<p>There was a post I saw of a student whose family was “middle class”, not able to pay much if any toward college due to a number of issues. The student went to two years of community college, got great grades and was accepted into a nursing or other such program that has a good possibility of jobs and good earnings. The program is private and not within commuting distance. There are no programs of the sort that are close by and less expensive, and the state flagship did not accept the student for their program. </p>
<p>In a case like that, I can see a family giving it a go with cosigned or parent loans since the student has shown s/he can do college work, has a clear goal in mind that has a good chance of payback. However, if the student changes plans and decides to become a philosophy or other such major, there should be a change in financing. It’s no accident that univerisities provide stipends and fellowships for the liberal arts and departmental academic studies for grad students but expect professional study students to borrow the costs. Lenders are not going to be lined up to give money to Philosophy or other such grad students. Take heed of that. My friend should have insisted that her DD transfer to a local public school if she wanted to switch to a major without the potential payback percentages as the program that was initially her course of study.</p>
<p>This is my thought. Nobody should co-sign for a loan that he or she couldn’t pay back with little trouble if not relative ease. These things have a habit of sneaking up on you and biting you on the bottom.</p>
<p>“The person who applies for this position should have a great amount of experience in a Machine shop environment. This person should have experience using Surfcam, and SolidWorks (or similar) software, and an extensive background using “G” and “M” code programming. The person hired for this position will be able to Program, Set-Up, and Operate a variety of Mori-Seiki CNC Lathes. Experience with Prototrak type lathes is a definite plus.”</p>
<p>This person deserves to be paid more than a manager. But I bet that the manager who manages these workers earns more.</p>
<p>On a related issue (and I do not want to sidetrack this thread), the person who knows all of these things seems to be more qualified than many undergraduates with those “not to be named but you know what they are” soft majors.</p>
<p>“Precision machining provides a practical basis for an engineering or business degree.”
I think that many people prefers to go directly to the business degree.</p>
<p>I have to balance the perspectives of CalDud and Cellardweller.</p>
<p>For many years prior to entering college, I often reminded Lake Jr. that I financed college through scholarships, a few hours each week at an on campus Work-Study job, and summer earnings doing “dirty jobs.” I was a good student, so my scholarships were substantial. I never asked my parents for a cent.</p>
<p>I greatly fear the ball and chain (anchor is more like it) of Student Loans, which I have counseled Lake Jr. to use judiciously and as little as feasible. I help Lake Jr. with tuition costs, but all students also need to learn the value of earning their own way, at least in part.</p>
<p>I’m not convinced that students NEED to “learn the value of earning their own way,” other than it can be a salve for the consciences of parents/relatives who want their kids to have some “skin in the game.” I felt our kids have done their best, even though we didn’t require them to spend any of THEIR assets to go to their U. We would much rather that they save their assets toward buying a place to live and/or other needs than their UG education, but we’re all different (& our kids are too).</p>
<p>This can be learned with part-time and summer jobs and parents can certainly allow the kids to keep the proceeds for their start in the real world. It’s similar to the approach that many parents have in charging their kids rent to live at home after college and then give them their rent back once they move out.</p>
<p>LakeWashington–One thing that has changed between the time you went to college and now is that the cost of college has risen much faster than salaries. It is great that you worked, received scholarships and never asked for a cent from your parents–but that is much harder to do now.</p>
<p>When I went to college, my private undergraduate college tuition, room and board totaled about $5,000 a year. When I later graduated from law school, my starting salary was $40,000 a year.</p>
<p>Now, many (not all) colleges cost about $50,000/year, 10 times as much as they did 30 years ago. As far as I know, nowhere in America can a new attorney earn even 5 times as much as 30 years ago, and many can’t find a job at all.</p>
<p>I recognize that starting salaries after graduate school aren’t applicable to many students considering student loans, but that’s the info I have. The fact is that it is just much more difficult for most students to earn undergraduate degrees without help from parents than it was in the past.</p>
<p>Yes, I have also heard of some family members who charge child care “fees” & then use those amounts towards tuition for the kiddo’s tuition down the road. Any “forced” savings of this nature can be helpful for the kids who might otherwise not be as disciplined about savings.</p>
