We're picking up the pieces, but what went wrong?

Parents Forum
161

<p>In terms of a gap year, isn't Princeton significantly increasing their class size with next year's freshman class? </p>

<p>I disagree with just about everyone here. If he were my son, in addition to pursuing the waiting list option, I'd be looking around for schools where the deadline hasn't passed or where they accept late applications (usually it says on the website but I would also call if a school seemed like a good match). I'd also do a little research about schools that don't use waiting lists and call in early May to see how their yield worked out for them. My kid would be in college somewhere next year and if he didn't like it, that's more incentive to work hard on transferring. </p>

<p>Oh, and just so you don't think you're alone, this was a pretty rough week in our house too. So, we're right there with you picking up and moving on. </p>

<p>I would, as someone suggested, check into McGill. We were there a couple of years ago and Montreal is just great.</p>

162

<p>
[quote]
I was just up your way for Spring Break and realize being from Boston can be a big disadvantage for highly qualified students like your boy.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The big problem is that 5,217,113 kids from New England all have exactly the same college list. And, the list might as well be Xerox'd from the top half the USNEWS University and LAC pages. Meanwhile, you've got the rest of the country all driving towards the same 25 schools. You end up with a huge traffic jam.</p>

<p>With the kind of class rank, high school, and SATs that Andi's son had, even a mediocre, but interested application would have been an acceptance letter from a Wake Forest or an Emory or a Vanderbilt or a Grinnell or a Davidson or a Carleton or many other top-notch schools. Such is the power of the reverse commute. We just instinctively understood that from attending a New England college and knowing the huge percentage of kids from Mass, Conn, NY, and NJ. We also made sure that D visited and/or built a documented record of communication with her regional adcom at match/safety schools starting a year before the application deadlines, precisely to avoid the "Tufts syndrome".</p>

163

<p>andi,
first, let me say that I am sure that your son and you are going to work this out, and that he will be at a good school come fall. I've only got a couple of suggestions - first, go through any scrap of communication with the wait list schools with a fine tooth comb. Second, I think you might give a shot at appealing one of the ivies rejects. From a statistical standpoint, it probably won't work, is a waste of time, etc. Just a feeling. </p>

<p>As to what went wrong...</p>

<p>I think that one of the problems with having a son with no gapping holes in his resume is that one is less likely to have a sufficient level of paranoia going into the system. If you just look at the numbers (very rough assumption based on USNWR reported data from two years ago, ED/RD not factored, mini's finaid factor not considered, position in the applicant pool not considered, etc.) the probability of not being accepted outright at any of his schools looks like this:</p>

<p>.9 x .89 x .9 x .8 x .89 x .64 x .75 x .8 = .199 or about 20%</p>

<p>Looked at this way, he should have been accepted, and if the butterfly had flapped his wings at a different time, he would have been. </p>

<p>For your younger son (and for the junior parents reading this thread) the way of cutting the risk of no acceptances to have one or two less competitive schools in the mix - adding just one school that accepted more than it rejected would cut the risk of no acceptance in half, at least in theory. </p>

<p>My very best wishes for your upcoming quest.</p>

164

<p>I doubt if I can really bring greater advice to your situation as my son's situation was very unique. He was being primed for an art school education until Nov 2003 and worked on his portfolio for RISD. Early in December we received two Princeton view books with a letter from the Dean asking him to apply. I suppose the College Board had us registered so they mailed this out.
He had less than 3 weeks to put together an app and get rec letters (he was home schooled). His essays were cute but after having read some books on essay writing we realized how poor that they actually were. Even after visiting their art dept and sitting in classes (the drawing teacher praised his work) he still got the thin envelope in April.
His year off gave him an oppurtunity to work on a better application, more art (he is paid for his illustrations) and get involved in local and national political campaignes and an internship. These experiences helped him to mature, which made him a better writer, which strenghthened his application this time around. I think the lesson here is if the waitlist route proves unsuccessful have confidence that a year well spent in many activities can be translated into a more mature applicant that will shine through in the next application process. It may not be specifically the activities that is chosen but rather the passion shown in the application as he re-applies next year.
When the fat envelope did come from Princeton on Friday I thought it might be a special large rejection letter for students who dared to apply after a rejection. My son has joked that it might even have contained individual department rejections signed by dept chair persons:)
I hope that he gets off the wait list at Ob or Swat by showing a strong interest in the schools and some well crafted recommendations from people who know him.</p>

