Well well well...the Vals and Sals of last year.

<p>I'm not sure how to explain it, Angst. My older daughter has stated time and again that she was never in competition with others. She did not compare grades with others, nor discuss rank or care about rank. She just had high standards and goals for herself. True, she achieved being ranked first but that was not the goal. </p>

<p>For the other one, you asked about being in competition for roles in shows....When she auditions for a show or for college, she strives to do her personal best. She is a confident kid with high self esteem and believes in herself. She understands that casting and even admission into a BFA program is not simply a talent "contest" if you will. The role does not always go to the most talented. Yes, you MUST have talent to be considered but when that is fairly equal, it can come down to type and stuff you cannot control. For the BFA programs, I think she believes in her own talent, as do I, but she knows it is unpredictable and she know herself and has a shot at it and self assesses her candidacy based on who she knows who has gotten in in the past and what they and she has accomplished and so forth. But she also knows that it is bey ond her control and it very well may not turn out as she hoped. Maybe someone who she may perceive as less talented gets cast but overall, it usually comes down to that several people are talented and they can only take one for a part or for a slot in a college program and you have to deal with it. You can't give up and say, NOT FAIR, I'm more talented than SHE is. Or....Oh NO, I stink, I'm never gonna make it. You just have to go on and keep reaching for your goals. This is all part of being in such a field. While you may be "competing" for roles or slots in a program, you have to recognize that many have talents and sometimes it goes your way, and sometimes not. There is no room for bitterness. There is room for disappointment but even with that, you gotta move on real quick and not belabor it. The few times when it has not gone my daughter's way in casting or some other big thing, she has not gotten worked up over it or cried and her disappointment was brief. Part of being self confident lets you do this. She did tell me that if she is rejected at her first choice school, she would like to be "allowed" to be disappointed for a day but is sure she will move on but wants a chance to feel disappointed should that happen. That is understandable. We also talk about if she does not get into a particular highly competitive program, not to take it as a commentary on her talent. She knows the odds and that many talented kids are turned away (like at Ivies!, same idea with first child's college process who did not take it personally to be rejected at Yale, nor took it to be unfair AT ALL). We talk about believing in yourself and knowing that you are talented and that something is going to work out and to just move onto the next audition. </p>

<p>Frankly, after years of auditioning where she was ALWAYS cast, in some ways, I was grateful the first time she was not cast in something as that is the reality of this field and you gotta experience that if you are gonna keep at it. The top actresses in this country met with many rejections along the way but believed in themselves and kept going. In fact, I recall that first rejection...it was for Sound of Music and 200 kids auditioned for the kid roles. She was a finalist. She was 13 and up for Louisa. The 16 year olds up for Liesl were about the same height as her (short for their ages). In fact, at the final callback, they kept putting HER into the Liesel spot which she never dreamt of being considered for as she was only 13 but if she were Louisa, she did not look smaller than the other potential Liesls and the height line up in Sound of Music is legnedary. A producer of this show happened to come in as a patient of my husband's some time later and confided in him that out of the 200 kids who auditioned for the role, the casting folks felt our D was the most talented but they could not use her which frustrated them, when put with the other kids they had. So, this was a very good lesson for my D to see. I am happy to say that her disappointment lasted all of ten minutes and was not hardcore at all. She has auditioned at the Broadway level and this also has allowed her to see that there are many equally talented kids in the country and that is exactly the case now with auditioning for elite BFA programs. You can't question your own talent. You have to reach for your personal goals. It is not a competition with others. You are competing with YOURSELF. My older D feels this way and I have heard her express this actually. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

<p>If it is impossible for unfairness to exist because there is a system is in place, wouldn't we still have segregation and the like?</p>

<p>I haven't seen YMMV around lately, but "your mileage may vary" seems to be applicable on this thread. For every school that has a "fair" system there is another that has an "unfair" system, or "where you stand depends upon where you sit." </p>

