<p>I have a cousin who just graduated last week from St. Leo’s College in Florida. He did not do well in hs. I don’t know his exact stats - but a 2.8 gpa is probably not far off and I think his ACT was around a 20-21. He was denied at schools like Rollins and Indiana. St. Leo’s was pretty much the only school where he was accepted and of course, none of us had ever heard of it. But from what I can tell, he enjoyed his 4 years there and he did graduate on time. He is planning to return to Florida and take grad school classes at St. Leo’s while also working part-time. So, while I don’t know what the future holds for him in terms of the job market and so forth, I think he has done well so far and I hope that parents of kids in this range stay positive and know there are great places for their kids too.</p>
<p>Brooklynborndad, I am NOT talking about cases like your daughter. It appears to me that your D had a balanced list of reach, match, safety schools. </p>
<p>I was referring to the statement another member posted about what if a student only wants to attend schools that don’t take applicants with their stats. Students need reaches that are remotely within grasp, matches/ballpark schools, and safeties. They should not fixate on schools that don’t take kids with their stats. Thought should go into safeties, and not simply picking a school just because you know you can get in (some do that). You have to be willing to attend every school on your list, even though it is only natural to prefer other schools over your safeties. If you are unwilling to attend a school on your list, it should not be on the list. </p>
<p>Brooklynborndad, try to also imagine kids like my D2 who wanted to attend a BFA in Musical Theater program. The acceptance rates to ALL the programs are in the single digits!! Extremely tough odds!</p>
<p>rockvillemom, I agree that there are great schools out there for kids with low academic profiles. It takes a lot of care to find these gems. A student needs to be willing to examine schools where they have a better chance of being admitted and not focus all the energy on schools that are nearly impossible for them to get into, that’s all.</p>
<p>Just one thing - I don’t really see anything wrong with having a "selective college as a safety school, or offensive. Maybe it isn’t exactly something you want to share with anyone (not taking a knock on you, soozievt, I think you were fine - just in general conversation I know it’s awkward to bring it up when people go “so what are your safeties?”), but if you are a very good student, then I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect to get into a school where your stats are much higher, even though they are good, selective schools. If soozievt’s daughter was the kind of student that I think she probably is, then it definitely isn’t unreasonable for her to have schools like Conn College or Lehigh as safeties.</p>
<p>konabean - I don’t know if that is necessarily true for everyone, though. My 3.0 GPA/1500 SAT friend is going to a school that was a safety for her, but she’s really excited - she wanted to go there anyway.</p>
<p>In my line of work, I run into some people who are not realistic. I am VERY into reaching high. But I’m also into building realistic lists that are appropriate to each student and are WELL BALANCED. I also deal with students who are applying to highly selective audition based programs. Some are unrealistic in that regard (the acceptance rates range from 2-9% at these programs) and only want the brand name programs and are not competitive enough artistically to get into them.</p>
<p>Great story, rockvillemom.</p>
<p>The folks that find and participate on cc are, as we know, a self-selected group interested in and researching college options. The threads about the 3.0-3.3 and 3.3-3.6 GPA folks are very interesting and very helpful. Haven’t seen too many threads about the under 3.0 GPA folks, but there are lots of folks out there in this range, and of course 50% of graduating HS students (not necessarily college bound) are in that lower 50% of their class. As toldeo said, it is all relative. </p>
<p>IMO, when a student researches college options, they should try to find a reasonable range of choices. Unless they are truly prepared to take a gap year and want to apply to match/reaches alone, they should try (and it isnt always easy, as many have said) to find a school that is a better option (educationally and financially) than living in their parents basement for a year (jk, but you get what I mean). Around here, lots (probably the majority) of students choose instate schools. </p>
<p>There are thousands of colleges and universities out there. On cc, many focus predominantly on a very small subsection of those schools, and may feel that they are “settling” if they consider schools outside this group. </p>
<p>Has anyone played with the new “college search” option here on cc? Has it produced any schools that are good safeties that you hadn’t considered? Would love to hear people’s experience.</p>
<p>soozievt - Oh I agree completely - in fact - I would argue that the safety schools on one’s list need the most attention and the most research. People might be less inclined to visit their safety schools, for example, and I think that would be a mistake. I just offered up my cousin as an example of a kid who did not do well in hs, was accepted only at 1 safety school, and still had a happy college career.</p>
<p>reseezpiecesz…don’t worry…where we live, people don’t discuss that much where they are applying to college. The kind of discussion I am having here, didn’t really come up with my D and her peers in HS. Generally speaking, most of the colleges she applied to are not ones that others at her HS applied to. For example, she was the only student in her class to attend an Ivy, just to give you perspective. She is an achiever, I will admit. She got into numerous top grad schools in her field. I don’t think that those who know her would be surprised at what schools she’d consider safeties. But by the same token, she was VERY realistic and NEVER EVER counted on getting into the highly selective colleges or grad schools, even though she did have successful admissions results. She approached things very realistically and knew the odds were very tough even for qualified applicants like her. She put as much energy into selecting matches and safeties and demonstrating genuine interest in those schools. She did not fixate on ONE dream school. She had a group of favorites but could be content to attend any school on her list. I think every student, even if a low academic profile student, should have a realistic balanced list, and not fixate on their reaches, and find schools where they could be content to attend.</p>
