<p>I have heard of instances where students from Alabama Southern (example) have been accepted into Columbia Law School and other instances where students from less reputable undergrad schools get into outstanding grad. schools. On a less dramatic level, if I were to go to UW-Madison for undergrad (my safety) and study business, is it conceivable that I could get a good paying job for a few years and then go to an Ivy or other highly prestigious business school? Is it a disadvantage, in other words, if I can go to Penn or Georgetown or other well-known undergrad schools, would that help my job prospects/grad. school? Complex question but I think you all get the point.</p>
<p>grad school admissions totally depend on how well you do in undergrad. i have a few friends who went to "3rd tier" schools who are at ivy grad schools (i.e. penn, columbia). do well in undergrad and you'll be fine</p>
<p>^this is not the case for business school though, where work experience is the most important factor in admissions</p>
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<blockquote> <p>grad school admissions totally depend on how well you do in undergrad.<<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>Well, yes and no. You can certainly get into an Ivy grad or professional school from a 3rd tier undergrad, but those same Ivy grad programs will take a much deeper cut into the graduating classes from themselves and other elite colleges. These numbers ilustrate the point:</p>
<p>As you can see, there are a bunch of 2nd and 3rd tier colleges that managed to get one or two kids into Harvard Law School, but the ones that got admissions in the double and triple digits are all elite private and top-of-the-line state schools. So I'd say that Ivy grad admission from a 3rd tier school is possible, but you better be among the top one or two students in your entire college.</p>
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On a less dramatic level, if I were to go to UW-Madison for undergrad (my safety) and study business, is it conceivable that I could get a good paying job for a few years and then go to an Ivy or other highly prestigious business school?
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<p>I'll give you an example. Consider the LFM program at MIT Sloan, which is MIT's prestigious dual MBA+MS program. It's the program that the latest winner of Donald Trump's Apprentice, Randal Pinkett, graduated from. I know the current LFM class has people who did undergrad at such places as New Mexico State, Kettering, University of Oregon, SUNY, University of Washington, University of Delaware, and the Illinois Institute of Technology. Heck, even Randal Pinkett came from Rutgers, from which he won a Rhodes Scholarship, then worked for Lucent for 2 years, then went to LFM, then stuck around MIT to complete a PhD from the Media Lab.</p>
<p>Similarly, at Harvard Business School (HBS), I've known people who did undergrad at BU, UMass, UConn, University of Maine, and CUNY. </p>
<p>Now, don't get me wrong, the bulk of people came from the 'usual suspects ' - HYPSM. For example, in LFM, the most commonly represented undergrad program is, unsurprisingly, MIT. </p>
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Is it a disadvantage, in other words, if I can go to Penn or Georgetown or other well-known undergrad schools, would that help my job prospects/grad. school? Complex question but I think you all get the point.
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<p>The point is that going to a better undergrad program helps, but is not decisive. Not by a long shot. It's not like you can just say that you did undergrad from Harvard, so now you automatically have the right to get into HBS. Ditto for MIT and Sloan. If you graduate last in your class at Harvard or MIT, you're not going to get into a top graduate school. And at every school, somebody has to graduate last. </p>
<p>As kcirch said, B-school admission hinges on work experience. True, a better undergrad program can present you with better job opportunities. But you still have to be the one to take advantage of those opportunities.</p>
<p>coureur, thanks for that link it was very interesting.</p>
<p>Coureur is on the money. A great percentage of graduates from the Ivies/ top schools get into top grad schools, whereas from other places you need to be near the top. A friend at Columbia (MBA) with me went to Wichita State for example, but he had a 4.0 there and solid work experience afterwards.</p>
<p>do they take high school grades into consideration at all, for graduate school?</p>
<p>It may not be necessary if an applicant is applying from an Ivy school, but what if there is that applicant to HBS, etc. that just made a tremendous turnaround once they got into college.</p>
<p>BTW i'm not talking about myself if you're wondering, you can find me at brown</p>
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<p>also don't forget that it's partially about the person. if you are someone who is good enough to get into penn or georgetown but decide to go to wisconsin instead, you're still the successful and talented you, and in almost all cases, you'll be suited to go wherever penn or georgetown graduates go.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>do they take high school grades into consideration at all, for graduate school?<<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>No. For grad and professional school admission you will be judged on your college performance only. It won't matter how good or bad your grades were in high school. It's the same as how your elementary or middle school grades don't count for college admissions. They don't even ask.</p>
