My dad spent a couple of years at BS back in the mid/late 50s. There was no formal college application process - the headmaster determined where students would go. Dad was being recruited by Yale (he was a great athlete) but the headmaster put the kibosh on it (came from a very modest background) telling him he was more of a XYZ boy.
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I donât mind them being capitalists. I do mind them being materialistic toads.
Interesting that you put it that way. The most recent studies getting all the attention and focus have approached their analysis pretty narrowly focused on career earnings. That is, by and large, the outcome that is being measured and compared. How âsuccessâ is being judged.
To me, this is tragic.
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Someone trying to compare something tends to want to use a proxy that is measurable and comparable. So no surprise that post graduation earnings are a common proxy. Given the cost of college, it is certainly relevant to many students, although it is often not the only thing that is relevant (less measurable results like social prestige of oneâs college name or continuing a family legacy are also relevant to many).
Another example where people seek the measurable and comparable proxies is the favoritism by many posters toward the SAT/ACT in college admission or measuring the capability of students at a college over other criteria.
I understand the rationale. I simply find it tragic. And also gross.
(And Iâll note for the record that I understand that other outcomes were also measuredâŠadmittance to prestigious grad schools, and employment at prestigious firms)
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And the cost of college is directly related to how much new construction, four-star dining, constant attention to lawn care and general appearance, mental health, deaning and other support is required to even be on the radar of many UMC families (in no particular order of importance.)
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To be fair it is a little bit of the chicken and the egg - are families demanding those amenities because they like the look of them or do they want them due to the outsized cost of the school? I have no answer to that but think it is a question worth asking.
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To confess my own biases, I tend to see something like grad school placement measures as much more palatable. But truthfully, the whole mindset that the main value-added of your college is determined by the size of your chance at a far tail outcome seems obviously poisonous to me. Like, if you know the vast majority of the grads at any of these schools are not going to end up in the far tails, then how can that be the main value-added of the college? I would say the main value-added of a college should be determined how the wide middle of a graduating class is doing.
The âproblemâ is it quickly becomes apparent that adjusting for self-selection and non-college-produced factors, âvalue-addedâ for most of the class at reasonably selective colleges is: (a) quite high; and (b) doesnât necessarily follow the traditional ârankingsâ in any obvious sense.
(a) is good news in that it remains true that going to a good college where you do reasonably well is very likely to improve your life options, at least if college in general is relevant to what you want to do.
But (b) means we canât use this method to produce generic rankings of US colleges.
Which I think is the actual answer, but some people want to keep reformulating the question until it becomes answerable. Including by looking for information in the far tails, even though that information necessarily ends up irrelevant to most graduates.
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I mean, how will Wesleyan ever attract enough students from Texas if they donât address those brown spots on the lawn that start to appear in June? Gross!!!
Apparently there are no brown or bare spots on the grass in the great state of Texas!
Sorry everyone - semi-inside joke.
Good question. I guess someone started competing against peers by getting better stuff, and the race was on from that point forward.
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I think there is nothing wrong with, say, expecting a decent quality of food if you are shelling out $90k per year. It doesnât have to be gourmet but it should be edible. If UMass (where S22 goes) can put good quality food out I donât know why schools that cost 3X as much canât manage something similar - if not in terms of variety, at least in quality.
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As is often the case, you say far more eloquently what I am attempting to convey (though admittedly sometimes I donât try all that hard 
) and also go on to make many more points which are absolutely on the mark.
This kind of study is problematic in so many ways itâs difficult to know where to begin. Regardless, I want so much more for my kids than simply an Nth %ile earnings outcome. Not to mention a great experience while theyâre actually at the place.
Hereâs a fun one: teachers. Yes, they may be partially captured by grad school placement, but, probably not so much. Yet, wouldnât most of us consider it good (or better!) news to have some/more T20 alumni teaching our children? Yet, their relatively measly earnings would be considered a âbadâ outcome by the study du jour.
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Completely agree. And for some kids, many in fact, the dining situation is not just a matter of being spoiled or finicky. One of the selling points at Wesleyan for one of my kids was that they take food issues quite seriously. So, a person with an allergy or Celiac or some other condition could rest easy knowing that the right procedures were followed in preparing the food they were going to eat. I donât care what anyone here tells you to the contrary, not everyone does that. Most say they do, but many donât; which is something we discovered quite clearly in our college journeys.
Where it does come into play, IMO, is on less basic things. For example, youâll frequently see people here write that a particular Wes dorm is ârun downâ. That dorm is absolutely not run down, and in fact quite the opposite. Itâs just that the dorm isnât of an architectural style that would fit in a bucolic English village. But itâs nonetheless perfectly well kept, and has been extensively updated and has everything you need, including rather large and comfortable rooms and common areas. I also hear a lot that the dorms at Brown are run-down. Havenât seen that either, but perhaps weâre made of tougher cloth than the average CC fam. 
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I would change that slightly to people wanting to reformulate the question until the answer they wanted from the outset is the answer the reformulation produces. But I think you were being nicer, which would follow from your username.
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Four years of your life! When you are usually relatively free of other responsibilities. Make it count, kids.
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Exactly. Another thing that makes me so sad: the rush that some kids are in to finish. Racking up AP credits, taking massive course loads, etc. so they can finish in 3 years. And yes obviously for some thatâs financially driven. Which makes it even worse.
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Few kids actually finish in less than four years. The problem on most campuses is the exact opposite: increasingly more of them spend more than four years in college, at a significant cost to themselves and the colleges.
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Of course, âa great experience while theyâre actually at the placeâ may be a luxury that is mainly available to those from upper middle to upper class families who are overrepresented on these forums. Many college students are financially limited to commuting to a local college, which is what some here seem to think as âhigh school 2.0â.
Finishing in 3 years does not seem to be that common. But some who rack up AP credits do use them to gain additional free elective space (by not having to take lower level courses that AP credits let them skip) while staying the full 4 years.
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Is it really true that âincreasingly moreâ students take extra time to graduate?
The CSU system in California (mostly moderately selective state universities with mostly local commuter students, probably a reasonable proxy for âmost campusesâ outside of the relatively small elite sphere) has shown an upward trend in 4 (and 5 and 6) year graduation rates over time.
https://public.dashboards.calstate.edu/public/csu-by-the-numbers/graduation-rates
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I just want to acknowledge that my previous comments were largely intended for those planning to attend a residential college.
But I also believe commuting colleges can be transformative, and for that matter the experience of attending a commuting college can be intrinsically valuable. But I do understand not all the same considerations would apply.
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