Welcome ideas on HS junior who needs some focus in his search

College Search & Selection
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Current junior

  • 3.83UW - 5 or so AP, and some honors classes, Has 3 Bs in his career and a few A-. Has taken most of the AP/Honors avail maybe 2-3 per year, but not all.
  • 790V / 790M on first attempt. No tutoring, he did a few practice tests (was very proud of him for sitting down and doing them). Not able to take PSAT this year at his school, but my reading says he will be National Merit Finalist based on alternate entry with his SAT score.
  • Only EC is swimming. will be 4 years HS varsity letter and league champion in various events. Sectional level club swimmer (not national) Wants to swim in college Intercollegiate varsity (Div 3 or lower Div 1 level talent) or at good club program. Spends up to 15 hours a week in swim practice , plus resting a lot from swimming many thousands of yards a week.
  • Literally no other ECs, not interested.
  • Greatly enjoys his down time and “chilling”, hates to be busy all the time.
  • Doesnt know what he wants to study. Maybe Mech Engineering, maybe Business Finance, maybe Marine Biology (is that even a major?)
    He is very much a generalist. (I’d like to say Renaissance Man) Good at math, good verbally, good social skills, good swimmer. But he’s not a off the charts standout in any realm.
  • No hooks at all.
  • We will be full pay, aside from any merit he might get.

We sat him down as a freshman and told him. You have a lot of potential. If you want to go to Stanford or the like, you will have to take every hard class there is, get an A in almost all of them. Do a lot of ECs. Make sure you cultivate relationships with teachers.
All that and you still probably wont get in,but you will have a chance.

He said, sounds like a lot of grief. So he took about 75% of the avail toughest classes. He got the occasional B or A-. And he swam a lot, but that’s it. He’s been extremely relaxed thru high school. Between the low demands on his time for school and the mellowing effect of 15 hours a week of vigorous exercise, he’s been pretty easy going and happy.
.
How do we find him a school? Should he apply top 20s? Is that just asking for a bunch of rejections? Just use NMF status to school for nearly free (I told him he could have $150K for a down payment on a house (half the 300K a private school would cost us) if he uses his high SATs to go to a full ride school.

To me, engineering or not is a big first question.

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At first I thought of Univ. Delaware, Univ. of Miami, Auburn, TAMU, Uni. Alabama, Univ South Carolina, Boston U. But I don’t know about swimming opportunities. My thought is look at merit, colleges offering marine biology and mech engineering, and swimming. Has he reached out to colleges where his times are a good match?

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Is he recruitable for swimming? Talk to his coach ASAP and ask what levels of schools he would be competitive for. The coach should be able to walk you through contacting college coaches.

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It looks like the OP says he’s d3 or lower d1. Because he’s so undecided, I would point you in the direction of the UCC colleges (d3, but research universities. UCC is the athletic league). Schools like Emory, University of Rochester, U Chicago). For the same size reasons, Tufts. Larger schools will allow more choice as to what he can study.

It sounds like he hasn’t been in touch with coaches yet? If that’s the case, you and he need to get on that asap. You said he has no hooks, but if he’s a recruited athlete that’s the biggest hook there is!

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Has he been in contact with any coaches? Will he want to put in the work/hours required on a college team, especially if he chooses a stem major? Does he want 2 a days, dryland, lifting, travel, study hours…is he burned out and coasting or still pushing his training to improve?

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Div 3 swimming but research univ sounds promising, I will look at UCC

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Oops!! Posted before coffee :-). The league is UAA.

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Do you have a budget? Are you comfortable paying $80,000 per year for at least four years, and would it be okay if this went five years?

What state are you in?

To me this does not sound like “top 20” is a good fit. I also enjoyed down time and “chilling”, and a lack of time to do this plus a lack of time and energy for other activities was perhaps the big reason why I found (many years ago) that a “top 20” university was not a good fit for me for undergrad. For graduate school I was ready and a “top 20” was a good fit. It sounds at least possible that your son might be similar. At least this is something to think about.

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Yeah, I agree with this. I was also more interested in down time and chilling when I went to college, so I chose a great LAC that was not top 50. Much more relaxed, fun, social environment - and I still got a great education, went to a top grad school (like DadTwoGirls, I was more ready for the pressure cooker by then), am working at a large recognizable tech company.

There are a great many good schools out there, and the vast majority of them are not in the top 20. I’d focus on colleges that have the vibe that he really wants. It doesn’t sound like he’s interested in the top 20s.

Other than that line, there’s not a lot in here about what he’s looking for in a school. Urban, suburban, or rural? Close to home or far away? Small and close-knit or large with lots of opportunities and activities? What kinds of students does he want to go to college with?

And oof, he probably doesn’t realize this now, but I would totally take the down payment over the full pay college. Especially if he already wants a laid-back vibe.

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10

Look into Denison. Excellent D3 swimming, topnotch academics without being a pressure cooker. Global management major, but no engineering.

11

Check out Grinnell. Fantastic pool/athletic facility and great coach. Excellent academics, too.

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He sounds like a great kid who is self-aware about what he wants in terms of activities and work-life balance. He’s clearly not somebody who would be happy trying to juggle a heavy “grind” academic program (especially in engineering) with a demanding varsity sport. He’s a smart kid who needs a school with strong academics and a good reputation, but not someplace hyper-competitive. Going for something relatively affordable could also reduce pressure in terms of pacing and taking a little extra time to graduate, between the need to moderate workload and the possibility that he may need time to explore rather than hitting the ground running in his major from day one.

