<p>I’m a first time poster and hoping that someone who “really knows” can shed some light on the subject of weight expectations for mt students. My d and I are both impressed by the program and facilities at CCM, but have heard some negative comments about the pressures that the females face concerning their weight. I’m all for proper nutrition and daily exercise in the interest of staying fit, and would hope that a quality program would encourage a healthy lifestyle by their students. But if there is any sort of “weigh in” and a resulting pressure to reach and then maintain a certain weight, I’m not sure I could support that policy. My daughter has been cautioned not to come to any judgements before hearing from students who are actually IN the program and would really know. So, would any students care to respond to our question about how weight issues are handled at CCM? Thanks!</p>
<p>Ok, it's me again...the original poster. It looks like I may not get any response to my question about how CCM handles weight issues. Does this sound like a proper question to ask in an interview situation, or would it send up a red flag that my d might not be a good candidate for the program if we question their methods? (By the way, my d is tall, somewhat curvey, not overweight, but not stick-thin either.)</p>
<p>TTx3, this is a direct quote from the flyer Auditioning for Musical Theatre at CCM for Amission in Fall 2007: "DO pay attention to your personal appearance. Look your best. ... It may be hard, but take a long objective look at yourself in a mirror and assess what you see. If you need to lose weight or gain muscle, begin as soon as possible - but do it safely, please. Visit the dentist, invest in a new hairstyle, pamper your complexion, learn the fundamentals of make-up, get in shape, start working out, jogging or exercising your mind. Take a dance class, a yoga class, or just get some sleep. Eat well and pass on the double whoppers with cheese. Present yourself as a prospective student whom the faculty will enjoy teaching and who will be highly employable after graduation." My D (who is 5'6", wears a size 3-5, is cute and extremely outgoing) was totally turned off by this and actually found it rather insulting. Hope this helps answer your question.</p>
<p>We know seevral studens at CCM and have seen pictures of the curent freshman class and most o fthe entering class for next ear. The girls are VERY similar in look, all of them our slim, in my opinion close to too thin. My D is a friend of a current frehsman who lost a lot of weight the year she auditioned and the through the first part of her freshman year. As the parent of a D who s currently in a ballet program (not college) I think the CCM girls are very thin but I cannot say if there is "pressure" or if they have arrived at it in an unhealthy way.</p>
<p>My D (and I) agree with Alismom and her D. It not only is insulting but presents a real health risk to young ladies. Numerous studies have shown that regardless of how it is "couched", comments about wieght and body shape create a real risk of eating disorders among girls in this age bracket. Add to it the pressures of a highly competitive MT program where a particular "image" is pushed and it is a recipe for disaster. CCM is not alone in this regard. At NYU Tisch, we were told outright that to be in the Senior showcase, not only must a student have the talent but also must have a certain "look" and if they thought a student should cut her hair, dye it or lose 10 or 20 pounds, the student would be so instructed.</p>
<p>We have seen first hand what this can do to girls in this age bracket. 2 of my daughter's female friends who are MT students, one of whom just withdrew from Tisch, developed anorexia. One is now in an intensive therapeutic program and the other has now swung the other way radically and has gone from stick thin to dangerously obese.</p>
<p>This should be a very real issue for parents of daughters.</p>
<p>I had a feeling this would be a tough subject to bring up. Even though I posed the question in one particular program's forum, the problem of weight issues and healthy body image should be addressed in regard to every performing arts program, with the ultimate goal being the graduation of healthy young men and women prepared for the competitive nature of the business. The harsh reality is that certain body types will always be required for different roles, and I can see where casting a show at these highly regarded programs would mimic what would be done at the professional level. So what's the answer? I think more education in health and nutrition would help, as would required counseling throughout the student's entire educational process. As or the CCM admissions information that was quoted above, I don't really have a problem with what is suggested. To me, it's saying that to be competitive in the performance world, you should learn to take care of yourself, and I think they are looking for kids who are willing to take the initiative to do that at this stage of their education. Much of their advice is health related, as in skipping the double whoppers and choosing more healthy foods to eat, or seeing a dentist or dermatologist to take care of your teeth and skin, or getting plenty of exercise. These are all things I already talk to my d about and hope that she'll heed my advice. There's advice to get more sleep if you need to, so what's to argue with there? Get a haircut or flattering hairdo? Well, who of us wouldn't want our kids going into an audition or interview putting their best foot forward? Oftentimes, there are more ways than one to interpret the written word, or even a spoken word. I think the advice given is right on the money, if not for entrance into a college program, then at least for later on down the road when they're out of school and looking for an agent or auditioning for a show. As long as there is support for those who struggle with accepting what body type they are meant to be, these programs could be turning out amazing talent of ALL types. That would make for a successful program in my eyes!</p>
<p>Michael,
