<p>I was wondering if anybody could compare these two, personality-wise. I realize that it's very big-school vs. small-school, but are there any other differences that should tip my decision? I'm a bio/spanish major, pre-med concentration; I enjoy dancing/the arts; and I'm big on partying and having fun (no drug/alcohol use, though. I'm very pro-substance-free living). </p>
<p>Which college should I choose?</p>
<p>i think that you'll have a much greater opportunity to do all those things (bio, spanish, dancing, art, FUN) at wes. from what i've heard, uchicago's workload is so intense that it precludes fun entirely. and while intro bio at wes is notoriously hard, it is definitely possible for you to have a life and be a science/fine art double major. i don't know that that's possible at uchicago. as far as substance use goes, wes has a sub-free hall that you can request to live in as a frosh, and also the well-being house which could be a good option for your sophomore/junior years. but if you do actually enjoy going out and partying while sober, then you might not want to request sub-free as a frosh. there are definitely people that go out to frat parties and such without drinking; you could be one of them. so yeah, come to wes.</p>
<p>For two schools that seem pretty different, you'd be surprised how many friends of mine here came down to these two schools for their final choice. I'm sure you've heard the reputations of each: U.Chicago = nerdy/geeky supercompetitive and intellectual, Wesleyan = intellectual crunchy hippies. Both are intellectual, surely.</p>
<p>I think that Wesleyan students definitely know how to have fun - even without drug and alcohol use. Every weekend has some awesome dance party that doesn't revolve around drinking (though some students may "pre-game"), and late-night movie-watching and excursions to diners and the like abound.</p>
<p>Wesleyan is a FANTASTIC place to go if you're well-rounded. Like, seriously. It's extremely easy to take dance/arts/spanish classes (or get involved in such extracurricular activities) in addition to being Bio and Pre-med. In fact, that's pretty much the norm. We have an excellent rate of getting into med schools; then, so does U. Chicago.</p>
<p>While there are different types of people at each school, I think what the overall atmosphere difference boils down to is high-strung vs. laidback. I don't mean high-strung in a bad way... just, extremely busy and not as relaxed, which can be a good thing, in some ways.</p>
<p>Also, basically everyone at Wesleyan stays on campus, so you have a very cohesive community atmosphere. The nightlife that exists is purely intra-campus, while U. Chicago is, well, in Chicago, giving a different sort of feel.</p>
<p>Either place, you'll find your crowd, and either place, you'll get a great education. So go where feels right!</p>
<p>(I'm a parent with relatives and friends and their children who have gone to both schools, including a daughter currently at Chicago.)</p>
<p>There are really huuuuge differences in the feel of the two schools, so it really depends on which qualities you value most, and whom you want to hang out with:</p>
<p>Wesleyan is very isolated. It's hard to get anywhere (other than Wesleyan) you might want to go without a car or a friend with a car. The best restaurant in Middletown is just awful. But that means the students at Wesleyan work much harder at entertaining themselves and each other than those at Chicago. Chicago is actually more isolated than it looks, since it is something of a haul to get from Hyde Park to popular places in the city, but $2 and 60 minutes will get you pretty much anywhere you want to go in a world-class city. Compared to Wesleyan, on-campus life is stunted. If you want your dorm to be a fun place, Chicago is not a safe choice. It's not completely true that Chicago is "where fun goes to die," but no one ever even thought to say that about Wesleyan.</p>
<p>Wesleyan = THE bastion of left PC thought. People take it seriously, and do it for the right reasons. Wesleyan sometimes seems to parody itself -- the last time I was there, it was Gay Arab-American Awareness Week, there were extensive, heartfelt debates about administration attempts to stop students from chalking graffiti on all the sidewalks, and there was also discussion about shifting a women's club team to a co-ed league because the existing league would bar (hypothetical) transgendered team members. I'm sure there are conservative students at Wesleyan, but I'm sure they feel very like an embattled minority. I'm not sure there are lots of conservative faculty there. Chicago = a broad spectrum. Like most universities, the faculty is generally left-of-center; unlike most elite universities, the most famous faculty are on the right (and, historically, on the far right). So the school attracts ambitious, articulate conservative students to a far greater extent than Wesleyan. </p>
