<p>Well, Williams is one of the few schools that is need-blind for internationals. So in that way, it is attractive to internationals. Maybe they are trying to level the playing field a bit.</p>
<p>I would put internationals into two categories: those that need financial aid and those that do not. Those that need financial aid may have relatively limited information about American colleges and therefore may focus more on prestige simply because they do not have any real familiarity with LACs other than what they may see on a website or a college guide. Internationals in the latter category are often very knowledgable about elite LACs, and if they have reasons for anonymity and security, may even opt to attend one rather than a more well known (at least internationally) university located in an urban area. When I attended Amherst, Prince Albert of Monaco and Georges Papandreous (he was son of the Prime Minister of Greece at that time) were students. I believe the Shah's son attended Williams contemporaneously. I recently noticed that Uhuru Kenyatta, son of the first President of Kenya also is a graduate of Amherst. There are many other wealthy and powerful families from outside the U.S. that opt to send their children to what they perceive as a quiet and safe college environment. I think Wellesley definitely has this perception in addition to being an all women's college. In much of Asia, Wellesley is known as the college that Madame Chang Kai Shek attended, and many prominent families want to send their daughters there.</p>
<p>I think that there is a tremondous international talent pool. Need blind admissions and grants will make these colleges attractive to students of more "average" means from underdeveloped countries. However, given the disparities in cost of living (despite the dollars fall!) in some of these countries, attending a college in the U.S. is still a major expense, but not an impossible dream. A recent Amherst alumnus has set up a scholarship fund to cover the full college expenses for six students each year from either South America or Africa.</p>
<p>Okay, lets look at the problems with all of the previous posts. One, finding the college that is your fit. I am sorry, but this si incredibly difficult to do. You cannot know the culture of a school through a guide book, or even a campus visit, this is more regulated by the type of friends you make or the activites you do. So choosing a college solely based on fit, is a horrible idea. Why? Because, this is school. Getting a degree that will further you in life is the most important thing during your four years at college. For example, I got into 12/13 schools that I applyed too, and turned down the better fit matches for a school that had more opportunities for me after graduation, and guess what? I have amazing friends, and thus, an amazing time.</p>
<p>This being said, comaparing these schools can be tough. Amherst and Williams are by far the more prestigious of the three, and also offer better admissions to elite grad schools. Does Wellsley offer great opportunites after graduation? Of course. But are they as good? No. So then deciding between Amherst and Williams becomes tough. As far as I am concerned, Amherst has a better atomosphere and even more prestige throughout the US, cannot personally speak for china. This is probably because of the way that Amherst seems to be in the New York Times every few weeks, and yes, I do know Williams is ranked number 1 in USNEWS. </p>
<p>Wellesley is all girls, and I have plenty fo friends who decided to go there, and are now considering transferring. Is that really the college experience you want?</p>
<p>Fit is a very subjective criterion and its importance may vary for different people. Many students will be able to have excellent college experiences at multiple schools. As I have said, there are a number of schools that offer an education that is comparable to Amherst. Probably, most students could be happy at several of them (see my earlier post of applying to a number of LACs if that is what a student is attracted to). Still, when a student makes their final decision, it is worthwhile to ask: where do I think I will get the best education for me, and where would I envision being happy over the next four years? Sometimes, cost and financial aid will need to be factored in as well so this these questions cannot be made in a total vacuum.</p>
<p>In response to measureyourself:</p>
<p>Prestige may be very important for some students, and if so, they should use it as a decision factor. However, I do believe size, location, academic emphasis, academic programs, unique extracurriculars, athletics, etc. can play an important role in that decision process. For some students, the prevalence or lack of fraternities, drug use, parties, etc. may be important. For others, the particular mix of students-racial, ethnic composition matters. I agree that it is hard to discern these factors from a guidebook; hence, the dilemma some internationals face when making a college decision.</p>
<p>I personally believe that making a decision solely on prestige is too easy an approach and one may miss out on the best educational opportunity for oneself. Ideally, the student should choose the place he/she believes will offer the best eduational opportunities and perhaps grad/professional opportunities down the road, and NOT what everyone else thinks or what ranking lists say. It is very difficult for internationals since they cannot visit the schools they need to decide upon, and many probably will go with prestige as the major criterion. A number of years ago, I was accepted by Amherst and Yale. Don't know if I would get into either one now given the quality of the current applicant pools. Anyways, after visting both schools, I had the "gut" feeling that given who I was, Amherst was the place for me. I wanted to go to an academically rigorous school that also had a close-knit community of students and professors. My parents, who were immigrants, fully supported my decision even though they knew little about Amherst (even the most "prestigious" LACs do not get the recognition of many universities). Looking back, I am convinced that it was the right decision given who I was as an 18 year old, although there would never be a way of objectively knowing for sure. I am truly grateful for some of the special experiences and friendships that I made with both students and profs. Although prestige played some role in my college search, the type of education and the particular learning community played more of a role in my final decision.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Generally for LACS
1. SWAP
2. Wellsley, Carleton, Middlebury, Bowdoin
..and so on
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Let me guess...you go to Pomona, right??? The majority of people who rank Pomona with AWS go to Pomona (go figure!).</p>
<p>picking a college based on the extracurricular opportunities ludacris, you do not know what you are going to participate (or more importantly what you wont), until you get there. I did not say go to the most prestigious, but go to a school that will help you upon graduation. If you were to go to the most prestigious or well known of the three, it would be wellesley, though, upon graduation, the other two schools give you the better chance.</p>
<p>wait, you're saying fit is "a subjective thing" (sic), but, prestige isn't? And furthermore, that based on this supposed objective measure of "prestige", Wellesley College is less prestigious than AW? Are you on drugs?</p>
<p>Measureyourself,
I am not saying that prestige doesn't matter; but rather, other factors can, and perhaps should, enter the decision analyses of prospective students.