There are different showcases at Tisch. Perhaps you are referring to industry nights that are Tisch wide. I have never heard what you did but obviously someone told you that. I just asked my daughter about this (she attends Tisch) and she said she has never heard anything like that and her school doesn't come across that way. She said in the industry nights, students are advised to play to their "type" and sell their strengths. However, CAP21 has a senior showcase that is separate from Tisch Industry Nights and all CAP21 seniors who have been in CAP the entire 4 years have been able to participate. Having seen many CAP students perform, I can tell you that there are many body types and I have not seen all thin girls. </p>
<p>At CCM, I have no first hand experience and so anything I say is general and you can take it as you like. I have seen video of freshman showcases there and one thing that struck me off the bat, after having heard a lot about CCM wanting thin girls, etc., was that a few girls were not poker thin. I was surprised in fact. I am not sure if those girls are still in the class or not as they do have a cut system. My IMPRESSION (only an impression) at CCM is that there is a level of intensity, stress, and a competitive aura (which makes logical sense given the cut program and whatever else) that can CONTRIBUTE to predispositions for those who might have eating issues or other addiction issues. I think there is something to the environment that makes it harder for some to get through unscathed. I do believe there is an image or standard they wish to present in their final showcase. Naturally, advice regarding how to eat healthy and how to present oneself is important. A pressure environment, cuts, or competitive environment, however, can affect young adults to be even more conscious about image. I think when looking into any program, it is important to get a vibe as to whether it is a nurturing and supportive environment or a competitive environment. I also think one has to decide if they are willing to be in a cut program as well, which may affect the program "climate."</p>
<p>CCM, as most of us know, has a different way of doing things than most colleges. Some people agree with this and some don't. They teach their students to be competitive with each other because that's what happens in the real world, while other schools go for the more nurturing environment. </p>
<p>As for the stick-thin thing, it does seem to me that most of the girls in the past few years have been all of the same thin body type, which is understandable but unfortunate. Obviously a larger woman (or man for that matter) isn't going to go out and find a lot of jobs right after college, since there are very very few roles for large women of that age range, and I believe CCM is aware of this and would rather teach a student who is more likely to be successful after they graduate. </p>
<p>But let's not forget, two of the most successful CCM graduates are women who are larger. Sharon Wheatley (author of the AMAZING book "Till the Fat Girl Sings") and Lisa Howard (Spelling Bee) both graduated from CCM and both have great careers in theatre. I believe I read somewhere that Lisa holds the record for most agents interested after the CCM senior showcase.</p>
<p>Susan,
I am sincerely glad that your daughter has not experienced what I described in my post. The comment I raised was made by an admissions officer at a small group MT info session at Tisch. An inquiry was made about the "Senior Showcase" for MT students and during the discussion a parent asked how students are selected for the Senior Showcase. The response from the admissions officer was litterally "It is not enough to have the talent. You must also have the right look. If we think you should cut your hair or dye it, we will tell you that. If we think you need to loose 10 or 20 pounds, we will tell you that too." Needless to say, we were flabergasted that an "educator" would make such a comment, particularly to a group of about 25 people, most of whom were females. The clear message was that Tisch was looking for a particular body type and that pressure existed within the program to achieve it. Hopefully, the admissions officer was simply offbase. However, I think the underlying lesson is that as parents and students visit schools, it is important to ask a load of questions and be sensitized to issues such as this.</p>
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An inquiry was made about the "Senior Showcase" for MT students and during the discussion a parent asked how students are selected for the Senior Showcase.
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<p>Since others may be reading, I want to again clarify that there are different showcases at Tisch. There are Industry Nights that are Tisch wide, including students from all studios. One must audition to get into those. However, you mention a "senior showcase for MT Students" and I want to be clear that CAP21, which IS the MT Studio has a senior showcase just for CAP21 seniors and all seniors who have been with the program for 3 1/2 years have gotten to participate in the past. They are not selected. They have a semester long workshop with casting agents and other professionals culminating in a showcase. So, the comments you were told are not related to the CAP21 showcase as students are not selected for it. As far as Tisch Industry Nights, my D has not heard what you were told but you were obviously told that. She has understood that in the Industry Nights (again, NOT the CAP21 showcase), that they want you to play to your type. Perhaps based on the comments you were told, they are coached how to present themselves to market themselves to their type. Based on the comments you were told, I would not draw a conclusion that Tisch is looking for a certain body type. I also would not assume that there is pressure in the program to look a certain way. Rather, I would draw a conclusion that as part of preparation for a showcase, they are coached in how to appear their best to market themselves well. </p>