What’s the nature of his interest in marine bio? Is it that he likes all things aquatic (for example, would he be interested in something like the Ocean Engineering major at Stevens, or even one of the maritime academy schools (Maine Maritime and SUNY Maritime both have men’s DivIII swimming)…? Or is it more purely a love of bio and especially the marine angle within bio, aquatic plant/animal species, etc? One thing to consider with this major is that students often take time away from campus - one marine bio major I know did a semester in Australia, and others do programs like https://www.seamester.com/ , but these things can be hard to reconcile with a sport like swimming where athletes train all year. Just something to think about - it might make being at a school with direct access to a marine research setting more important. A lot of the best schools for this are larger universities that tend to be Div I.

St. Mary’s of Maryland, which has men’s DIII swimming, has a gorgeous setting and a more laid-back vibe in a coastal location. They’re launching a new marine science major which sounds very cool. The Marine Science Program - Marine Science They also have an Applied Physics track in their physics department, which funnels students in to tech-related careers and engineering grad programs. There’s a Business Administration minor in the econ department in addition to the econ major.

In the vein of Applied Physics, Case Western Reserve (also Div III) has an Engineering Physics major. Doing that with a MechE concentration could be a bit more flexible than a full-blown MechE major, but still offer a strong foundation and ABET accreditation. Plus, Case has an open door policy as far as changing majors, and a great variety of offerings including six different undergrad majors in the business school.

WPI could be worth a look too - good offerings in both STEM and business, and not as grind-y as other DIVIII peer schools like RPI. Maybe Clarkson too? And the LAC’s that have engineering: Lafayette, Union, Trinity, Bucknell, Lehigh…? Bucknell has a five-year dual engineering/management degree that might spread out the heavy engineering classes a little (but of course he’d still only have 4 years of athletic eligibility). Lehigh has a four-year Integrated Business & Engineering program with the option of a 5th year if a full ABET engineering degree is desired.

SUNY Buffalo is one of the few larger public universities that is DIII for sports. They have very strong engineering (including a MechE/MBA track as well as Industrial Engineering which can be a good way to blend engineering and business) as well as a variety of other majors including some interesting options within geosciences and geography that can be tilted toward a marine specialty.

UC Santa Cruz has a full-blown marine bio BS and a variety of engineering majors, a “chill” vibe and DIII swimming. Downside is the OOS cost, if you don’t happen to be in CA.

Pitzer (which shares a DIII team with Pomona) and Claremont McKenna (joint team with Harvey Mudd) both offer interesting programs including a Science & Management major.

For a top-notch business-focused program, Babson could be a terrific choice.

Just tossing ideas out there - what resonates for you?

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These are some very interesting ideas. I will have him take a look at these schools.

For note, we are from Calif. One disappointing element is that all of the UC schools have gone test BLIND, so you cannot submit. So that 1580 SAT gets him nothing, and his 3.83 UW is going to have lots of competition. His cousin was head of her class, and still was rejected by the top UCs, and she had a lot broader EC background than he did. So mostly counting out UCs, although UCSC is notably less competitive than most.

He and I agreed that the time demands of an engineering program at the same time as varsity sport might be challenging for someone who hates to be busy all the time.

Likely if he studies engineering, he will go to a large Div 1 type campus and participate in club swimming. For engineering Schools like UF and Texas A&M that have generous National Merit programs would be attractive. Looks like Ohio State has a nice program for out of state students as well. My perception is that a BSME from one of those schools would be quite well received by the job market - seems like there is less prestige mongering in engineering realm.

If he goes LAC, then he’ll swim varsity. The Claremont Consortium is an attractive idea. He has indicated that he’d rather not be in a tiny campus in the middle of nowhere.

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I’d suggest he look at Tufts. Not in the middle of nowhere, decent D3 team, engineering as an option.

Union will likely give him merit but checks a lot of those boxes as well.

Several of the other LACS with engineering are D1.

I think one thing to consider is whether he’s excited about swimming in college. It sounds like being a recruited athlete is a way for him to potentially move to the top of the pile at very selective schools, but that means he has to swim. Is that a goal? I think we’re all assuming it is, but that means he’ll be working this process differently.

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He doesnt see swimming as a way to get into better school. For top academic and swimming D3 places like Amherst, JHU, Emory, U Chicago, etc where he would use the admissions boost, he isnt fast enough to get the thumb on the scale. He could make the team, and wouldnt be overwhelmed, but dont think the coach will use his “let this kid in” card on him

He loves swimming, and his swim friends. That’s why he wants to do swim in college.

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How about Cal Poly, has Marine Science, Mech E, D1 and Club Swimming.

https://www.calpoly.edu/major/marine-sciences

https://gopoly.com/news/2021/4/7/swimming-and-diving-33-mustangs-earn-mpsf-swimming-diving-all-academic-honors.aspx

Club Swimming list College Club Swimming

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Sorry wrong thread

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Trinity University in San Antonio has a strong swim program and it’s not a tiny campus in the middle of nowhere. Trinity has engineering and finance, although not marine biology. The school gives good merit. Bowdoin has a marine sciences center that might be of interest, although they don’t provide merit support.

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Cal Poly definitely on the list

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I hope that you submitted the alternate entry form for National Merit based upon SAT (for those who were unable to sit for PSAT). If you did, I think that you are correct, that he would get National Merit. If he does, he can then put this on his California college apps, as an honor, not as a test score. Admissions committees cannot ignore that a kid made National Merit.

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