<p>“I absolutely DO blame the consumers! Not that the banks don’t share the blame, but it is every person’s responsibility to understand what they are signing when they accept a loan and to be very certain that they have the ability to repay it. There are no free lunches.” </p>
<p>Saying, “don’t sign loans if you can’t afford to pay them back” is stupid. They are taking out loans because they don’t have money. Thats why student loans exist in the 1st place. </p>
<p>When they’re taking out the loans they are assuming that they are gonna get a decent paying job that will cover living expenses and loan payments. You dont know what is gonna happen in the future. </p>
<p>You seem to be arguing that only students & their families who can afford to pay the loan payments and living expenses even if they don’t get a steady decent paying job afterwards should be eligible to take out loans. Obviously you’re in the 1% and don’t have any sympathy for the rest of us.</p>
<p>Would be nice but I think most of us are NOT in the 1%. Nearly everyone I know has to budget carefully, give up things, defer many things, and make a lot of choices in order to finance educational expenses. Taking on debt that CANNOT be discharged by death or bankdructy that you have no ability to repay, now or in the near future does not seem like a way of helping yourself or your loved ones to a better life.</p>
<p>There are more and less expensive ways of getting an education. This fixation on “dream schools at all costs” is part of the problem and promotes folks digging themselves & their loved ones into awful, deep holes. I think it is a lose-lose proposition–for the student and family. That is what many of us are saying.</p>
<p>My D went to a local CC–it saved us a LOT of money. Our S went to a U that offered him significant merit aid, learned to love his safety, where he obtained a good education & later a good job. </p>
<p>Especially in these uncertain economic times, taking on huge amounts of non-dischargeable debt is irresponsible–for the student and anyone who co-signs or cares about that student.</p>
<p>^ I agree in part. I think anyone that pays full cost to go to a 4 year university instead of cc is a moron, unless they have wealthy parents who will pay for the whole thing. </p>
<p>"Especially in these uncertain economic times, taking on huge amounts of non-dischargeable debt is irresponsible–for the student and anyone who co-signs or cares about that student. "</p>
<p>Huge is relative. The student the story has 26K in outstanding debt, much less than many others. In reality it takes a huge amount of nonchargable debt to got to college in the 1st place, especially if you don’t have someone paying your way for you. It’s not necessarily irresponsible as it is often necessary, even if you go to community college. To pretend otherwise and blame the consumer is foolish. You might as well banish all lower income students from going to college.</p>
<p>I think most in CC agree that loans of about $25K or so (which is about the Stafford limit) are not unreasonable, but much higher amounts that ARE taken on can put A LOT of peole in a deep hole for a very, very lnog time.</p>
<p>*I am frankly surprised with some commenters suggesting that parents should not co-sign for their own children’s education. I can see the argument for not co-signing for distant relatives but not investing in your own family feels to me not only heartless but also shortsighted. *</p>
<p>Well, for one thing, those who have more than 1 child could find themselves unable to qualify to co-sign for Child #2’s or #3’s loans because the parents are still obligated for Child #1’s loans. </p>
<p>I don’t think it’s a good idea to co-sign Child #1’s loans so that s/he can go where s/he wants, but then tell the younger ones, "uh, sorry, you’ll have to go to an affordable school because I can’t qualify for any more loans.</p>
<p>Not only that, but it’s very hard to predict exactly how successful our great kids will be. One of my friend’s D ( a super sweet and very intelligent girl) became pregnant her junior year of college. She kept the baby. She moved from her dorm to an apt. Everything is costing more (child care, diapers, etc). It will take her at least a semester longer to graduate. when she does graduate (Comp Science), she may get a good paying job, but not enough to pay back big loans while supporting a small child (the bio-dad is a poor student so no child support and NOT involved).</p>
<p>Thankfully her parents are helping out and she doesn’t have loans, but if her parents had co-signed big loans imagine what they might be facing? Sure they would have co-signed as an “investment” in their very smart D, but in the end, their D would not likely be able to pay that money back.</p>
<p>And what about the kids that change majors? A parent may agree to co-sign big loans for the engineering student with the idea that s/he’ll make a large salary upon graduation. But, then the student changes majors to something that won’t pay nearly as well? </p>
<p>The point is that no parent really knows how financially successful their 18 year old child will be.</p>
<p>IMO, co-sign a loan, or don’t. Take out parent loans, or not. But whatever you do, don’t whine about it later. People should educate themselves before they enter into any debt. I know, I know…people don’t do that, but there is no excuse to taking on any loan that you cannot afford to pay back. Perhaps there should be mandatory consumer education required before taking out any loan although that would just raise the cost of those loans.</p>
