We're picking up the pieces, but what went wrong?

Parents Forum
121

<p>Northstarmom you may be right about skimping on the apps, not dramatically, but enough to have made a difference. He was so involved with demanding school work and ECs that he needed an extra 24 hours in the day. I would guess that he didn't realize exactly how important the actual applications were, thinking that his record spoke for itself. He'll probably put a LOT more into them the next time around.</p>

<p>Jamimom thanks for doing battle with the power shortage to get your post written. You're a store house of information. I've just pm'd nopoisonivy to ask about her s's experience.</p>

<p>mstee-- good question. I think perhaps yes. An early rejection like that would have hit us with a huge reality check. We would have regrouped and been asking a lot of these questions back then. In retrospect, the deferral did not do us any favors! I believe we would have looked harder to find some other schools and definitely filled out more applications. That said, he wasn't about to apply to just any school for the sake of simply enrolling as a freshman in '05. We went into this with our eyes open, just simply expecting that he'd get into at least one of them. Based on his many friends from music venues and at his hs he would have expected to have gotten the results they have.</p>

122

<p>One more suggestion from our experience. We also got a deferral from a top Ivy EA (Harvard). Then we wound up with acceptances from Princeton and Stanford. We had a legacy at Princeton and a grandfather who taught at Stanford. However, I don't think that's the whole story of why she got in. First, both Princeton and Stanford have a lower SAT range, which made her 1470 probably more standard. Second, her applications at Princeton and Stanford were absolutely better than the EA app. First, her essays were better. She put more of her genuine self into them, partly because the prompts - who most affected you and what would you tell a roommate - sourced her being. My D. is more impressive in person than on paper, because her real intelligence is emotional intelligence and shows up in her ability to get people to do what she wants them to do. That part of her came through only in the Princeton/Stanford essays. Second, we had extra recommendations in both places. I wrote her one for Princeton, telling stories of how she has been a leader since she was born, including the movie she made in 11th grade on Dante's Inferno which required her whole family to take turns submerging themselves in the bathtub. Her 9th grade teacher, one who saw her come into a new school and proceed to tackle the popular crowd without resorting to drinking all the while maintaining her "overachiever" status, and who was an alumnus of Stanford, wrote her the extra rec for Stanford.</p>

<p>So the pattern here is one of really making the extra effort to ensure that your kid's true self, the things that make him so special and unique beyond his incredible academic statistics and talent, that I think is what saved us. </p>

<p>And along that line - it really did occur to me that perhaps Berurah could write your son a rec. She's an amazing, emotionally connected writer who knows and loves kids. Just a thought. I'm sure he has other adults in his life who can do the same thing for him - make his live self jump off the page at those admissions officers.</p>

123

<p>Alumother--I'm trying to visualize the family members in the bathtub! Wow, what a nice family you have to go along with that!</p>

<p>Andi--Like you, though I only know your S from what your have posted here, I certainly would have expected one of the reaches to come through. Just bad luck, IMO. Some little things might have made the difference, but who knows what? Thanks for posting. Your story will help someone else to avoid a similar outcome next year, I'm sure. And I'm guessing there are others in the same position as your S who are getting lots of good ideas of what to do now from this thread as well. Best of luck with those waitlists.</p>

124

<p>People here have suggested that the GC NOT call schools on his waitlist - but I disagree. I think it behooves the GC to call and find out if the file that got sent was complete, and confirm that it does not have erroneus (sp?) information in it. I have heard of the wrong gpa or incorrect SAT scores being listed on the transcript! (I realize that if this was the case, the OP's son probably would have been rejected, not deferred at his first school.... but still, it's the perfect excuse to call.) Then GC could push for info on his file, restate his interest in the school and mention his new accomplishments. OP's son can call on his own, write, visit etc. after this intial call has been made. Perhaps there was an error on the second round of apps sent! The GC should make the initial calls to find out if this is the case.</p>

125

<p>
[quote]
it really did occur to me that perhaps Berurah could write your son a rec. She's an amazing, emotionally connected writer who knows and loves kids.