<p>coureur do you have a similar link of how many (what schools) students come from for Harvard MBA and Columbia MBA? Thanks</p>
<p>Nope. Unfortunately Harvard Law School is one of the few places I've run across that puts out this kind of very useful information.</p>
<p>I actually go to Columbia MBA and saw a list once, unfortunately I never kept it. The top by a significant margin were the Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Williams, Amherst, etc.</p>
<p>Do you guys know if this also holds true for every Grad school? I intend to go into medicine. Now I got accepted into NYU but not in College of arts and science so I dont have the early decision legal binding. So I was rethinking and said why not go to one of teh SUNY, Binghamton or Geneseo where i might get a higher merit schlorship and a cheaper tutuiton. From there after i take MCATS I plan to transer to a second tier-ish place like NYU,BC (along those lines). And then after working for a** off try my best to apply to Cornell's medical school in Doho Qatar. Think this might be realistic? Just curious, I know it needs mor thorough thinking, but thats my very broad plan for the next 4 years</p>
<p>Here's what I gather from this thread:
If you're at or near the top of your class, there is no reason to believe that the name of your school would be a disadvantage in grad school admissions. However, with a brand name undergrad degree, you're allowed more leeway in terms of rank (i.e. you can still be accepted if you're in the middle of the pack). I think that's logical though, considering there's a greater percentage of top-notch students at the elite schools anyway.</p>
<p>So, if you're a good student, remain a good student and get significant internship/job experience, it doesn't matter where you go for undergrad.</p>
<p>You should check out the UW-Madison business school placement records. Especially if you're one of the top students, you will have the pick of many great jobs.</p>
<p>I would point out that if we're talking about business school, even mediocre performance at a no-name undergrad school may not matter much, if you can pick it up and have a stellar career.</p>
<p>For example, I know a guy who went to a no-name school and was so lazy and unmotivated there that he was basically forced out after a few years. Not knowing what else to do, he ended up joining the military, eventually entering the Special Forces, participating in numerous combat missions, including in Afghanistan. When he got discharged, he finished up his bachelor's degree. But his overall GPA was still pretty poor considering his low grades in his early college days. Also, he didn't get a very good GMAT score. Nevertheless, he was still admitted to a number of the top MBA programs in the country, including HBS and MITSloan. </p>
<p>Obviously, these schools weren't admitting him for his academic performance. They were admitting him for his proven military leadership experience. Makes complete sense too. Who would you rather have managing your business - some guy who's not strong academically but has proven that he knows how to lead people and get things done in life + death situations, or an academically brilliant guy who has no proven leadership qualities?</p>
<p>I think your chances of getting into a top Law school would be improved if you attended Georgetown or Penn over Wisconsin...but the improvement would not be "dramatic". A top student from Wisconsin who does very well on the LSAT has a good shot at getting into a top 10 Law School.</p>
<p>"The point is that going to a better undergrad program helps, but is not decisive. Not by a long shot. It's not like you can just say that you did undergrad from Harvard, so now you automatically have the right to get into HBS. Ditto for MIT and Sloan. If you graduate last in your class at Harvard or MIT, you're not going to get into a top graduate school. And at every school, somebody has to graduate last."</p>
<p>Sakky, what happens if you were the last ranked in your class but compared to other students in other schools you actually did better even though you were the last in your class. Basically what I'm saying is, say there's a top student from like a CUNY would they take that CUNY student over a Harvard student who was the last graduate in his class even though the Harvard student actually had the better grades? Hopefully my question makes some sense.</p>
<p>I just wanted to add to this thread that this is precisely what I want to do. I'm hoping I can get into Northeastern U and through their co-op program actually gain work experience in business. Have myself 2-3 years of work experience and then go to a top business school like Wharton School of Business. I know I have to still be a good student but after a college admissions officer told me that generally it doesn't matter where you go to when you apply to undergrad school because it's the grad school that will really give you a name and to the grad school a gpa is a gpa no matter where you went. Of course certain schools have better programs and I'm sure that's take into consideration but generally I think what he said is true, gpa is a gpa anywhere you go.</p>