<p>i think the government should either get out of giving aid (tuition will go down) or atleast makes requirements to receive aid like top 50% of your class…</p>
<p>“there is no excuse to taking on any loan that you cannot afford to pay back.”</p>
<p>I don’t think you get it. College is not affordable for most people. The fact that they need to take out loans implies that they don’t have money. You take out a student loan with the hope/understanding that you will be able to get a decently paying job so that you CAN afford to pay it back in the future. By using your reasoning, loans should only go to students who are already wealthy (AKA come from wealthy families). </p>
<p>"I don’t think it’s a good idea to co-sign Child #1’s loans so that s/he can go where s/he wants, but then tell the younger ones, “uh, sorry, you’ll have to go to an affordable school because I can’t qualify for any more loans.”</p>
<p>Is there such a thing as an affordable school? lol. What is your view on a family co-signing for their children’s loans for going to a 4 year university after graduating from community college? This happens often and often the parents cannot “afford” to pay it back if their children don’t get good jobs afterwards (which is very likely to happen in this economy; especially when said students go to the cheapest nearby public university).</p>
<p>My UC professor friends tell me about undergrad students who manage without excessive loans by working near-fulltime jobs. Sometimes it’s while also taking classwork (in challenging majors, to boot). Sometimes it means taking off a semester/quarter/year to build the bank back up. By no means easy, but it can be done. Some students have no other option: parents don’t qualify as cosigners. </p>
<p>Whatdidyou, if I’m remembering right you’re an accountant. I can’t imagine any responsible financial advisor recommending that parents take on nondischargeable debt that is beyond their means to repay.</p>
<p>Yes it is. It’s not easy, but most people can do it without crushing debt. We have this “ideal” college experience that people refuse to part with, causing the debt. Debt is only a short term solution that is going to cost a LOT more in the long run.</p>
<p>Is there such a thing as an affordable school? lol. What is your view on a family co-signing for their children’s loans for going to a 4 year university after graduating from community college? This happens often and often the parents cannot “afford” to pay it back if their children don’t get good jobs afterwards (which is very likely to happen in this economy; especially when said students go to the cheapest nearby public university).</p>
<p>During the 2 years that the student is at the CC, he should be working as much as possible during the summer and part-time during the school year to set aside money to commute to the local state school…supplemented by Stafford loans and more summer work and part-time work.</p>
<p>Low income students will also get Pell Grants.</p>
<p>parents who aren’t low income should try to figure out how they can (at least) contribute a few thousand per year…either by cutting back, working more hours, taking on a part-time job, etc.</p>
<p>Whatdidyou…There are indeed affordable schools for people of nearly all income levels and situations. Just because it’s not the university you WANT to attend doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to borrow ridiculous amounts of money to attend some other school. If the only affordable alternative for a student is to attend a CC while living at home, then you make the most of that opportunity. Gambling the financial futures of a student and their family by borrowing unmanageable amounts is just plain foolish and unnecessary, especially when there are almost always more affordable (if less attractive) alternatives.</p>
<p>These are choices which these families make. If they choose poorly, then so be it. Deal with the consequences. Don’t expect anyone to feel sorry for you. Access to higher education is available to everyone, but no one ever said ANY student should be able to attend ANY university that might accept them. That’s a ridiculous premise.</p>
<p>From a financial standpoint, a college education should be viewed the same as any other product on the market. You buy the best product that fits your budget. When it comes to universities, every student can improve their options through their own efforts. Merit scholarships based on GPA/test scores are potential options for anyone who meets the criteria. If a high performing student is also from a low income family, there are even more schools with money to offer. Evaluate all the options that your particular family/student situation opens up, and choose the best one that is affordable. Most people on these forums would agree that borrowing within the maximum Stafford limits of approximately $27,500 over 4 years should be manageable for nearly everyone. If that additional amount opens up even more alternative for someone…great. Have at it. But please stop with the hyperbole that “college is not affordable for most people”. Are 4 year, live on campus universities grossly overpriced? Absolutely!! But those types of schools are niceties, not necessities.</p>