[/quote]
Gulp. Unless I missed something and Berurah has some long-standing real-world connection with Andi's son, preferably one that involves his work as well as his character, I fear this could backfire. Not that Berurah isn't a wonderful writer, but most admissions committees aren't looking for emotional appeals from friends and loved ones, let alone strangers (though Alumother's letter to Princeton sounds unusually interesting).</p>

<p>Teachers and mentors are different, and I'd see if one or more of those could write a detailed, heartfelt additional recommendation for Andi's son.</p>

126

<p>I agree with anxiousmom. With the barrage of calls that are likely to hit the admissions office's phone systems tomorrow, an initial call from the GC may more likely (1) get through to a human being and (2) get heard. Not that a very-bright-very-sincere prospective student shouldn't call, I just think the <em>first</em> call, the "introduction" (or in this case, re-introduction) is more likely to fall on receptive ears if it comes from the GC. Also, the GC can probably ferrett out what happened, what might have been lacking, etc., and then the follow-up call by your s. can be more focused. Intresteddad's comments on the Swat board were excellent, EXCELLENT. I think the GC, (besides the fact that he/she may owe you one), can open the door first for your son to walk through. The important thing, in my mind, is that the GC call EARLY, and get back to your s. ASAP with feedback from the conversation(s). Then your s.can make the follow-up call(s) to the same regional adcomm and take it from there, schedule a time to meet face-to-face, or whatever it takes. I would be as delicately firm with the adcom as you can that your son would like to make that follow-up call ASAP, so time is of the essence with respect to the first contact by your GC. Wonder if your presence in your GC's office personally would help. (Then maybe you can be in the background when he/she calls the schools). The GC is more likely to get a "straight" answer form the adcomms, in my opinion. Kinda like doctors giving more direct feedback to other doctors who are family members of a patient. They speak the same language,and know what to listen for.</p>

<p>I hear that your s's first priority is Swat. Not sure if Wash-U or Oberlin are next. I'd ask the GC to follow up with all 3. Perhaps the GC can find out where on the WL your s. is at each school, and can tell which of the 3 would be most likely to revisit his application first. That might help prioritize or strategize. GOOD LUCK and please keep us posted!</p>

127

<p>To pick up on what on Alumother's comments, I don't know how productive it is to speculate on whether or not your son's talents and character showed through on his applications. As others have said earlier, it could just be simply his bad luck as he might easily have been accepted at any or all of the schools, but, by chance, had the bad luck not to be accepted at any of them. But from our own experience, my son was accepted to four schools in the HYPMS group three years ago with very high stats, while many others were rejected with equal or better records. In his case, he had two additional recommendations which were excellent. One was from our state's Governors School, which stated that he was one of the most outstanding students of his session, and also was very personalized as to his academic abilities, work ethic, and ability to work with others, etc. (I believe that letters from this particular program are well known and respected by top colleges.) The other was from a scientist at a state government agency with whom he had done an internship, which was also very detailed and personalized as far as his hard work, abilities, intellectual curiousity, etc. Also, as Alum mother said about her daughter, he put a tremendous amount of thought into his applications as far as what he wanted his long main essay and each of the several short answer essays to demonstrate about his personality and interests. His applications were also carefully proofread both by him and by at least one other person to make sure that there were no typos, and they were all allowed to sit for a few days after completion for a final read to make sure no errors had been overlooked. It was a very time consuming and stressful process to complete 9 applications, and I can understand how your son felt so busy with music, school, etc, that he didn't have time to spend all of his time working on his applications. My son ended up being admitted to 8 of the 9 school she applied to, and, interestingly, the one school he was waitlisted at was Cornell. He did not visit Cornell, even though it is within driving distance of our home, and the alumnus who interviewed him was a rather cynical and unprofessional interviewer, who left a bad feeling for the school with my son due to some of his comments (This is not at all meant to be a criticism of Cornell, except that it is unfortunate that they have such an unsuitable person representing their school to applicants.) So perhaps his lack of interest in Cornell was somehow perceived by the school, leading to his not being accepted there. Of course, I have no way of knowing if any of what I have just said was the key to his admission success, but these addditional personalized recs and the extreme care he put into each and every application certainly cannot have harmed the way his applications were viewed. Again, I wish your son the best of luck! I am certain that someone as talented as he is has a wonderful future ahead of him.</p>

128

<p>" I believe we would have looked harder to find some other schools and definitely filled out more applications. That said, he wasn't about to apply to just any school for the sake of simply enrolling as a freshman in '05. "</p>

<p>Please imagine that I am saying this gently because I know that it's hard to "hear" tone on message boards.</p>

<p>I think that your Boston biases may have been hurting you throughout the admissions process, and could continue to hurt you unless you are able to notice it even more.</p>