<p>We have not chosen to do this for our kids. Our S has moved out with his full-time job & is a very good saver. We have not had to pay much for him since he graduated in 2010. We feel very fortunate that we were able to pay forward college educations–paying for our kids to have them as our folks helped us be able to fund ours before.</p>
<p>Yes, it’s certainly true that the exorbitant increase in tuition, both at privates and publics, has made college costs far exceed the ratio to income that was prevalent when I was a high school senior. My alma mater was quite expensive then and today, which is why I initially declined to apply. You’re right, back then an expensive college was affordable with a combination of scholarships/grants, work-study, savings and a reasonable student loan even in an so-so economy come graduation. No longer. By the way, whatever happened to the private college mantra “…we don’t want to be a 'rich man’s school only?” I think that ‘need blind admissions’ has dissappeared even at my alma mater.</p>
<p>As for charging rent, for better or worse, I just wouldn’t have the heart to do that.</p>
<p>I think if we are fortunate enough to have kids who will save, it is best to let them try to work out their budget instead of pocketing their money that we “may” later “surprise” them with to help them out after they are back out on their own.</p>
<p>I had one who was tight with money as a child and one whose money burned a hole in his pocket. The one whose money used to burn a hole in his pocket still likes to spend, but saves a lot as well. The other one seems to have done a complete reversal which i keep hoping will re-reverse some time soon. Hopefully today, or tomorrow at the latest.</p>
<p>I’d say this is entirely on the consumers - you sign a paper saying you will pay if someone else doesn’t, you better darn well plan that you have the money to pay off that loan. Who knows what could happen to that person.</p>
<p>^^Completely agree. I know what cosigning a loan means, which is why I would never do it. My daughter did a one hour personal finance class when she was 19 and when she learned about what cosigning meant said she would never do it or ask anyone to do it for her. Maybe everyone should have to do that class.</p>
<p>What *do *people think they are doing when they cosign?</p>
<p>BCEagle91, when I said that BIL was married to SIL, I meant during the time the loans were taken until SIL’s death (as I stated). BIL received life insurance proceeds for SIL, which of course did not have to be used to take care of her debts. By the way, I still claim several in-laws that are technically no longer in-laws due to divorce.</p>
<p>This was for private high school for the children. One graduated and is now a stay at home mom, and the other did not graduate (and now has three kids under the age of 3). Neither of the kids will ever have anything to repay this, and I doubt they would ever give it a thought.</p>
<p>If a parent co-signs private loans for a student with the expectation of being able to pay them off if necessary, what happens if the parent loses a job or suffers a financial reversal because of a health crisis or disability? Then those loans are your child’s lifelong and undischargeable responsibility, and there is nothing you can do about it. I would never want to put my child at that kind of financial risk.</p>
<p>If you can borrow money in your own name to help your child pay for school, just do that instead and leave your child out of it. I don’t think any student’s name should ever be on a loan exceeding the Stafford maximums.</p>
<p>@HIMom - The things you have cited are the reasons why my spouse and I have only cosigned on those loans we are CONFIDENT that we can pay back if needed. My kids have been awarded some low-payment, INTEREST FREE loans that you have to begin paying on when the loan is received…no deferrment. We cosigned on those, and some very tiny emergency loans.</p>
<p>1) I read an article where a young man had died, and his parents, who had co-signed his student loan, were being required to pay it off. People don’t realize that NOTHING - not even DEATH - discharges a student loan. Bankruptcy will solve everything else, but not a student loan.</p>
<p>2) In this country our schools do NOT teach our kids basic personal finance and economic survival skills. When I was in hs in the 1970’s in NJ, we had to take a 9 week course called “Consumers Ed” in order to graduate. The class taught us how to fill out a 1099A, how to balance a checkbook, what to look for in a used car, how to plan/pay for a funeral, the difference between a debit card and a credit card, what a mortgage is and how it works, etc. In today’s era of standardized testing I’m sure that class has gone by the wayside - which is a darned shame. I work at a private hs, and this year we’ve added an “Applied Math” class for seniors who don’t want to take calculus. It will be a combination of statistics, basic economics, and personal finance. I think it should be called “Financial & Mathematical Literacy for Life” and we should require it for ALL students. THEN they’d know to ask what payments will look like on $100k of student loans! </p>
<p>There is a lot of “magical” thinking that goes on about college. All anyone tells kids (and parents) is “Go to college. It’s a good thing. You can’t make a living unless you go to college.” And it seems like <em>everyone</em> has student loans. Hey, a $10k loan doesn’t sound so bad… until you realize that $10k is for ONE year and college costs rise every year. But who wants to think about that when your dream school is dangling within your reach?</p>