<p>jym, I work with a number of students who have GPAs lower than 3.0, no Honors or AP classes, below 50%tile of class, and so on. There are indeed many colleges out there for such students. But some are not realistic. I had such a student who wanted Villanova and there was no way. This kid had an excellent admissions outcome in my view because he had a realistic list (not counting that he chose to add Villanova at the last minute), and got into some schools that were reachy for him, but within range. He didn’t attend his safeties. But his safeties were not his state U (his state U was reachy for him, and he even got in there!). Using superscore, he did have an 1100/1660 SAT which is not as low as some of my other students (some who have a CR/M in the 800’s or 900’s). But just as an example of his safeties…URI (not his state school) and St. Joseph’s. Both are very decent schools. He is going to Stonehill, a borderline reach/match.</p>
<p>Without breaching confidentiality of course, would it be possible to perhaps share what schools some of those students were accepted to? Yes, I realize there are many factors that go into the applications and acceptances, but in general, just as a reference point, that would be very interesting, and might provide some school names that one might not have thought about.</p>
<p>As an example, a friend’s s (with some learning/academic issues too) is at Flagler College in FL and loves it. He wasnt wild about the strict dorm rules, but made it through freshman year and now lives off campus.</p>
<p>I have some students with low academic profiles (much lower than the one I just mentioned) who applied to audition based programs…and a few of those ended up at Roosevelt.</p>
<p>There are a ton of schools for lower stat kids and I do have to get back to work, LOL. Read the threads on CC about this range and so many schools come up. But for example, …U of Hartford, Assumption, Endicott, Salve Regina, Le Moyne, Elmira, URI, Suffolk, Goucher, Merrimack, York College of PA, Manhattanville, Champlain College, St. Anselm, Colby Sawyer, Albright, DeSales, Alfred, Springfield, Wagner…and so many more.</p>
<p>Thanks, sooze. I should be working too!</p>
<p>Not sure if it is really relevant here, but I just find these profiles interesting. They do have something to do with evaluation of reaches, etc.</p>
<p>[Undergraduate</a> Admission - A Princeton Profile - 2008-09](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/pub/profile200809/admission/undergraduate-admission/]Undergraduate”>http://www.princeton.edu/pub/profile200809/admission/undergraduate-admission/)</p>
<p>25% of the applicants have SAT scores at or below mid 600 level. That’s thousands of student. I udnerstand that a person may excel in one section and do less well in another, but these kids really seem to be shooting for the stars.</p>
<p>Bovertine…well, at any college, including Princeton, some kids get in who fall in the lower 25% range of admitted stats. Simply, their odds are lower, but it is not out of reach. Also, a 1300 CR/M is not truly THAT low, for a highly selective college. It definitely means much lower odds to get in. However, elite colleges do not go by test scores alone and so you can’t evaluate the fact that some kids with a 1300 SAT or even a little lower got in, out of context. They could have had perfect GPAs, been val, been first generation, had some amazing achievements outside the classroom, been URM, been an athlete, been from North Dakota, and so on and so forth.</p>
<p>What I was talking about before is that you can go on USNews, and they will tell you for a particular school, the percentage admitted who had a CR score between 300-400, 400-500, 500-600, 600-700, 700-800, for example, and when I said “out of reach”, I meant if a kid, for example, has 480 on CR, and the college has accepted 0% with that score, then it is out of reach. Or if the college has accepted 1% of all applicants who have a score in that range, it is still very likely out of reach if you also fall in that range unless you have something significant in your profile to compensate (ie., recruited athlete). Another example of “out of reach” is if you fall below the top 50%tile in your HS class and you see that a college states that 100% of admitted students are in the top 50% of their HS class.</p>
<p>Interesting link, Bovertine-- especially the difference between the mid 50% scores of the applicants vs the admitted students, with a slight adjustment down for the scores of the enrolled students :</p>
<p>Test Applicants Admits Enrollees
Critical Reasoning 630–750 700–800 690–790
Mathematics 660–780 710–800 700–790
Writing 630–750 700–790 690–780
SAT II 660–770 720–790 700–780</p>
<p>can anyone get those scores to line up right?? Bottom line, only 25% of admitted students have scores below 700 (710 for math, 720 for SAT II)</p>
<p>
Technically, yes, they fall in the lower 25% of admitted stats. But assuming they have similar performance across all sections of the SAT their stats are at least 100 points lower than the bottom 25% admitted stats.</p>
<p>I don’t know the facts, obviously, but I would bet very few kids get into Princeton with a 1900 SAT. Certainly much less than the overall admit rate. I take it you are a counselor. How many amazing kids with these types of SATs have you encountered in your career that you would encourage to apply to Princeton and tell them they have a reasonable shot?</p>
<p>
We’re talking about several thousand applicants. That strains credulity for me, that there are several thousand vals or kids with amazing achievements with these low scores. I believe a lot of them are applying just for the heck of it. And nothing wrong with that.</p>
<p>I wonder if the wonderful financial aid opportunities at Princeton has anything to do with the “what the heck- I’ll apply even if my stats are in the lower 25%” thinking, especially if they have a hook of some kind.</p>