may want it, that unaffordability doesn’t change. No matter what, there are always going to be some universities that are simply not affordable for many, if not most, families. It may stink, but it is what it is. Choose the best option that’s affordable for a given situation and excel at it.</p>
<p>Romani…</p>
<p>I thought MSU gives good merit for instate students with those stats? If not, then there are other schools that would have. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I agree. The cost of college should NOT be looked at from the view of COA. For many families (even the middle/upper middle class), the affordable choice is doing a CC for two years, and then transferring to the local public…commuting all four years. Even in the priciest states, that education would probably be about $40k TOTAL for four years of tuition. For students in states with cheaper tuition, the cost could be $20k TOTAL for four years of tuition.</p>
<p>I do think that Stafford Direct loans need to change. Instead of having the current max individual years, I would prefer that the following option be available.</p>
<p>frosh $1000 - $2000 sub loans (unsub for those without need)
soph $1000 - $2000 sub loans (unsub for those without need)
junior $13k-14k mix of sub and unsub
senior $13k-14k mix of sub and unsub
Total…$30k</p>
<p>the above option would allow most students to go to a CC for the first two years, and then go to local state school for the last two. Costs that are beyond the loan amounts could be covered with summer jobs and part-time school year jobs. Their debt would end up being about the same as the typical loan total, but the unsub loans would only be accumulating for the last two years for those with need.</p>
<p>*There are a lot of rules & conditions for the forgiveness program:</p>
<p>Obama Student Loan Forgiveness</p>
<p>It’s worth a read and as it exists is GENERALLY capped at forgiveness of up to $45,000 after 20 years of on-time payments.
*</p>
<p>Even this plan isn’t a bed of roses for those struggling.</p>
<p>I was recently sitting in the cafe of a big-name bookstore. One of the baristas was looking over some sheet she got regarding the pay-back of her student loans (she’s in default). Her degree is in some kind of Early Childhood Education…I don’t know the reason why she’s not working in that field. Maybe it doesn’t pay more/much more than she’s earning as a Barista with tips???</p>
<p>She’s been offered 2 options, including one somewhat like the above where her payments are spread out over 20 years. She says that she can’t afford that option either, because she has so little money left-over each month. </p>
<p>She was a full Pell student who got full Stafford and Perkins loans. Her debt has grown to between $40k-50k. </p>
<p>I didn’t tell her this, but her debt would have been lower IF she had commuted to a CC for two years, and then transferred to a local state school. Instead, she “went away” for all 4 years…borrowing much of the costs. Her total education costs would have been 1/3 or less if she had chosen the CC to local univ route. She could have done nearly all of it on her Pell Grants!</p>
<p>For what it’s worth: my nephew was offered a full ride to MSU. His GPA was about a 3.8 and he was a NMF. He chose Michigan instead which only gave him $1,500. His brother chose WSU which came him a full ride including a semester overseas and a computer. He took the offer.</p>
<p>Mine wouldn’t apply to either place because they were afraid that if they got the same offers, I would make them take it :). Both went to UofM. One received full tuition and the other only the $1,500. But they loved it and we could afford it.</p>
<p>I had outside scholarships which is how I’m able to afford msu. That and Stafford loans. </p>
<p>My point is still that low income kids NEED Stafford loans even to go to a cc. I’m not trying to make this about me. I’m trying to make this about low income kids who want an education. They can’t all get merit for obvious reasons and I’m not willing to sacrifice their futures for the CHANCE that prices might go down. Eventually.</p>
<p>Don’t get me wrong college prices are WAY too high and rising WAY too rapidly, but what are the consequences of them cutting budgets. They need to pay professors, provide technology and other laboratory equipment, build and maintain classrooms and dorms, pay a staff to maintain all their services. If they are forced to cut costs, then they will most likely do so, not by simply cutting a few corners, but by cutting staff, cutting purchases and ultimately that means cutting the number of students that they are capable of accepting.</p>
<p>Also speaking of how affordable a college education is, there are som things that as a society we are taught it is OK to borrow for. Personally I paid cash for my car, but how many people do that? Most (middle ro mid-upper income) people think a $20,000 car is affordable, but that is by expecting a car payment. How many people pay cash for their homes? I know I live in a $130,000 home and I sure wouldn’t live here if I had to pay cash up front. By saying that stafford loans should be reduced to $1-2000 for the first 2 years so everyone can go to community college is like saying everyone should just live in an apartment until they can afford to pay cash for a home. A possibility? certainly, but not really reasonable in our society. Instead people who purchase homes try to decide what is reasonable for them and what kind of payments that can make. It is not unreasonable to borrow some money for a college education. The maximum amount of government loans an undergrad can get is under $60,000 - the payments over the 20 year payment period would be the equivalent of a car payment. Yes, students and parents need to be taught what their payments will be and how long they will owe that money, but ultimately they need to make the decision if they feel the experience and benefit is worth several hundred dollars per month, the people who borrow $100,000-200,000 either have additional private loans which they had to prove income and credit worthiness to receive or they have attended graduate or professional school and (in theory) should be earning a higher income. </p>