<p>The pendulum has swung both ways at our school. Last year was one extreme..a val that did not take all of the most rigorous courses, her mother worked at the school as a coach and was able to say she was on the volleyball team as an assistant to pump up her resume, when in reality the child was not even at the games or practices, her father was the head of transportation and secured a scholarship for her that no other child knew about instead of opening it up to all that were eligible, etc....This year we have a val that has taken not only the most rigorous courseload, but has very high board scores in relation to his classmates, he has qualified for some state and national level contests, etc..</p>

<p>In the grand scheme of things, what is most important is not the recognition, but rather the ability to do what you want at the next level. Typically the students ranked 10-20 at our school get into more competitive schools and get more scholarship money. If that is the desired outcome, then the .001 difference in GPA doesn't matter.</p>

<p>Does it hurt when there is gaming? In some cases. Students wishing to apply to the business school at UT need to remain in the top 1-2%. In most cases, what goes around comes around. We have many gamers that fail out of school fairly quickly. I also wish they would take the weight off the AP classes, or teach them at the intended level. It would be great have every single student be prepared to tackle the challenges of college, instead of being deluded by inflated AP grades. </p>

<p>And although val/sal is quite an honor, most people don't remember from one year to the next who it was, along with Prom Queen and Most Likely to Succeed. When you move on to college there are other honors to garner, and I don't think anyone wants to peak in high school. Oddly enough, I saw a former val in the paper today on the community college honor roll. I remember her only because she has a very unusual name. She did not last at her first school.</p>

<p>So---I guess I would rather have my son be on the AP honor list that angst's school circulated rather than some of the other titles. But both would also be cool! ;)</p>

<p>I just love when people say, well that's the way it is, live with it....unfiar is unfair and should be griped about....at my daughters school there was a lot of favoratism: what we did notice was that a the kids that were vals and chosen for everything in previous years, were given all the parts, were favorites, those kids really struggled in high school, they didn't have to work before and suddenly, reality hit. Didn't get all the parts, didn't get A's on their work, didn't just get picked to do things because of reputation, etc. Some kids felt they could just walk onto parts because their world was very small. Suddenly they had to compete and put some effort into it. Its the big fish, really small pond....</p>

<p>Soozievet: be prepared, because, no matter what your daughter's talents are, she will not get picked for EVERYTHING...and you can make excuses (height, other cast members, etc) to make her feel better about finally not getting picked. Maybe that was true, but maybe her disappointment was masked because she could blaim her height. It sounds like your daughter's haven't had much disappointment in life....lucky for them....but when it happens, and it will, it will be rough, as they have had it pretty easy so far...</p>

<p>Ah the line up. I remember that! I think about 200 kids auditioned here also ..tons of kids. D. ended up being Gretl (her first role when she was little). Sounds like your daughter is tall in addition to being incredibly talented. Mine is very petite and I have to say this has helped her get certain parts I am sure.</p>

<p>Oldest daughter does not seem to compete with others. She has very very high goals for herself though. We didnt even realize that she would have been a Sal if she hadnt gotten the 89,9 in AP Physics till after..She was though disappointed when they asked for her pic and all the paperwork for Val and then said (the day before graduation) because of the way the rankings are done it didnt work out.</p>

<p>Anyway..my the bad feelings that came up over the paper are done..am on to other things.</p>

<p>Angst, my D who is into theater is not tall. She is 5'3". The particular older girls considered for Liesl were also 5'3" and they were then considering her for Liesl but normally a 13 year old does not look right with the 17 year old boy. </p>