<p>So, for example, at Wesleyan I would expect to find a lot of debate about the ethics and politics of resistance to the Iraq war, and analysis of the effect of imperialism and racism on U.S. policy there. At Chicago, you could still get a serious debate on whether the war was justified (to a large extent, the war is arguably Chicago's fault, since many of its most ardent supporters passed through the university and were followers of famous Chicago political philosopher Leo Strauss).</p>
<p>Chicago tends to attract socially awkward kids, too. So it's not always easy to get the party started. On the other hand, the percentage of substance-free kids at Chicago has to be many, many times that of Wesleyan. I think the culture at Wesleyan is such that if you're not in a sub-free setting, you have to be comfortable with being around a fair amount of substances and people using them. I don't think Chicago has substance-free dorms, but there are many dorms, or floors of them, where the weight of peer-pressure (with official backup) forces all but the most discreet substance use (or, for that matter, noise) somewhere else. Also, at Chicago the majority of kids live off-campus, usually their last two years, but often the last three -- convenient off-campus housing is plentiful and cheap -- so you wind up controlling your space more than at a dorm-centric school like Wesleyan.</p>
<p>Chicago just isn't a party-hearty place (although there are always pockets). Wesleyan (adjusting expectations for its high academic standards, etc.) is.</p>
<p>Chicago, I believe, has a much higher proportion of students interested in the sciences than Wesleyan does. At the grad level, Chicago is world-class in some scientific areas, especially physics; Wesleyan isn't. Of course, that means more personalized attention from faculty at Wesleyan, less cutthroat competition, and less peer stimulation.</p>
<p>One quick point I'd argue with: there are some GREAT ethnic restaurants in Middletown, on Main Street just a short walk from campus. Tuscany Grill and Amici are the Italian ones, Thai Gardens (which gives free iced tea to Wes students, mmm) and Typhoon are Thai, It's Only Natural has "vegetarian, vegan, and macrobiotic" food... and all are very decent. Now, Middletown may be lacking in most everything except restaurants and laser tag, but yummy food abounds.</p>
<p>A large proportion of my friends don't use substances - even alcohol. There's a reputation we have for being obsessed with pot, but other than on 4/20, it really isn't noticable at all, except an occasional whiff from someone's closed room down the hall a few nights a month. I was extremely worried about avoiding such substance use before I got to school, but it really hasn't been an issue. Alcohol is pretty everpresent on the weekends, though that's true at most schools, perhaps less so at Chicago.</p>
<p>Also, a huge proportion of Wesleyan students I know are interested in the sciences. Consider that there are about 200 students in the advanced version of Intro Bio, and there are about 730 students in the freshmen class. That said, I think the demographic of Wesleyan has been changing quite a bit in the past few years: more science students, less crazy political radicals. I think this has been an active attempt on the part of the administration and admissions. Upperclassmen mind these changes, while freshmen (obviously) don't notice anything different. Bennet's policy seems to be that students have a 4-year memory; after a class graduates, it takes its memories with them, and in this manner changing the student body is relatively easy.</p>
<p>I will echo madjoy and say that when we visited Wesleyan (which my D will be attending this fall), we ate at a quite decent Italian place; probably one of the ones madjoy mentions. </p>
<p>Also, you can get to NYC on the train in a couple of hours (though you'll need to get to the train station in Meriden, about seven miles away, first); obviously not a daily jaunt, but available for a special outing if you can squeeze in the time. (My D loves NY, so I expect she may well try to get there.)</p>
<p>Now, Williams, Grinnell, Kenyon; that's isolated.</p>
<p>I'd also agree with Mad on the restaurant thing... lots and lots of delicious restaurants. In addition to the ones she mentioned, there are great options for Mexixan (La Boca and Puerto Vallarta), Japanese (Mikado and another whose name escapes me), Pizza (Giuseppe's, Gianni's, Illiano's, several more), diners (O'Rourke's, which is nationally known, and Athenian, which is not)... Chinese (lots of places), well, you get the picture. Middletown is certainly not lacking in great restaurants. The best one I've been to so far is probably Typhoon, but that might change after an upcoming trip to Tuscany Grill. </p>
<p>And on the isolation thing... Middletown isn't. It's suburban Connecticut, and that just doesn't count in comparison to places like Williams or Colby, which really have nothing noteworthy around them. NYC and Boston are not hard to get to, and will be even easier with the addition of a new shuttle to the train/bus stations.</p>
<p>JHS, I've never heard anyone say that Yale was isolated...
I got to wes by a cab from the New Haven train station and it took me all of 20 minutes. That doesn't sound like too much considering that concerts are always going on in New Haven.
