<p>Isn’t the actual purpose of standardized tests to use a common comparison between students from different high schools with different course and curriculum content and grading standards, due to local differences in high schools in the US?</p>
<p>Note that universities in some other countries do not require standardized tests for students in their domestic high schools, due to high schools in those countries conforming to national or a small number of provincial standards for course and curriculum content and grading standards. At the other extreme, there are countries where high school records are presumably so untrustworthy that standardized testing is the only thing that matters in university admissions.</p>
<p>There was a story about this on either NPR or Marketplace the other day, so you can definitely look it up and listen. I think the bottom line was that most other countries have less testing than the US, but in many countries, the stakes are much, much higher. And grades often mean little in other countries - the US is one of the few places that evaluates a student’s whole HS experience, from grades to tests to ECs to essays.</p>
<p>The history of standardized testing is complicated, but you are basically correct. I think it originates at Harvard in the 1910s as a way of improving academic standards, as Harvard then had a terrible reputation of being the province of wealthy gentlemen who were determined to be the “worst class ever” - I think FDRs class (1905?) won that title. The problem then arose that immigrant Jews started dominating the entrance exam in the 1920s, so they came up with “holistic” admissions (though that is a modern term) as a way of limiting too many of the “wrong” people gaining admission - and that’s when an emphasis on the scholar-athlete also developed as it gave an advantage to the boarding school set. The military’s development of standardized testing during WWII really fueled the fire and post-war, it became the standard for most schools.</p>
<p>A lot of this is covered in a very thick book, “The Chosen”, about the history of admissions at HYP, but I haven’t had time to read more than the first hundred pages or so. Need to get back to that.</p>
<p>This is 100% correct. The real question is (if or) why US News is so clueless about this. It is easy to correct for, on a practical level. E.g., if the 25-75 SAT range for a school is 1900 to 2200, and only 80% of students submit the SAT, just weight appropriately to partially correct for those non-test takers:</p>
<p>If anything, this probably overestimates the performance of those not submitting scores (which would almost certainly be well less than the 25th percentile), but it is better than using the 2050…</p>
<p>If a significant portion of “those non-test takers” are simply students who took the ACT and not the SAT, then that throws your calculations off. In any event, it’s not the selectivity portion of the ranking that affects Wesleyan the most. It’s track record there has been pretty good over the years, especially once you control (which USNews doesn’t do) for SES. </p>
An excellent point, although also very much correctable, assuming US News has information on the portions of test takers who took one, both, or neither of the tests.</p>
<p>But this actually raises another way in which schools can potentially game the system (and which I doubt US News addresses): If, for a given school, US News just measures the school based on either the SAT or ACT (whichever more students submit), then a school can gently suggest that students with weak scores submit only scores for the other test, which would therefore be ignored in calculating their test statistic.</p>
<p>Test optional colleges are largely second-tier schools trying to market their image as being much smarter and selective than they really are.</p>
<p>Case in point: Bates versus Wesleyan. If you look at Bates CDS § C9, it shows that 38% of enrolled students submitted SAT’s and 23% ACT’s. So there is no statistically significant test data on Bates. Yet, USNWR treats a minority, 38% of students, as a proxy for the entire entering class, which is a ridiculous assumption. Bates supposed 25th percentiles are CR 630, M 630, W 640. Wesleyan has 77% reporting SAT’s on the CDS - a clear majority, but with higher 25th percentile scores than Bates. It is doubtful that the true median SAT at Bates is even as high as 1900 total, because Bates has swept the bottom half of scores under the rug with a test optional admission policy. Plus, there’s a boost in application numbers from individuals at less competitive high schools with poor scores. This adds to the illusion of selectivity, so that parents are willing to foot the bill for a private school like Bates over a state university. What USNWR should do is use the median selectivity ranking of all LAC’s for schools like Bates which have no meaningful test data.</p>
<p>It still remains unclear why Wes decided to go test optional. Wesleyan’s problem in the USNWR formula is “faculty resources” and “financial resources” and not “selectivity” where it is ranked #7. The two resources factor rankings are unlikely to change with a switch to test optional. It would be nice to think that a school like Wes would try out test optional and then decide to switch back after determining that it was burdensome and inefficient. As far as domestic students are concerned, the test optional “movement” has set college admissions 80 years backwards in time. Wes has been successful at bringing in URM’s since the late 1960’s. It is unlikely there will be any boost in URM’s or Pell Grant recipients at Wes with this new policy.</p>
<p>Why haven’t they done this last when I applied? I had no choice-in November of 2013-but to send in my crummy SAT test scores (1400, whatever) to the university for a greater chance of me getting rejected (I have, as well as all the other reach schools I applied to).