<p>Citygirlsmom, believe me, my D, as well as I, know she will NOT get picked for everything. She has not either. She has been successful in many ways but has not had every single thing go as hoped, at all. She also has auditioned quite a bit at the highest levels in NYC so she goes into those expecting NOT to be cast. She is realistic. She knows her talents and is confident but she is also very aware of the situation. There are plenty of talented kids out there, equally and more so than herself. Also in this field, when there is more than one talented person for a role, other factors come into play that you cannot control....that is clearly how it works. She had a national tour producer tell her after being a finalist for a role, that it came down to her skin tone compared to the other finalist. These are all things that are a part of it. There are no sour grapes because you have to know this is how it is when you go into such a thing. You do your best and then move onto the next thing. You cannot get every role. She will NOT get into every college program and in fact, we are praying she gets into at least one, not because she or we do not believe in her talent but more because of the situation, too many talented folks for very very few slots. You can't take it personally, but have to plug away. And you are right, in certain situations, politics enters in, such as in community theater or sometimes even school theater. All these things happen. A kid needs to be aware of it. If you are not picked, you don't have to "blame" it on something like you mentioned in your post, but have to be realistic that you cannot be cast or admitted every time. It is not always a commentary about not being "talented enough" but you can't "win" every time. In the anecdote I shared, SHE did not "blame" it on height. She did not blame it on anything. I was saying that weeks later, a casting person revealed this as the reason, which was a useful lesson to know that it is not ALL about talent like a contest, but when there is more than one talented person for a role, other factors enter into it and some of those factors, you have no control over. It is USELESS and misguided to put blame on this kind of thing. Once for a musical cast in NYC, that was going to be one of these pre-Broadway tryouts in another city, it came down to my D and another girl for a big part and the other girl had already done the workshop of the show in another city with these same producers/directors but had gotten too big at this point for the role but in the end, they let her keep it and not for a moment would I deem this unfair. This is what this field involves. You can't get everything. It is not always gonna go your way. You have to just strive for your own goals. It is not you against others. It is you against your own goals. </p>

<p>Anyway, while having many successes, believe me, my kid has had some disappointments too. I also think with college admissions, when going for very selective schools, having been someone who excelled up to that point, kids have to deal with rejection if they are going to enter this odds game. While I don't wish rejection on anyone, one must learn to deal with disappointment. That is why so far, I am grateful that my kids did NOT get bent out of shape when getting a rejection. I have seen some kids on these forums get extremely upset with a rejection and it makes me sad because while it is ok to be disappointed, we are not always gonna get what we want but we need to believe in ourselves and go for it and know there are other chances too. </p>

<p>I want to also respond to your comment that it will be rough for my kids to have to face disappointment...and I actually think it is not that rough because they have faced disappointments and have not gotten out of whack over it. Once my older D was in the state championships for ski racing and her ski pre-released (this is a malfunction of equipment, not a fall) and she was eliminated and by the rules had to go off the course. Nothing you can do, and this is a kid who I have rarely ever seen cry in her life and she never did. I have seen kids at races get overly upset. When she got deferred at Yale, she looked at the screen, and being realistic of the odds from day one, she said, I expected this would likely happen and she moved onto other things immediately. I think she handled disappointment very well. My younger one has a sort of deferral in hand from the first school she has heard from and she also did not get upset. She was disappointed and wants to still get in but she went onto her homework that night and dealt with it. </p>

<p>My older D wrote a college essay that actually dealt with a disappointment that happened in a lifelong sport, soccer, and how she dealt with it and made the most of it and turned it into a win win situation. This essay went to most of her colleges and she only got denied at one of them so the notion of how she chose to face a setback came across in a healthy fashion. The essay prompt was about your most meaningful extracurricular activity and rather than write about a triumph, of which she has had many accomplishments, she chose this particular disappointment and how she dealt with it to be the topic, not even in her most passionate EC. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

<p>Sooz
that was a beautiful post.</p>

<p>Whoa..texastaximom..you definately got some favoritism going on at your school. That is awful! </p>

<p>Of course I agree with you Susan that alot of casting is based on how your looks fit the role..its just a fact of the business.
Certainly some folks wont get picked because they lack the talent..but having the talent is only part of it. My daughter is fair and blonde and small and she fits a lot of roles now. As she grows older she may be too small for many roles. We shall see.</p>

<p>I have to laugh as I think back on our SOUND OF MUSIC..they were careful to pick all fair skinned children, one girl though went on vacation and came back with a very very deep tan! So there they were the VonTrapp children..all light and rosy and one who err ah..stood out a little more than the rest!</p>