Besides there's always so much to do on Campus, why would you want to leave? Enough people have cars if you need to go somewhere.</p>
<p>I was at wes this past weekend and I went to a few parties, one was a rave and the other was just an all out dance and i did no drugs or alcohol at either of them and i had a blast. No one will pressure you to do any of the stuff that's availiable, the only pressure you'll feel is from yourself since kids at wes are so chill about what you believe that they won't even TRY to step on what you think.</p>
<p>As far as pre-med goes, i'm planning to go into medicine too and i want to be a neuroscience(and economics) major at wesleyan, but i'm going to try to take advantage of the tuition free 5th year and get my masters degree in neuroscience before heading to med/grad school. I think the environment at wes will be much more caring than the environment at chicago, since pre-meds are a cutthroat bunch and that just won't happen at wes. The academics at wes are tough and people have a lot of work to do, but they're really 'chill' about it and aren't hyper competitive.
I sent you a private message, so check that and get back to me. :-)
Good luck!</p>
<p>The way i said it to some of the kids at wesfest who were considering chicago and wesleyan as their top two was simply this. You know you can't go wrong with either school, since they're both top notch university's, but you have to figure out what you want in your school/college experience. Once you decide that, your choice will become apparent.
Contact me via PM if you want to talk, i'm always up for it :-)</p>
<p>My d is considering applying to Wes and UChicago next year. In fact, these are the two schools she is listing on her national merit form. I want to thank everyone for the extensive information provided - I know she'll find it very interesting. She is concerned that there will be "too many debate kids" at Wes - she's more on the quiet side and is currently in an English class full of students from the debate team, which makes it difficult for her to participate. Your descriptions will help paint a more realistic picture for her. We will be visiting both schools this summer - not the best time to experience the student culture but will give her a chance to see the campuses and learn a little more about each school. She's planning on studying geophysical sciences (UChicago) or Earth and Environmental Sciences (Wesleyan).</p>
<p>If she doesn't like debate kids, then neither of the schools are for her. I think it's hard to be the quiet one at either school as both of the schools are intellectually focused and a lot goes on in and out of class with the material.
I've seen kids getting drunk and smoking at wes while talking about marxist theory and literature, and the same applies for UChicago from what i've heard.
This is going to be the environment there, I mean sure you can find a smaller niche where you can make small talk, but your D needs to be aware that this is going to happen at these two cerebral institutions.</p>
<p>mumo7 -- I have a cousin who majored in Earth and Environmental Science at Wes about 10 years ago or so. She loved. it.</p>
<p>I actually don't have a single friend who is on the Wes debate team... and I can only think of one friend of mine who was definitely on debate in high school. So, no, the campus is not crawling with debate-team members or anything silly like that.</p>
<p>That said, many professors don't call on people who don't raise their hands (generally because the prof doesn't want to embarrass someone for not having done the reading or whatever)... so if your daughter is rather timid about participating in class, her discussion classes might very well be dominated by those who are more outspoken. However, I definitely have had profs tell a particularly obnoxious student to be quiet and give someone else a chance, so I guess you never know which it'll be.</p>
<p>Thanks for the comments.
ridethecliche - My d doesn't dislike the debate kids - she just finds it hard to participate in classes dominated by them. She loves intellectual discussion but is more comfortable in situations outside the classroom. I think that she will outgrow this in college - she has made great strides in this area over the past couple of years - so I'm not too worried about it. Which is also why I don't want her to make a decision about college based on something that I don't think will be a big issue. </p>
<p>WesDad - thanks for the info about your cousin. My daughter is really excited about majoring in the area. </p>
<p>jumble-j - I appreciate your comments. My d will be interested in what you have to say. She doesn't have a problem raising her hand in class to answer a question - she has trouble breaking into an ongoing discussion where people are speaking over top of each other. She'll be happy to hear your description of the classes. </p>
<p>Thanks again to everyone. We're looking forward to visiting campus in August.</p>
<p>Haha you led me astray!
She isn't shy, she's just polite!