<p>As far as the CAP21 studio itself, it is not competitive within the program, has no cuts, and my D has not felt pressure from the studio regarding looks or weight. However, she works out regularly (is at the gym as I type) because in this field, one has to be conscious about their appearance. Nobody at school has told her to be but she wants to be in shape. I also have seen many CAP students in performances and they are not all perfect body types. I understand your concerns in hearing the comments you were told. I can only speak to the experiences my D is having in the program and the facts she has described as far as showcases. Again, all CAP students who take part in the senior semester with casting agents are in the showcase and up until now, have not had to audition or be selected to be in it. This is separate from Tisch Industry Nights.</p>
<p>I am responding to the topic regarding Tisch brought up in previous posts but this is a CCM thread, I realize.</p>
<p>Thank you for clarifying Susan. It is clear that I was misinformed.</p>
<p>Michael, no problem. You heard what you heard and had every right to wonder and question what goes on. These sorts of questions should be asked. I think you just didn't have the entire context or total sum of what goes on. There are different showcases for one thing, as I explained. The person you talked with was not from CAP21, which has its own showcase for all seniors who have been in the studio all 3 1/2 years. I don't believe Tisch admissions seeks a certain body type. I also know my D has not felt any pressure in the program with regard to weight or looks. She purposely chose NOT to apply to certain programs with cuts and a certain climate because she cared about that issue, as I hear you do as well. </p>
<p>I'd have to understand the context of whatever that person had said but perhaps it had to do with the coaching they receive for marketing themselves to agents and so forth in the final semester that revolves around coaching with casting agents and industry professionals. I can't truly know. But the conclusions you drew were not truly the case or experience that I know my D has had so far at CAP21. She feels nurtured and has never had anything said so far by faculty about looks or weight. The field itself has pressures where appearances count, of course. And she certainly knows many kids who have eating issues at her program AND at other programs. She hasn't felt any pressures from the CAP program itself, however.</p>
<p>Hello, all. This seems to be a pretty heated discussion, and I just wanted to say a few things.</p>
<p>I will be an incoming freshmen at CCM. I am a male, so maybe my opinion/remarks might not be as respected, and that's understandable. I have no intention of being rude or offensive in any way. Honestly. I am just giving you information as I have understood, since I have researched the program thoroughly.</p>
<p>I agree Jowy, CCM does do things differently. HOWEVER, they DO NOT by ALL means promote unhealthy ways of losing weight. While the majority of girls are thin, there are a some in the program who are not what you would stereotypically call "skinny." In ANY competitive Musical Theatre program, they will tell you to look your best. It's a tough field...it's a business. They stress the fact of keeping in shape, and keeping your body HEALTHY and at a HEALTHY weight because, bottom line is, that is what the business calls for. Blame the business--not the school. It is up to the school, and the students at the school, to live up to the expectations of "the business" if they wish to succede, which is what the students aim for.</p>
<p>There are MANY rumors out there about CCM. I even believed a few...until I visited the school and talked to teachers and students and such. To answer triplethreatx3's question, I do not think it would be unnecessary to ask them personally their stance on weight and acceptance by weight. They will give you an honest answer without hesitation and will not find it insulting, and it will not hurt your daughters chance of acceptance.</p>
<p>I know you may be thinking that I am biased, or that I do not understand, and that's fine. But hear me out. I've researched a lot of schools within the past couple of years. CCM is one of the top program, along with U Mich, BoCo, FSU, Carnegie-Melon, etc...it is the same with every program. Look your best, do your best, and be yourself. </p>
<p>I will repeat again, I really do not want to offend. I hope I haven't. I'm just giving a different, and what I feel, educated opinion on the discussion.</p>
<p>Please, any parents or students with ANY questions, don't hesitate to call and ask the school. They will give you an honest answer.
Or--talk to females in the program. The facebook community is very large. Most of the MT students at CCM are on facebook. Feel free to message them. They have been very helpful for me, and are always willing to help anyone interested.</p>
<p>Maybe this answered some questions.</p>
<p>Thanks so much, brianMT! Your message is very much appreciated. You really drive home the message that while it's helpful to hear what others have to say about the different programs, a prospective should always do their own research and get their own "feel" for the schools. I will encourage my daughter to use facebook, as you suggested, to connect with some current students. Perhaps she'll connect with you! Best of luck this year!</p>
<p>Brian, that is a very good post. </p>
<p>It also is true that the business itself involves pressures about looks. </p>
<p>In any case, I agree that the best thing for prospective students to do is to talk to CURRENT students in the programs to which they hope to apply. It is best to garner several viewpoints from several students and not just one or two. Then judge for yourself. Also ask questions of those who run the programs. It sounds like YOU have done YOUR homework in such a way. Good job.</p>
<p>triplethreatx3--If your daughter does have any questions, please tell her to find me and message me on facebook. I'm part of the Cincinnati '11 network, so I shouldn't be too hard to find. </p>
<p>I'd be more than happy to answer any questions she might have, and refer her to other females in the program who may be able to answer her questions more clearly.</p>
<p>Glad I could help.</p>
<p>OH--And Jowy, Lisa did hold the record at one point, but I think Ashley Brown beat her in '04, and I just heard from one of the teachers that a girl in '06 beat Ashley's record. Just a fun fact, I guess. But I must say, Lisa is by far one of the most talented and successful of the graduates. She deserves everything she has accomplished.</p>