<p>My kids have federal student loans in their own names. Not the max happily, but nevertheless the payments are more than enough for young people starting their lives. If either of them had wanted to take out more debt (which they didn’t), I would have very strongly discouraged it and would not have cosigned loans. Quite apart from the risk to me, I would have been very against them taking out such large loans. Now I would have taken a loan in my own name if i could afford to repay it, but I would not be willing to see my kids in that sort of debt so cosign - no. </p>
<p>
Cosigning a loan is not investing in a child’s future, it is allowing the child to take on debt. If a parent can afford to to pay this sort of loan then they should take it in their own name.To me, allowing a young person who does not really understand the consequences to take out a very heavy debt load is what is heartless and shortsighted. Part of being a parent is to sometimes have to say no.</p>
<p>I don’t think debt is good! I think that college is one of the few things that taking out debt is often needed, and it’s naive to say that anyone who can’t afford college (AKA people who need loans) shouldn’t take out loans and not expect it to have a negative impact on society. </p>
<p>I believe people should be smart about it. Go to community college and then transfer to a good public school in their state or a private school with good aid that is within driving distance to family. Also, major in something that actually has a defined job market. Even with that though, loans are still needed and students don’t always get good jobs. </p>
<p>“most people can do it without crushing debt.”</p>
<p>That depends on your definition of crushing. For the parents in OP’s story, 26K was crushing debt, and you pick up that kind of debt quite easily. </p>
<p>“My UC professor friends tell me about undergrad students who manage without excessive loans by working near-fulltime jobs. Sometimes it’s while also taking classwork (in challenging majors, to boot). Sometimes it means taking off a semester/quarter/year to build the bank back up. By no means easy, but it can be done. Some students have no other option: parents don’t qualify as cosigners.”</p>
<p>Yes, there are things students can do to ease the burden. I was able to work full time for my 1st two years and manage (although I’m very motivated and pretty smart too ;)). However not everyone is able to do that while keeping their grades up. Even less so once you start taking intermediate and upper level coursework. </p>
<p>Gap years are possible (although student loan payments will kick in) if you can find an okay job (good luck in this economy) during the gap to support yourself while paying off loans. I think gap years can be difficult socially. Also, many students who have gap years end up never coming back for a variety of reasons. And I’d imagine that taking multiple gap years while in college would be a bit draining. </p>
<p>Ultimately many (most) students end up rolling the dice. Working their butts off in school, and hoping & praying that they’ll get a good job afterwards that will pay enough to pay off student loans. Maybe I’m wierd but it’s hard for me to fault them or their families for that. (Now if they are stupid about it and you know the ones I’m talking about, that’s another story)</p>
<p>Our local in-state flagship U is lower than the private school that several of the kids we know attend. If one goes to CC & then transfers to the U while commuting from home, the costs are fairly reasonable. Even for folks who opt to live away from home while attending in-state flagship U, the loans are fairly manageable, particularly if the students work while attending their U. I know quite a few folks who have done this rather than take on crushing loans.</p>
<p>At CC, you can also get certification for a job that can help pay higher wages so you can get a better job & further minimize debt. There are many jobs available to kids with a good CC education. Some of them work while earning their BA/BS.</p>
<p>*That depends on your definition of crushing. For the parents in OP’s story, 26K was crushing debt, and you pick up that kind of debt quite easily. *</p>
<p>If the parents have THAT much debt, then that means that the student has about $27k in debt from Staffords. That kind of combined debt is AVOIDABLE</p>
<p>“no one ever said ANY student should be able to attend ANY university that might accept them. That’s a ridiculous premise.”</p>
<p>I fully agree with this statement, and have never said otherwise. There are some very irresponsible spending going on and I’m not writing to defend those students/families. </p>
<p>“But please stop with the hyperbole that “college is not affordable for most people”.”</p>
<p>It isn’t. lol. Most people need loans because they cannot afford college. Then you have multiple people on this thread bashing these students and their families for taking out loans because “they can’t afford to pay it back”. I’m trying to be the voice of reason. People & their families who have defaulted on their student loans are not necessarily irresponsble nor stupid IMO. They may be doing everything they can to get by and were just unlucky and/or screwed by the system. Try having a little compassion.</p>
<p>I don’t think people are bashing the Stafford loan situation. People are bashing the idea of co-signing for MORE loans and then no one can pay them back.</p>
<p>If a parent signs (rather than co-signs) for his or her child’s student loan and dies before the loan is fully repaid, is the student responsible for paying it off?</p>