We're picking up the pieces, but what went wrong?

Parents Forum
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<p>Do you have a decent GC that you can do a post-mortem with? You sound like an ideal candidate for our hosts deferal reversal/waitlist program (not an endorsement, haven't used!) Only a careful read of your son's application will help figure what went wrong, or didn't go right--aside from just the numbers game at the schools you list.</p>

<p>Also since you don't give stats and specific EC's, it's hard to say. Not that many here really know...</p>

<p>I'm so sorry for your news, I had worried constantly that we were being unrealistic, esp after reading how ppl sneer her at anything less than 4.0. But dd had the experience you were hoping for. Great acceptances. I guess I'll get more info when I talk to the GC, but I think what got her in was: </p>

<p>gpa over 3.75 at demanding school with a fully loaded schedule + high SAT's (really this is a given,right?)....
Strong leadership EC's
Highly respected by faculty, so stellar rec's
Killer hook, years of fieldwork, research and publication in a science area of interest- she didn't even highlight all the accomplishments here
Interesting and exciting essay, the entire app package</p>

<p>DD is equally adept at math and language is musical and artistic too. this makes her very unsure what she wants to do or where to study. But I hope his application did not hark back to 2nd grade promise or anything. Lots of kids here made that mistake in the essays.</p>

<p>Your list was a lot more top heavy than dd's. The rejected's are the ones you need a stellar accomplishment for, it seems to me. dd had many more schools between top 10 and oberlin, so perhaps your list could have used more Match schools.</p>

<p>Hope this helps and I'm sorry you are having this result. Take strength in his stong profile and assured success. This is just another thing to figure out. He should certainly contact the waitlist schools with a thoughtful and honest letter. I think they would respond to this very sorry situation.</p>

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<p>Northstarmom, yes you are basically correct that he didn't put lots of effort into the Oberlin and Wash U apps. Truthfully, I'd say that the Wash U app was a sort of last minute effort and not a great match for him. But due to the expense and time involved in his music activities we weren't able to visit those schools. Isn't it possible that Oberlin didn't want to accept him when they saw the list of the other schools they requested he put down?</p>

<p>I personally don't think of the Merit Scholar award as being a 'distinction,' even tho the cut- off score to win in our state is the highest, but I was basically using that group of kids as a basis of camparison as they have been tops in the class over the years. Since my son was born in this town I've been able to observe the progress of these kids for many years. He and the other merit winners have consistently been at the top of the heap academically, which isn't to say that there aren't a zillion other outstanding kids. And he is certainly on an intellectual par with them and his other friends who went on to top colleges last year. </p>

<p>He has received distinctions in his activities on more than a school level as you point out. But I don't think it's necessary to distinguish if he was as competent as the other kids. There are kids I know of who have been accepted to top schools that have nothing on him. </p>

<p>I can't help but think that if he hadn't had to check that little box saying that he was applying for financial aid that things would have turned out differently. I'm feeling that these schools depend on students who will pay for full tuition and then give the aid awards to those who are at the bottom and the middle class kids get trashed.</p>

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<p>Oh, Andi, I'm so sorry to hear this news. I know from reading your prior posts what a fine student and exceptionally talented musician your son is. I'm wondering if he wound up preparing a piano tape to accompany his RD applications? If not, I think it would be worthwhile to prepare one to submit with his waitlist letters. Swarthmore, in particular, might be thrilled to have a pianist of his calibre. (His talent may be less of a draw at Oberlin, with its conservatory.) </p>

<p>Has your son considered a gap year? With his abundant interests and talent, he could surely find something fascinating to do.The child of a parent on this board (nopoisonivy, I think) took a gap year and was just accepted to Williams and one of HYP. </p>

<p>My best to you and your son. I hope as this unfolds, we'll all be able to read about a good result.</p>

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<p>No Bettina, he didn't at all mention this second grade teacher's comments lol He doesn't even know that she said that. I was just trying to portray him in an understandable way in a limited amount of space. He's a kid who has been self propelled and not prepped or pushed in any way. For example he took the SATs once in HS after he studied the books himself and got 800 and 750. Meanwhile half the other kids in town were taking prep courses and taking the tests for the third time. He wrote his essay on the inspiration and lessons he learned from performing music by Shostakovich.</p>