<p>Also may I add how much I have learned from some of the posters who have contributed to this thread as they spend time to give me thoughful counsel last year. We could not have done this without your help.</p>

165

<p>interesteddad -
I agree with the geographical issue, but I think that Carleton's gotten a trifle on the dicey side, too, from an admissions predictability standpoint.</p>

166

<p>Ohiomom--your explanation--insufficient paranoia--makes as much sense as any to me. . .</p>

167

<p>In terms of health insurance, you do need to check with your carrier. You may be able to use COBRA to cover him up to 18 months--do not know if you can then go back to his being a regular dependent once he becomes a full time student, but all of the colleges I know have very good coverage offered for students with no coverage for about $1000 a year, and at D and S's colleges, you had to opt out of it and show proof of insurance or they would automatically cover you as you are not permitted to go to those schools without such coverage. You had to prove that your insurance offered certain minimums that the universtiy coverage did. </p>

<p>I wish you and your son good luck, Andi. In a sense, as I said before, he not a whole heck of a lot worse of had he thrown in some safeties he did not want. I know several kids who did that and they are very unhappy with the choices that they have because though they went through the motions and applied to some safeties, they really did not want to go there and now that the time has come, they are exactly in the same boat as your son, though they have acceptances, as your son certainly can find a place to go--it's finding a place to go that fits is the problem. So though I can say you shoulda picked some safeties, I have to say that you wouldn't be necessarily happier had that been done, so don't blame yourself on that one. The waitlist from Yale was to me a pretty clear message that he was considered in the running for top level school--if anything went wrong, it had to happen thereafter if you are trying to sniff a trail. I think it is a combination of statistics coming out wrong, and just plain bad luck with the lack of demo int for Oberlin and Wash U (though with Wash U, many who visited were also waitlisted with a profile similar to your son's). I would not be getting too paranoid about bad recs or anything though I would take a sniff around about what went out at MidYear's time, and have a pow wow with the GC insisting that he talk to the schools and make sure that some mistake was not made. It is always possible. But statistically it is very possible that something like this could happen. Take care, Andi.</p>

168

<p>Andi- Your cc private message mailbox is full.</p>

169

<p>Andi,
I have no wise words to add, just want you to know that I think you are a wonderful mom to go to bat like this for your son. It must be so hard not to just want to bury your head beneath a pillow or go in and scream at someone (the GC, the teachers who wrote recs, the adcoms...). Instead you are getting lots of advice from very wise people, analyzing the options and preparing to move on the possibilities. Great job!</p>

<p>What would drive me the most crazy is the not-knowing-why part. I hope that you somehow can find the logic and truth behind what happened. If you do, please share it with all of us, because your S's outcome does NOT make sense. Your situation can eventually be a huge help to a lot of parents and future applicants, and I'm thinking that someday you will understand why this happened to you and that your family will be able to point specifically to the VERY GOOD things that developed from this temporary disaster. Best wishes to you; I'll be following closely how you handle this and sending prayers of success your way!</p>

170

<p>
[quote]
My kid would be in college somewhere next year and if he didn't like it, that's more incentive to work hard on transferring.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Now I am not saying this would not normally be the correct course to take but we got completely different advice from parents like NSM and others for my S.
Even some of our family members have said things like "why don't you go to a Community College in the fall". If the student passionately wants to go to a top school, a gap year can increase their chance if used properly. In my son's case I am glad we listened to the advice of many on this board. The year may help the student to write an essay that shows passion for a particular major or an EC that they excell in.
Again I am not saying this approach is the best prescription for the masses but if all else fails.........</p>

171

<p>First of all my heart goes out to you and your son. </p>

<p>As hard as it may be to figure out if something was amiss in his application, it may be a key in knowing what to do next. I would have him ask his friends what they think may have gone wrong. I find that the kids know a lot of details that we don't. I drove a group to a school event on Friday and overheard a lot of discussion about kids who didn't get into their top choices. The kids seemed to have a handle on "what went wrong" with each kid. In some cases their friends had tried to warn them ahead of time, but their advice fell on deaf ears.</p>