<p>As a person who spent 4 years in Boston at Harvard, and who has friends in Boston now, I know that Bostonians tend to really value colleges like Harvard, and to some extent the other Ivies, and to not in general see the value in other colleges.</p>

<p>Thus, I have heard of Bostonians whose kids apply to, for instance, Harvard, Yale and U Mass. as if there's nothing worth applying to between HY and U Mass., which is above the level of the kind of safety school a candidate to HY probably would need.</p>

<p>Anyway, my impression has been that both you and your son had the assumptions that Swat, Oberlin and Wash U were a bit beneath your son, and would be eager to have him. Thus, it wasn't necessary for your son to do anything but to show basic interest in order to get an acceptance.</p>

<p>Your statement that I quoted above basically dismisses virtually every college in the country. By the time your S got his Yale deferral, there still was time for your son to have applied to many quality colleges that would have allowed him to pursue his music and math interests, and that also could have been used as safety or match colleges for him.</p>

<p>Anyway, I'm mentioning this now because if your son pursues getting off the wait lists, it will be important for him and for you to take close looks at those colleges and to perceive their real value. If he decides to take a gap year and try again, it will be important for him to cast a wider net and to also enter the process with an open mind, including about the possibilities that a wider variety of colleges offer.</p>

<p>Places like Carleton and St. Olafs are quality colleges that offer good options for students interested in music and science (and I assume math). These could be the kind of places for your son to add to his lists, and to look at with an open mind, not seeing them as things he'd have to lower his standards for to accept, but places that would offer him opportunities where he could flourish in college.</p>

<p>It's not necessary for your son to go abroad to have good educational options meeting his needs.</p>

129

<p>Mstee, let me check on that. Don't know the specific. The offer came as the result of his performance on some National German exam, but I do not know the specific program. Also, CMU puts together an excellent for college credit summer in Germany--if you play around with the search engine on their site, you can find it. Also the Deutsche Schule in White Plains, NY and NYC can give you info on such programs. There are not that many German majors these days and it can be helpful at some schools if it is a subject of interest. This young man was gung ho to be a business major and the German was just a sideline but he decided to take the year abroad opportunity---actually it was supposed to just be a semester. He met someone who suggested he apply to Hopkins and Dartmouth (it was that year when those two German profs were murdered), and he did. He got into both school, and CMU and a couple of state schools as safeties, as he no longer wanted to go to Babson where he had a reserved spot. He also matured ever so much from that year abroad and is now totally fluent in German. It was a wonderful experience all around.</p>

130

<p>I am so sorry Andi - your son sounds like a wonderful kid from everything I've read above. You've received some great advice above. My two cents: (1) I do think the GC should call the WL schools - mostly because I think the GC is more likely to get through, and the schools may be more forthcoming with the GC and (2) just an anecdote: a few years ago, a top student at our local high school found herself in much the same position as your son. Her GC made the calls to a number of schools - and was able to get the girl off the WL at Wash U, where she is now very happy.</p>

131

<p>The problem with waitlists is they serve 2 purposes (aside from the obvious of being a reservoir of bodies). They let colleges find out if a student is really interested in them. But they also allow a college to reject a student without the harshness of a rejection letter so that future students from the HS with similar qualifications will still apply. And you have described your son as quite talented. So while the hope is there, I don't think getting taken off the waitlist is a sure thing at this point.</p>

<p>As a parent it can be hard to have perspective on these matters. The child has shown talent since an early age, is well-loved at school, etc. But so much happens out of notice!! The OP writes "The teachers mail the recs, that's why she probably didn't see them. I think basically in a public school such as ours, as good as it is, there isn't a lot that the GC does besides coordinate things and write the GC rec. She said that when teachers don't have good things to say that they usually decline to write one. Hopefully this is true!!" Sadly, this is often not true. If your son did not ask his teachers if they would be willing to write a strong letter then all they are morally and ethically obligated to do is write their true impression, be it good or bad. Second, if your son didn't put much effort into the apps for other schools it may have come across in lackluster essays.</p>

132

<p>
[quote]
Not that Berurah isn't a wonderful writer, but most admissions committees aren't looking for emotional appeals from friends and loved ones, let alone strangers.