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<p>There are many reasons for what has happened, and I can't agree with Chocoholic's post more. Many people do so many things outside of school you would never know about. And a student who has potential is very different than a student who takes that potential and works hard with it to achieve that potential. I'm sure that your son will take this experience as a lesson not only to put his full effort into everything, but also as motivation to "make up" for his downfalls to reach the same success as the other NMS Finalists. I am sure he will be motivated, knowing that he is "as good" as those people and will work hard to get there. I am just speculating that his applications did not do justice to the person he truly is. I am in agreement that he needed more safeties, but what's done is done. Personally (dont tell anybody shhhh), I considered Cornell a safety for myself (because of my stats in relation to those that are accepted from my school), but I applied to Case Western and Boston College for true safeties, and Rutgers as a super safety. After I was deferred from Harvard EA, I simply became that desperate as to think of what I would do if I didn't get in anywhere i.e. plans to start a business and do charity work in Africa during a gap year. I am happy to say that I have been accepted by Princeton.</p>

<p>It will all work out. Good luck in the future.</p>

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<p>Thanks so much wjb. You just gave me an idea. He could contact Swarthmore and tell them that his performance on 'From the Top' will be broadcast in May, they could then listen. And I think you have a good point about Oberlin; they most likely would have preferred him to play a sport since they already have so many musical students.</p>

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<p>This is heartbreaking. I'm so sorry for your son. The truth is that the difference might have been only that he plays violin instead of bassoon (just an example -- I don't know what he plays, but I'm sure he's good at it.) </p>

<p>The question is what to do now. Besides the possibility of Scotland (I'd go there in a shot, personally), I'd also get the GC involved with those waitlisted schools. Then, I'd look at the list of schools that are still taking applications or have openings -- someone posted a link on here last year. Mostly, I'd have him think hard about a gap year. Then, he might apply to some schools not on his list this year ( U of Chicago is one that springs to mind, and Northwestern has excellent music, as does U of Michigan). He might also look into Columbia's school of General Studies, as did a kid I know in a similar situation. When the dust has settled, maybe you could help him find something really wonderful and exciting to do in that year. There are students who have posted here who have been rejected one year by a competitive school and admitted the next. They may have done something in the meantime to make themselves stand out more from the pack of extremely high achievers, they may just have been compared to a different group the next year, or they may have convinced the schools of their true interest.
The very, very best of luck.</p>

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<p>Andi: Can you go a step further, contact NPR, and send Swarthmore a CD of his performance on From the Top? Swarthmore also needs to know just what the program is and what an extraordinary honor it is to be invited to perform on it.</p>

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<p>wjb do you know what nopoisonivy's s did during his gap year?</p>

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<p>So sorry andi-
There is no rhyme or reason sometimes, but from what you've described above, your s. sounds like an incredible kid, and Oberlin and Edinburgh would be lucky to have him!! </p>

<p>And what an opportunity to see the world! If he does go to Edinburgh, tell him to be sure to visit the zoo for the penguin walk. They all waddle out in line at feeding time. It is just precious.</p>

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<p>"Northstarmom, yes you are basically correct that he didn't put lots of effort into the Oberlin and Wash U apps. Truthfully, I'd say that the Wash U app was a sort of last minute effort and not a great match for him. But due to the expense and time involved in his music activities we weren't able to visit those schools. Isn't it possible that Oberlin didn't want to accept him when they saw the list of the other schools they requested he put down?"</p>

<p>Anything is possible, however my guess is that what hurt more was the lack of care with the application. I went to college in your area, and also have friends there. In general, people in Boston have a strong bias against the Midwest. </p>

<p>That may have come out in your son's application: He simply may not have put the thought into it that he did the Ivies. It's also hard for students to individualize applications to many colleges especially when they are carrying tough courseloads.</p>

<p>Not visiting also may have hurt him particularly since you are in an affluent area of the country and I'm assuming your son comes from an educated household. The plus is that if either school waitlisted him simply to determine whether he's really interested, a call from his GC and a strong letter of interest from him may get him off the waitlist.</p>

<p>" There are kids I know of who have been accepted to top schools that have nothing on him. "</p>

<p>It is very difficult to know what one's offspring's classmates are doing in their ECs. Lots of people simply don't talk about these kind of things. What is seen at school is often simply the tip of the iceberg when it comes to students' accomplishments and talents.</p>

<p>When it comes to Wash U, from what I have seen, I doubt if checking financial aid made any difference. Wash U seems to be extremely generous with financial aid and merit aid.</p>

<p>I think that Swat is a tough school to get into for anyone. It's small, and my impression is that it carefully picks a certain type of student.</p>

<p>When it comes to the Ivies, from what I have read, this year was a record year of applications for all, and thus it was far harder this year to get in than in previous years.</p>

<p>If the colleges used interviews as part of admissions, and your son went into the interviews with any assumption that he was a shoo-in, that attitude also may have hurt him. I occasionally have seen students posting on CC complaining about having to do "so many" college interviews.</p>

<p>They seem to have no appreciation for the fact that adcoms or alum interviewers are taking time and effort to talk to them. The students seem burdened by the interviews, and that attitude can really hurt them.</p>