I know students that chose a division III school so that they could play a sport whereas they may not have been able to make the team or would have had to make a major time investment to play in a division I school. Their particular sport was an important part of their life up until then, and they wanted to have an intensive experience in college without jeopardizing their academic goals. Choosing a LAC for extracurriculars would not be ludicrous for that individual if the academics and future opportunities after graduation were fairly similar betwen the Divison III and Divsion I school. </p>
<p>I also like to look at college as a value-added experience. What gives the most value to that experience may depend on the individual. A gifted but shy math student might be able to take higher level courses at a university and he/she may be able to pursue that passion to the limit as an undergraduate. However, it is possible that at a LAC, he/she might be able to do an independent study in some of these areas or perhaps more likely, explore or develop interests in other areas while in college in order to get a more well-rounded education-which afterall, is the goal of a liberal arts education. Most students attending LACs will go on to some graduate or professional school where they can then study their eventual area of expertise in depth. Additionally, LACs often, although not always, provide a more nurturing and close-knit community. The profs, deans, and most of your classmates will know who you are. Maybe for a shy student (I don't want to perpetuate the stereotype that math majors are shy but allow me this example), a LAC may be a better place for him/her to grow as a person and develop social skills. Perhaps that student might even be happier (again very subjective) at a LAC (although it could still be vice versa depending on the the individual). What is important is that students try to know themselves well and what they want from college when they choose which college to attend.</p>
<p>When I visited the Amherst admissions office unannounced after acceptance, the dean of admissions immediately knew who I was after I introduced myself, even though we had never met. Maybe by chance he read my folder or maybe he made a point to read over the applications of all the admits. Or perhaps he had a photographic memory. Anyways, it was a bit scary at first but it definitely made a strong impression upon me as I felt that I counted as an individual and was not a statistic. </p>
<p>Another vignette: one of my former professor develops puzzles as a hobby and I was touched to receive quite unexpectedly one of his newest creations just two weeks ago. It was a wonderful reconnection to my former college experience that came out of the blue and reminded me that learning is an intensely personal yet shared experience. Hard to put any "prestige" value when something like that happens so many years after graduation.</p>
<p>"Wellesley College is less prestigious than AW? Are you on drugs?"</p>
<p>LOL--I'm biased re Amherst but well put.</p>
<p>You know guys, I'm really curious about a few things.</p>
<ol>
<li>It's funny that when a certain lady on these boards chooses to defend her stance against football guy here on his (incredibly narrow minded) I might add view, guess who she chooses to use as the dart board?</li>
</ol>
<p>Ans: Pomona!</p>
<p>Funny how she uses that name instead of the OTHER 3 NAMES THAT ARE ACTUALLY BEING DISCUSSED ON THE BOARD. We had nothing to do with this, someone praises Pomona's academics (together with Carleton and Davidson), and what, something in you clicks, that latent sense of our inferiority to Amherst? To Williams? TO Wellesley? You know, Pomona isn't ranked higher than Wellesly, but we're no 7, and if you keep yoursef fairly informed, US News isn't exactly the prime source to go for rankings of QUALITY of schools. Prestige? Yeah, we don't match up. Academics? Students? We are pretty much on par. </p>
<ol>
<li>Oh, and when people use SWAP as an acronym for top LACs, notwithstanding that it is used sometimes (not often), you automatically assume that it's always from Pomona. Search this board - I've seen a fair number of posters who do use that acronym and they are not from Pomona.</li>
</ol>
<p>In short, if you guys choose to look down on us, that's cool. We don't aspire to knock your gold-plated feet off your pretty ivy perch, we're confident that we're on of the very best colleges in the nation, and that's enough for us. But the way you guys love to set us up CONVENIENTLY (OH WE'RE FROM THE WEST COAST OMGOMG) for your stupid fights and use us as a punching bag is downright shameful. Amherst, Williams, Swat and Wellesley are all one of the very best. So for goodness sake, behave like you are from there, and look into your own biases - do you think they are justified?</p>
<p>Did anyone choose between these schools and have regrets? (Wish you had gone to the other one...or to a different LAC...Pomona, Swat, Haverford?)</p>