172

<p>I believe Andi when she says she doesn't think her son would be happy at Carleton or St. Olaf. It doesn't sound like she would be happy with him there either. But there are more students qualified to go to HYP etc than can be admitted, so top students need to broaden their focus. Given Andi's son's instrument and the school's location, Bard would likely have been the best safety option, assuming a visit and a decent job on their application.</p>

<p>But other northeasterners with similar interests should give St. Olaf consideration. Their orchestra is competitive with any student orchestra in the country, name conservatory schools excepted, and two of their choirs are better than any Ivy choir. And as tokenadult reported, the school is only a short bus ride away from the Twin Cities, where there are two full-time, world-class orchestras. (Boston only has one.) Two outstanding chamber music programs feature pianists. (BTW - pianists performing in the Twin Cities during the past ten days included Alfred Brendel, Louie Lortie, Christian Zacharias, Angela Hewitt and Renee Rosnes. Student tickets for three of these events were under $10.) Boston does have more museums, but if contemporary art is the focus, it does not have a museum as good as the Walker Art Center in Minneapolis. </p>

<p>If a student could forego an urban environment for most of four college years, Lawrence University would be another great option. I don't think it would be that tough for an urbanite to give up a few years of winter museum visits and twelve options for delivery chinese in return for a very good education and some excellent music opportunities. </p>

<p>All this does not lead me to eliminate the idea of a gap year for Andi's son or anyone else in a similar situation. In fact, a gap year is a great thing for certain students. But during the gap year the focus should not be on how to get into Harvard, but on developing a list of schools that meet the true needs of the student. In the case of Andi's son, that list should include Harvard, and maybe St. Olaf too.</p>

173

<p>Bard has a better piano faculty than Harvard or Princeton, headed by Richard Goode (and perhaps as good as Yale - Claude Frank is getting up there in age). The President of the College is the conductor of the American Symphony Orchestra; the English Department has Chinua Achebe, Saul Bellow, and John Ashberry - and they all teach undergraduates! (neither H nor Y nor P can match that). Joan Tower, the leading female composer in the U.S., teaches freshman music. They give out loads of merit aid, and the endowment has tripled in the past decade. </p>

<p>After visiting Harvard and meeting with the head of undergraduate music, my d. applied to Bard, and NOT Harvard, which, in terms of what it was offering, was decidedly inferior (and they told her as such - she couldn't even meet with, let alone study with, their leading composer, who only teaches graduate students, and that in alternate years. That's not what "I" say - that's what their Director of Undergraduate Music says.)</p>

<p>""ED/RD not factored, mini's finaid factor not considered, position in the applicant pool not considered, etc.) the probability of not being accepted outright at any of his schools looks like this:</p>

<p>.9 x .89 x .9 x .8 x .89 x .64 x .75 x .8 = .199 or about 20%</p>

<p>Looked at this way, he should have been accepted, and if the butterfly had flapped his wings at a different time, he would have been."</p>

<p>I would hardly take comfort from that. What you are saying is that for every 5 students who applied to these 7 schools, there is one sitting home with their family tonight without a single acceptance. That's a huge number! Factor in ED, and the easily documented greater ease in admissions if you are wealthy enough not to require financial aid, and it approaches 1 in 2.</p>

<p>Having said that, and having had a different outcome in admissions, I still wish my d. had taken a gap year. She had so many things left to do (that had nothing to do with college admission), and one's youth is just so short to spend all of it in classrooms.</p>

174

<p>andi, It's so difficult to be both optimistic and pessimistic at the same time, but that what he needs to do in order to pursue the waitlist with vigor and to plan a year without college. If it comes to the latter option, then he'll have plenty of time (and you'll get plenty of advice) to craft a knockout application for a well balanced list of schools.</p>