A person is truly college ready when that person has enrolled in numerous AP courses (I will have taken a total of 11 by the times I graduate), and has done above average in most (Biology was the only AP class in which I received a “C” as a final average). </p>
<p>“A person is truly college ready when that person has enrolled in numerous AP courses…and has done above average in most”</p>
<p>Yes, but he must show scores of 4 or 5 on the actual AP exams to prove such. Some test flexible colleges allow three AP exams, or three SAT subjects, or SAT 1, or the ACT to meet testing requirements. </p>
<p>Only if the regular high school courses are so watered-down that they are insufficient preparation for college (unfortunately the case in many high schools in the US). And even the AP courses may not be high quality at some high schools (where the A students in AP courses typically get 1 scores on the AP tests).</p>
<p>The way it should be (and sometimes actually is) would be that regular high school course work is sufficient preparation for college frosh level course work, with AP courses or other similarly advanced options being available for the more advanced students who can handle that level of work, and may be able to get advanced placement in college courses when starting college.</p>
<p>Frank Bruni may have said it best in this morning’s Sunday Times:
<a href=“Opinion | Class, Cost and College - The New York Times”>Opinion | Class, Cost and College - The New York Times;
Wesleyan has experienced this sort of thing before, where they step out in front of the pack (their recruitment of inner-city youth, beginning in the sixties, comes to mind) while their peers (some, not all) scramble to see which one can now claim to be the most exclusive and elitist. I think they’re calling bull to all that. You can’t make a fetish out of standardized testing while also reaching out to working-class kids, as Bruni urges colleges like “Harvard, Columbia and Wesleyan” to do.</p>
<p>There are a lot of elements to HS grading that will not apply in college (notebook checks, making posters, etc.)
I’ve long been of the opinion that getting good grades in HS is often a function of how well you can angle yourself to what a teacher wants versus actual mastery of the subject material. While the SAT/ACT are more “raw tests of smarts.”</p>
<p>On other points raised, an “A” at one school vs. an “A” at another school. What is an A can vary greatly not only school to school, regardless of reputation, but also within schools and even among majors. There was a scandal in the 1990s where a memo circulating throughout Wharton indicated that professors “should be giving out 70% As”. Us in Penn Engineering were pretty well flummoxed. I took classes where NO ONE got an A at all. I took some classes where most of the class got a C or less.</p>
<p>But now that I teach college, I am subject to the grading norms of my department, not even that of my university. They are pretty common from what I understand: one-third As and Bs, one-third Cs, and one-third Ds and Fs. If the class is more than 20 students and the split is significantly different, I have to be prepared to defend my grading system. I have taught classes where no one failed, but no one got above a C either. I have taught classes where no one got lower than a C+ (especially classes with term projects that are a large percentage of the grade). Classes of 100 students or more tend to match that trend unless a particular class is poorly prepared. Example is students being allowed to take a freshman science course without an appropriate math background, that’s assumed but not always present.</p>
<p>Based on the state school I teach at, often colleges are letting in students who aren’t prepared for college. We regularly let in students who not only don’t have calculus in HS, but don’t have trigonometry either. Some have to take algebra in college, then pre-calc then calc. While other students take calculus junior and senior year of high school.</p>
<p>I do believe that how difficult your HS program is, compared to the hardest available in your HS, and your test scores should matter more than GPA. Also, although some schools do not give credit for a 3 on an AP exam, it still represents an average college grade, a C which is enough for most colleges to allow you to continue in that area. </p>
<p>Your grade distribution seemed rather harsh until you clarified where you teach. I can see that at a state school in intro classes, where you let a lot of people in and are weeding out the weaker students. By senior year, I certainly hope that isn’t the required distribution.</p>
<p>A 3 on an AP exam does not represent a C at any level - that is a common misconception. AP scores do not translate to grades.</p>