[/quote]
Agreed. I only brought this up because I thought from previous posts that Berurah actually had a personal relationship with the family. The point I really meant to make is that (IMHO) the ability of the recommender to write well and with heart is important, as well as the stature of the recommender, and the relationship of the recommender to the student, and the relationship of the recommender to the university.</p>

133

<p>Even teachers who say they are going to write a strong letter may not actually do so. For example, a teacher may write, "So-and-so is a hard worker." By this she means, "He doesn't spend his day smoking in the parking lot and comes in prepared for class discussion." However, the adcom hears, "He is already working his tail off just to get his high school grades; beware." I am using this as an example, not saying that they said this about Andi's son. However, they may have said he was "well-loved" in a way that did not convey his being intellectually challenging. Just speculating here. S asked teachers to write recs for pre-college summer programs sophomore and junior years, and these were very revealing! Gave us a good idea about whom to ask for the college recs. </p>

<p>Also, the kid who is president of the student council, serious about music, on the debate team, etc., is often absent from class, which is often puzzling to teachers -- their best students are often the ones they see the least! Often, even if the student is getting terrific grades, they have no idea he is out there doing amazing things. </p>

<p>Many teachers do not seem to realize that adjectives alone just don't help convey a student's qualities, but that <em>anecdotes</em> are needed. We found it to be helpful to supply the teachers with the student's resume and to have the student remind her in writing of some of the highlights of his time in her class. Also, the gc asked for written responses to questions; we sent in loads of anecdotes. Happily, he had his own, but I think he's that rare gc.</p>

<p>At our phs all recs get sent to the gc, who decides which would be good to send. Students ask more teachers than they need.</p>

134

<p>Northstarmom I appreciate what you're saying and I understand that it makes sense, to an extent. But I need to clarify things a bit. Somehow the math interest got mixed up in things on this thread unintentionally. What he is looking for is a general liberal arts program with very strong music and an environment that could offer cultural events such as concerts. As such, he would have loved to have gone to Columbia, with their core curriculum and access to Lincoln Center or Harvard with all the events at Symphony Hall. He truly would not be happy at a college like St. Olafs or Carleton. They're great schools but trust me- he would not be happy at them. I know that going to college means meeting new and different people, but it also means choosing an environment that is stimulating to you. It flys in the face of reason that he should have to make himself a fish out of water to go to college.</p>

<p>He MOST definitely did not look down on Swat, Oberlin or Wash U as "beneath" him in any way. Seriously, how could anyone think that? Swat is listed at the top of the LACs and he knows several kids who go to or have gone there. They're hardly what one would describe as slackers.</p>

<p>Regarding Oberlin and Wash U. We already have one son in college, a freshmen. We can't afford to fly our second son around the country every time there is a vacation! That's one of the reasons we didn't visit Oberlin and Wash U. We couldn't afford to. There are many things about Oberlin he likes, but the location was a huge drawback because of its distance from us and because it's in the boonies- something that didn't appeal to him at all. He had also heard that as much music as there is there, that it can be difficult to find performance opportunities if you're not enrolled in the conservatory as well as the arts and sciences and he didn't want to do the joint degree program.
Wash U as I've mentioned before was probably not a well thought out choice.</p>

<p>Also, per one of your earlier posts, yes there are lots of musicians at Harvard, Columbia and Yale. That's one of the attractions. A good musician usually wants to play with others. He would not go choosing a school because his being one of only a few musicians there would entitle him to stand out and possibly use the music talent as a hook. He specifically enjoys chamber music, which requires the participation of others. He loves nothing better than to have friends who can appreciate and converse about classical music and musicians. I've had many occasions to observe kids stare at him blankly when he refers to some passage in a symphony that they have never heard of. He wants to go to a school where he can find like minded individuals.</p>

<p>I perceive from your posts and from the posts of others on CC in different threads that you may think that there are parents who are so blinded by their love and admiration for their children that they do not see them as mere mortals. As I have more than one child, I can tell you that not all children are created as equals when it comes to intellect and love of academics. My other son easily found a moderately selective college that he loves and is perfect for him. He's happy there. The son I have posted about here has grown up in a town of incredibly well educated families and with easy access to museums and concert halls. He has many friends at both Harvard and Yale and has visited and done overnights at both schools. I reluctantly must say that throughout his life he has been a stellar student. I am not some deluded parent pushing a half wit into an Ivy league school. There are very good reasons for his wanting to go to certain ones.
I appreciate all of your input and advice - some of it is right on but other of it seems to have another agenda, which may be coming from your experience and or frustration helping others to select appropriate schools. I don't know.</p>