<p>The psychological aspect right now seems like the most difficult to handle. I'm sure it will be heartbreaking for him to have to listen to his friends' success stories, but you know what, I'll bet he becomes a bit of a celebrity. He needs to establish a good party line like "my acceptances didn't come out the way I wanted so I'm going to do x instead." Starting to get your arms around what that X may be is essential to his well being. I wouldn't totally discount travel as part of the gap year, especially since you've mentioned that he has an aptitude for language. International experiences are valuable (both personally and as application enhancements).</p>

<p>A month's travel plus some music study plus some kind of internship sounds very positive. Going forward is exactly the right outlook!</p>

175

<p>I've noticed several times that you've mentioned the cost of travel being prohibitive, and I just want to suggest that you not make that assumption without checking out fares. We live on the West Coast and my son has booked a flight home from the East on Jet Blue for $85. Your son might go on his own to visit Oberlin, or another school he adds to his list.</p>

<p>This is not just putting a better face on things, but I'm with Mini in wishing my son had taken a gap year. I see him working his fanny off, stressing about choosing a major, having no clue what he wants to do and therefore trying to do EVERYTHING -- including the physics track for physics majors, the math track for math majors, the econ track for econ majors, heavy duty humanties classes, etc., while also doing lots of extra curricular music, trying to make some money, and have a social life. High achieving kids can get on a treadmill. It's all much more pressurized than in the way back when -- even the level of commitment required for extracurriculars like music and sports which used to be done for fun or just to "let off steam." So I hope, if you choose a waitlist campaign but it doesn't work out, that you can help your son at some point to view this as an opportunity that he might not have even considered otherwise -- a chance to take a breath, have some interesting experiences or adventures, figure out more about himself and what he wants to do, then to go off to a great school with a real advantage.</p>

<p>(As an addendum to Mini's comment on Yale, by the way, I have a cousin who is a pianist who was just crushed at Yale where they told him he would never perform. He switched to English. I will only say that he performs all over the world. This is not to bash Yale but merely to point out that an Ivy may or may not nurture a deep love of music, while an LAC might very well.)</p>

176

<p>Re Gap Year/health insurance coverage:
If a student is in good health, then inexpensive coverage can be purchased privately. Blue Shield/Blue Cross has a number of "Youth" and "Student" plans. The main thing is that you can take a gap year, but you don't want a "gap" in health coverage - because if a kid is injured or gets sick during a time without coverage, it will be very difficult to get future coverage. You can always go with a high deductible to save on the cost of a premium -- and if you are going with private insurance + high deductible, you might also want to look into an HSA (health savings account) plan. </p>

<p>I've had my kids covered for years with the individual youth plans rather than a family plan - it just that for our family of 3 (one parent, 2 kids), the combined premiums were always less than they would have been with a family plan. Since I was self-employed, I had to finance my own insurance in any event.</p>

177

<p>calmom, I agree the HSAs are excellent. </p>

<p>Depending on one's coverage, one's deductible, etc, they can work out to be cheaper than many peoples' current plans. Plus the premiums are paid with pre-tax dollars for more savings. Our insurance is good till 21 but we will probably go to a HSA after that.</p>

178

<p>Mini, are you serious that not needing aid makes things easier at schools that claim to be need blind? Can you explain?</p>

179

<p>From another thread under "College Admissions" about waitlists:</p>

<p>Swarthmore College </p>

<hr>

<p>Link to Common Data Set
<a href="http://www.swarthmore.edu/Admin/ins...search/cds.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.swarthmore.edu/Admin/ins...search/cds.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>2004
Number of qualified Applicants Placed on Wait List..........NA
Number Accepting a Place on the Wait List...................NA
Number of wait-listed Students Admitted......................50
Total Class Size.............................................. ........366
13.6% of Class comes from the wait list</p>

<p>2003
Number of qualified Applicants Placed on Wait List..........NA
Number Accepting a Place on the Wait List....................NA
Number of wait-listed Students Admitted.......................21
Total Class Size.............................................. ........368
5.7% of Class comes from the wait list</p>

180

<p>It is interesting to see the effect of multiple applications/multiple acceptances on waitlist activity. It seems like there was a large amount of "trickle down" effect last summer, which will probably be more so this summer. I.e., more students are applying and being accepted by more colleges but can only attend one.</p>