You're right, she'll do awesome at either of the two school :-)</p>
<p>Yes, I imagine that Wesleyan definitely has a more vibrant social life - there is SO MUCH TO DO. Eeeek. </p>
<p>As far as substances... I was more of a sub-free person during high school and I am certainly not now. However, it does give me a good perspective on the issue... Many, if not most, of my friends do not smoke or drink, and still go out (and are really awesome to party with, btw ;p). It is very easy to be substance free at wesleyan, as long as you don't panic when other people partake. Nobody minds either way. </p>
<p>Interested in dance? Terp is an amaaazing student choreographed production... so so cool. You can actually see a video of Joe John's Baby Mama terp piece on youtube.com if you search wesleyan (a more light-hearted dance piece... some of the others in that show were INTENSE). The tix sell out ridiculously fast. We have awesome dance troupes; I have friends in a few of the hip-hop groups and go to every performance they have (usually at dance parties). Mabuhay was pretty amazing this year for dance pieces too. As for art, I'm in Drawing I and it's good times; luckily our prof has good taste in music because he gets to choose.</p>
<p>Biology... I couldn't stand the Intro class, but what can I say. The science kids tend to be pretty cool people. I'm psyched about the upper level classes... molecular biology next semester, yay!</p>
<p>I've also started to take spanish at wesleyan (after six years of french... what can I say), and I loooove my prof. She's amazing. And wes is very study-abroad friendly, so my obsession with studying in latin america (chile, probably) is very possible.</p>
<p>Yeah... I've just written an essay. I might as well add a conclusion. Wesleyan is beautiful right now, and despite the scary amount of work I have as the end approaches, I love it. It can be cold and sad oustide in February, but now the campus is amazing and vibrant; so many people out and about, having class, relaxing, jogging, practicing Prometheus (fire spinning), having bbqs... I've been discovering the most awesome secret spots at Wesleyan, and a senior friend told me the other day that she was trying to compile a list of places to find on campus (top of campus center, Butts tunnels, et cetera) and possible create a permanent treasure hunt, National Treasure style. I also made a mix CD today for our mysterious mixtape club... you create a mix cd which may or may not have a title or track names, complete awesome cover art and bring it to the mailbox in front of Chinese House, where you take one of the CDs that intrigues you and leave your own.</p>
<p>Alright. I need to go to sleep. Good lord.</p>
<p>My daughter visited both colleges. She is a bit of science/math nerd (she admits this) but loves to have fun too. She met some really nice kids while at Chicago but felt the atmosphere might be better for graduate school than undergrad. Wes had more of a vibrant music and arts scene (she plays an instrument and is really looking forward to trying a dance class at Wes) and felt friendlier. The campus at Wes was beautiful seemed easier to get around (although she liked the Hogwarts feel of Chicago). She was looking for a 'cozy' feel in a college, and although UChi is a terrific school, cozy it is not. It really depends on what you are looking for. One big thing to consider as well is that Chicago does have that core curriculum which, while nourishing your intellect, does eat up your electives. That was the final straw for her, as she thinks college should be more of a smorgasbord, and less a plated dish.</p>
<p>I second what mightymouse said. My daughter (after being sat on for a couple of days) just chose Wes over Chicago and we sent in her deposit today. Wes just seems like an extension of her personality, and if she doesn't have a great time I will be very surprised.</p>
<p>She is outgoing, outdoorsy, well-rounded, a debater and theater director/lighting designer, and is really friendly. Very sociable and gets along with lots of different sorts of people with no effort at all.</p>
<p>It was hard for us to see her give up Chicago, but it became quite clear that Wes was much better for her, even if it is less demanding academically. I don't know that it will be, but that is the urban legend emanating from I don't know where.</p>
<p>She is a little concerned about being stuck in an economically depressed small town, but the other qualities in Wes won out. I have promised to give her enough money for train tickets to Boston/NY on occasion.</p>
<p>It sounds as if Wes has so much going on, that I think your daughter will not be looking for things to do in Middletown. Having said that, I did get the impression that Wesleyan makes a real effort to involve Middletown residents in their programs, especially in the arts. That was another appealing aspect of Wes, that it seems to be trying hard to be 'of the town', not just 'in the town'.</p>
<p>There is what the Wesleyans call the "Wes bubble" but my daughter is looking forward to being a teacher's aide in the town at some point. Wes already has contributed a lot to the town, including helping to rehab and redesign the Middletown Inn. Still, anyone who has lingered in the bookstores around UChicago will not find Middletown, per se, satisfactory. You can't have everything, I guess. </p>
<p>Anyway, she is glad about attending Wesleyan.</p>
<p>Horrah! Another Wes '10er!
Welcome to the club :-)</p>