135

<p>Thanks again to all of you. I've read every response and I appreciate all of the suggestions. </p>

<p>anxiousmom I think your suggestion is right on and I'll incorporate your advice with interesteddad's. </p>

<p>alumother wow how I wish I could have Berurah write s a rec!! She's such a wonderful writer and speaks from the heart. Alas, we have only met thru cyber space during the EA rounds. Your approach with the personalization of the student was probably lacking on s's package. Will remedy that in the next go 'round.</p>

<p>aparent5 that's scarey to think of. I pray it's not the case here.</p>

136

<p>"I perceive from your posts and from the posts of others on CC in different threads that you may think that there are parents who are so blinded by their love and admiration for their children that they do not see them as mere mortals."</p>

<p>Yes. That's because it's true. There really are parents like that. It can be very hard for parents of students who are exceptional to realize that there are tens of thousands of exceptional students in this country, and they all can't get into HPYS. It also can be very hard for probably most parents of high achieving students such as NM scholars to realize how deep that field is and what kind of remarkable achievements many scholars and similar students have.</p>

<p>One even showed up on the doorstep of an alumni interviewer in my area to argue why her rejected offspring should have gotten in! Top colleges this time of year routinely have to field calls from crying parents and from parents threatening to sue because their kids were rejected.</p>

<p>When it comes to parents who have musician students who are getting some recognition for their talents, it's hard for the parents to realize that when it comes to HPYS, to stand out for music, the students need to virtually be prodigies. Yoyo Ma, for instance, was already very well known when he went to Harvard.</p>

<p>" I am not some deluded parent pushing a half wit into an Ivy league school. There are very good reasons for his wanting to go to certain ones. "</p>

<p>I have never suggested any such thing. I have repeatedly agreed with you that your son sounds outstanding, and deserves to go to a school where he could be happy.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, while 25 years ago, he probably would have been a shoo-in for virtually any place in the country, in this day and age, there are a lot of outstanding students who are very similar to your son. There also are many more top international students applying to American universities.</p>

<p>A disproportionately high number of excellent students live in your metropolitan area, and most of the top students in your area are applying to the same colleges, and have very similar ECs and academic achievements.</p>

<p>"What he is looking for is a general liberal arts program with very strong music and an environment that could offer cultural events such as concerts. As such, he would have loved to have gone to Columbia, with their core curriculum and access to Lincoln Center or Harvard with all the events at Symphony Hall. "</p>

<p>What about Case Western Reserve, Carnegie Mellon, Macalester, George Washington, Boston University, Boston College, Rice, Vanderbilt, Emory, Fordham? All are in cities with good cultural opportunities, and all probably have a lot of classical musicians. Some probably would have given an excellent student like your son very nice merit aid and other perks. </p>

<p>As I am not a college consultant, the schools that I listed might not be exactly what your son is looking for. However, given the range of colleges that is in this country, I am sure that there are more colleges where he could be happy and flourish than just the ones that he applied to.</p>

<p>" We can't afford to fly our second son around the country every time there is a vacation! "</p>

<p>Middle class students who go to college far from home typically do not go home to their families every time there's a vacation. They go home with roommates or stay on campus or find other activities such as internships in other cities or volunteer work that even may be school sponsored and paid for.</p>

<p>"Seriously, how could anyone think that? Swat is listed at the top of the LACs and he knows several kids who go to or have gone there. They're hardly what one would describe as slackers."</p>

<p>I have seen some parents and students on these boards and IRL who think that schools like Swat are easier to get into and are not as good as , for instance, Ivies. </p>

<p>"He truly would not be happy at a college like St. Olafs or Carleton. "</p>

<p>That may be true. That being said, I was a music nerd in h.s., and was a classical pianist and violinist and was in a college and h.s. orchestera as well as a chamber music group. Two of classmates who also were music nerds-- one a NM scholar, the other NM Commended -- went to St. Olafs and Carleton. </p>

<p>They had strong science interests, wanted a LAC, and seem to have had no problem finding like minded, classical music playing and appreciating people at those colleges. Both of those colleges also are a relatively easy drive from Minneapolis, which has many wonderful cultural offerings.</p>

<p>I am not insisting that your son would love those colleges. All I am saying is that it would be good if he and you had an open mind and explored more possibilities.</p>

<p>About Wash U -- my thoughts are that it probably was a good college for your son to apply to, and would have met many of his needs. He also would have had decent chances for merit aid. (Did he apply for merit aid there? I think some of their merit aid requires a separate application. Applying for merit aid also would have indicated serious interest.) </p>