<p>Personally I’d like to see the Stafford loans raised slightly so that a 4 year degree at a state flagship is possible for everyone and then see private loans abolished - it is really with the private loans that people get into SERIOUS financial trouble.</p>
<p>The reality is that we have all these kids going to college, and not enough going into trades. Anyone know how much it costs to hire a plumber these days? Or an electrician? There is demand for the trades, but we’re so intent of offering everyone a college education that kids who would do well in a trade are not heading that direction, or some are thinking they’ll take a shortcut and learn their trade in college (or at a for-profit trade school).</p>
<p>This is at least in part a result of eliminating tracking in high school. I agree we shouldn’t make a kid choose when he starts HS, and that all kids should have a solid education that could lead to college, but we should identify those whose talents lie in other areas, and encourage them. The kid who isn’t doing to well in academic classes, but has an affinity for cars… the kid who seems able to take everything apart and put it back together without a manual. Do they really need to sit in a class at a community college, or would they be better off working as an apprentice? </p>
<p>We need to stop ranking our high schools based on the percentage of students attending college, because that’s not the only path to success. If we are going to look at the percentage moving on to college, perhaps we should look at the percentage who do so successfully - who complete their programs of study (Associate or Bachelor, or certificate). But more than anything we need to pull back from the model where high school is only a stepping stone to college.</p>
<p>jrcsmom - private loans will never be aboloshed. Maybe they won’t be called “student” loans, but they will still be out there. People take personal loans for all sorts of reasons, education just being one.</p>
<p>I find it almost a slap in the face, that a parent would think it is uneccesary to co-sign for their child. If you raised your child to be responsible and make an amicable agreement on payment then ok, there should be no problem. I had this problem with my mother, except I knew to pay back my loans timely and she agreed to help me. My brother was one to have my mom on his loan and she got tired of the calls from Sallie Mae and eventually just began paying it to back them off. Eventually that stopped and they hit my brother’s credit. But my problem is hearing parents complain about the loans, yet no one was helping the student when they were facing being dropped from their classes. Everyone says get a loan, but no one wants to talk about repayment. You can’t expect your child to carry the burden alone, it’s almost like an investment. Avoid all of the crisis and just start a savings as soon as possible BEFORE they start college, its that simple.</p>
<p>The way it works these days is that MOST students can afford to start college. There are community college programs within a commutable distance for nearly everyone. There is the problem that some kids do not have access to regular transportation if their parents can’t or won’t commit to driving them to classes, there is no public transportation, the student can’t find someone going there to give him a ride (maybe for payment) and the student has no driver’s license or prospect of getting a car. Unlike K-12, there is no obligation to provide accessibility to higher education.</p>
<p>The next issue is that once the courses at the local option are exhausted, taking the next step to a 4 year degree can be expensive. Even if there is a state school within commuting distance, the distance can be even farther away. Also, at this point, a student may have certain programs in mind that are not available at any state school within any commutable distance and those programs may be the best to take in terms of job potential and pay. I know some folks here whose kids have finished college and after a few years of low paying non career path work, have expressed interest in some career fields that are well worth exploring. But a problem is that they are not programs one can get locally except at very high prices at private schools. The state programs are such a distance that one has to board there making those expensive as well. And we are not talking rocket science here. ALso sometimes these programs are highly competitive and gaining entry to ANY of them is not a given. </p>
<p>So there is a place for outside loans. The problem is that people are not thinking them through and then crying when they have to “pay the Piper”. What a wise old tale that is!</p>