<p>The students' can come across as bored and overly prepared, and that can lead the interviewers to think that they lack the intellectual or EC passion that the top colleges look for.</p>

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<p>hey jym626 I'll be sure to tell him about the penguins! Maybe he can have his photo taken with them and send it to the admissions offices with a note saying the this is what he's been doing since they rejected him. </p>

<p>Edinburgh has one program of study that is physics and music. It may be right up his alley.</p>

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<p>There is a book of wonderful gap year ideas. Someone help me out with the title....</p>

<p>Now, I see your son plays piano (not violin, as I had guessed) and he is obviously awesome at it.</p>

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<p>Does he want to present himself as a music student or as a math student? I can speak more to what is a convincing level of achievement in math, and my wife is familiar with what music students do (as she is a piano teacher). What I haven't gained from the thread yet is whether the profile he wanted to project was "bright, well-rounded kid" or "well-lopsided" kid with music as the main passion, or with math as the main passion, or what?</p>

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<p>I don't know what nopoisonivy's son did, but I just checked to make sure I had the name right. I did -- it was Princeton that just accepted him, after rejecting him last year. Maybe you could PM nopoisonivy to ask him/her about S's gap year experience.</p>

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<p>I think if we're all to be honest, the issue is that this highly qualified kid did not connect with adcoms. For a proper post mortum, figuring out why is important. I would have his counselor call. Good possibilities are his essay or his recs.</p>

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<p>Andi, how disheartening! I agree with others that he had an uphill battle with his local peer group. Also, his music might not have been as big a help at Oberlin with the conservatory.</p>

<p>As Bettina mentioned this might be time for professional help, both to campaign with the waitlist schools, and to sort out his options.</p>

<p>I know someone who spent a year at Edinburgh, and absolutely loved it, still goes back whenever possible. I actually visited Edinburgh with her briefly - it is a great town - and saw her student housing, which was just assigned to her, amazing location.</p>

<p>Good luck to you and your son.</p>

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<p>Northstarmom, I didn't mean '....have nothing on him..' as obnoxiously as that sounded. I don't know what they do for ECs or whatever. I just mean in innate intellectual capacity he is on a high level. He has one friend who had parents that paid for a college counseling service, SAT prepping up the wazoo and got he got into a top school. I've known this kid for 12 years and he's bright but not a huge intellect. </p>

<p>BTW, my son enjoyed his interviewers and wrote them all thank you letters. He in no way comes across as bored, as he finds life and people to be very interesting. And despite his accomplishments he is rather humble, having learned from having a sibling with a learning disability that academic accomplishment do not make one person superior to another.</p>

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<p>andi: thos was a heart breaking story...our thoughts and prayers that things will turn out good.</p>

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<p>If your gc is good, I'd ask him/her to contact the waitlist schools and see what can be done. Don't you think that schools would be more willing to admit a student off the waitlist who doesn't have other options? I can't prove that, but had a conversation with a school my s. was waitlisted at; the dean asked where he'd sent in his deposit and went on to say what a great school it was (it is) - the point is, I had the feeling then that they felt he'd do fine there (for what it's worth, literally, it was a higher ranked school, but the wait list school really was his first choice) and he was not offered admission off the wait list. If your gc isn't very good, you can tackle it yourself or seek outside help, but be aware that some schools won't deal with paid consultants.</p>

<p>Regarding the question of whether applying for financial aid affects admissions: I think you can find each school's policy on that by looking on their web site. Some state that it has no bearing, others might say it's a factor in the last 10 percent of admissions or whatever. </p>

<p>Re: a college's knowledge of the other schools applied to. If you fill out the FAFSA, as I recall, you can list up to six schools on the form. Each one of those schools knows about the others. I've never felt that students should hide where they've applied since it's so easy for schools to find out. Before a college would factor a student's other applications into their decision, don't you think they first answer the question of whether the student fills a need they have in their incoming class? I think you're giving the college too much credit. I don't think they spend enough time on each application to try and make predictions regarding what a student's application strategy might be.</p>

<p>The other thing that struck me was that you didn't seem to have true safeties on the list - no state schools, for example, especially if you're applying for financial aid, you need not only schools where admission is almost certain but financial safeties if the aid you're seeking doesn't come through. This is something I think your gc should have noticed and remedied. </p>

<p>Finally, I do feel for your child (and you) but I hope you don't start to see your child or let him see himself as a victim. He's a very bright, accomplished young man and his future will be good. You have to move on from wondering why x and y got in, use your creativity and intelligence to come up with desirable alternatives - through the waitlist, Edinburgh, gap year, etc. Time to make some lemonade.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>