<p>My guess is that the reason he got waitlisted was that his application looked like he was not seriously interested in Wash U. That may have hurt him more than his not visiting particularly since Wash U is far from where you live.</p>

137

<p>Andi, my daughter applied to Oberlin as a reach school 3 years ago. I can tell you that Oberlin is a school that truly warrents a visit, as it is not for everyone. Though I have heard it compared to Swarthmore, that is not the case at all, in my opinion. Carlten is much more like Swarthmore. Oberlin is pretty much out in the middle of no where and the school is the closest to Bard or Sarah Lawrence, in my opinion. I know a dozen people who transferred out of Oberlin because they did not mesh with the environment. For the right person, it is a great school, but is not a typical LAC. Also when you are looking at stats for the school and checking out the school, you need to be careful to separate the large conservatory from the school. It is 20% of the school so it packs a pretty big whallop in terms of definings things about the school. </p>

<p>I know several kids with stats similar to your son who are at Carleton and St. Olaf's. And Macalester and Grinnell. Some are on merit scholarships; they all love the schools. Oberlin to me, is more of a mixed bag as I simply know too many who just did not like it there. </p>

<p>If you end up going to HPY sight unseen, it is one thing, but the visits to schools like Oberlin, are necessary not only to get in, but for the student to feel out the environment. </p>

<p>I very risk adverse so I am not comfortable with kids applying to all match and reach type schools, especially if they are not the sort that can visit and make each school, particularly the less selective privates feel that they are viable matches that the student really wants. In a sense, your choices are much better defined than many students' lists, where they have some schools that are just on the list as safeties. I swear the reason kids get rejected from safeties is that they cannot sell the school that they are interested in the school and want to go there at all. So your applications are much more honest than most I see. But the realities of college admissions these days, is that you do have to sell yourself to the schools as they are not interested in accepting phantom students. If this was not something your son did not want to do, an app to UPITT, UMich, Indiana U, Wisconsin --any of these would have easily fit the safety definition without any show of interest beyond the app. PennState, Arizona, Florida may have given him a merit scholarhship, even a full ride, all with just a short app., But Oberlin, Goucher, F&M, et al want to see the applicant and want to see interest. Safety schools are not often love matches. If you love your safety, it's wonderful. But that is not why we add them to the list.</p>

138

<p>Andi, I go to a well known NE prep school with a lot of kids with your sons abilities and stats. As this case is my worst nightmare, I aked several in my dorm to read this thread including a college counselor here. </p>

<p>Everyone agrees that something major went wrong. It just seems impossible that with a good application and good recs that all of these schools would not have taken a kid with these stats and talents. It is statistically improbable.</p>

<p>Most here guess it was the recs. We agree that we would send new recs to waitlisted schools and any new schools he applies to. My college advisor, who has sat in on admissions at our very selective school, says it is surprising what some otherwise good recs say. A teacher might say he's immature or doesn't take input well, all sorts of things that make a difference in a highly competitive field.</p>

<p>There is no one at our school with his stats that didn't get into a top school. Not one. It's hard to understand all of these adults saying it was just bad luck. Impossible. It seems much more constructive to identify the problem!</p>

139

<p>Andi - I followed you to the Swarthmore forum and posted there, as that seems to be the path you are choosing to follow.</p>

140

<p>Northstarmom
There's a difference between being "open minded" and "making a choice." Because I've had children graduating from high school two years in a row, both of whom played classical music, I've read more than I care to think about regarding college music programs in this country. My son is interested in music "WITHIN" the liberal arts curriculum. Many of the schools you listed, Rice, Vanderbilt, Carnegie Mellon, BU do have great music programs. However those programs are within their conservatories. They either state that they discourage cross over between the arts and sciences and music programs or they put the a&s kids at the bottom priority when it comes to getting into classes. This is not what he's looking for. BC does not have a great music program. It has great sports and a religious bias that is not to his preference. Swarthmore would subsidize in full or part, depending on ability, music lessons. Just because a school lists "music" in its curriculum doesn't mean anything. One grad of our hs who was an excellent trumpet player went to an excellent LAC in Maine that boasted of a music program. After three days in the band he dropped out because it was so inferior to what he had been used to at a public high school.
Furthermore, my son happens to LIKE the east coast and does not particularly care to go to school far away and I respect his choice.</p>