Wesleyan vs. Grinnell

College Search & Selection
1

Hi,

I was admitted to both schools. I didn’t apply for financial aid at either school, though Grinnell gave me a $20k per year merit scholarship. Finances aren’t really a factor. I am interested in the humanities and social sciences, including sociology, history, English, and political science. I am also potentially interested in film.
My main questions are:
Which school will have better connections, grad school placement, etc? Which school is stronger for the subjects I’m interested in? What are you opinions/experiences of these schools?
The money that Grinnell gave me is enticing, but it’s not really a huge factor. I am interested in doing research with professors. Overall, I like Wesleyan better for its culture, location, and academics. I will visit both of them in the upcoming weeks. I come from a competitive high school, so I am not looking for a cut-throat environment.

Wesleyan pros: I like the culture from what I’ve seen (eclectic, creative, independent), great programs, especially film and CSS, good grad school placement, good outcomes from what I’ve seen so far
Wesleyan cons: low endowment which might affect me since I’ll be full pay (not getting my money’s worth?)
Grinnell pros: lots of money which means money for funding, good grad school placement (at least for PhD productivity), smaller class sizes than Wesleyan (idk)
Grinnell cons: located in middle of nowhere, low yield rate (no one seems to want to go there), half the size of Wesleyan, doesn’t have that wow factor or culture

Thanks!

2

Two great choices. We have visited Grinnell probably 4-5 times, with two kids, and it is a wonderful school. As a parent, that $20,000 merit at Grinnell could make a lot of things easier, like taking the unpaid internship for the summer instead of working to contribute to costs, or having money to contribute to extra travel during a study abroad program.

Looking at the Common Data Set of the two schools, you can see some broad differences (and similarities). Wes is just under 3000 undergrads, Grinnell is almost 1700. Wes is about 54% white and Grinnell is about 51% white. Maybe my math is off, but last year’s common data set shows Wes yield about 36% and Grinnell about 27%, doesn’t seem like an enormous difference to me. Wes has many more classes which are larger than Grinnell does – Grinnell has 22 classes with between 30-39 students and 1 with between 40-40 students. Wes has 66 classes of 30-39, 22 classes in the 40s, and 15 in the 50s and 6 over 100, basically, over 100 classes which have more than 29 students in them. Are those classes you will be taking? Who knows, those are questions to ask during a visit. They both have open curriculum, though I’ve heard that for Wes students who want to do Honors, there are gen ed/distribution requirements and it is not really an open curriculum. Wes does have a very small greek life presence, Grinnell has none. Both are known for independent, quirky, activist student populations.

Of course, for film, being an hour or two from NYC would be a significant consideration, and Wes has a storied history of alums in the arts. But Grinnell’s humanities are very strong (my kid sat in on a creative writing class and was very impressed with the prof, a young, successful novelist who spent half an hour after class talking with my kid about Grinnell). The endowment does allow the college to fund things, from the facilities, to research opportunities (not just for STEM kids) etc. The President of Grinnell is a an African American gay man, married, with two kids. He is impressive and interesting. Grinnell may be in Iowa, but the students are eclectic, interesting and very smart, but not competitive with each other. Congrats on your acceptances.

3

I can’t tell you which one to choose, but I can echo everything @Midwestmomofboys said.

I would also quibble with the phrase “no one seems to want to go there.” Yes, the location can be a con for many. You can’t ignore the fact that it’s an hour’s drive (or shuttle ride) through cornfields from several not terribly memorable midwestern cities that mostly don’t have direct flights from the east coast. That’s a pain, and undoubtedly affects their yield. (Lots of people will choose driving distance from home over indirect flight from home, all other things being equal.) But the upside of that is that the kids who DO go, really want to be there. You’re in school with the kinds of kids who can see past the remote location and embrace the school’s wonderful resources and spirit. It’s a special place. Assuming it appeals to you in the first place.

So check what they offer, visit or revisit if you can, see what feels right to you. (And don’t ignore the significant cost savings for you … you may be very very glad you and/or your parents still have that money someday.)

Good luck!

4

Thank you @Midwestmomofboys and @porcupine98! Your replies were both super helpful. Do you know how Wesleyan’s (relatively low) endowment affects it?

5

Wesleyan and Grinnell’s RD yield is comparable (18-20%), so both schools are seen equally in terms of yield. Wesleyan’s overall yield is higher because Grinnell doesn’t take as many through ED. This shouldn’t be a con for Grinnell.

6

A college’s endowment size, mainly impinges on its ability to discount its tuition rate. To take one example, if tuition at College A is $50,000 and there are 100 members of the incoming class, the expected tuition income would be 5 million dollars. If everyone pays full freight the discount rate is 0%. But, if at College B, half the class receives a full ride, the result is only 2.5 million dollars in income, or a 50% discount rate. In order to make up the difference in expected income, College B has to either draw it from its endowment or raise it directly in the form of gifts from alumni and parents - or, some combination of the two.

There are all sorts of permutations to this, including the fact that some colleges (like Grinnell) give very generous merit scholarships whereas others (like Wesleyan) confine most of their discounting to need-based scholarships. But, the point is that each school’s tuition discount rate is going to be governed by how much they can finance it through other means. Wesleyan’s discount rate is ~36% and it would like to raise it to 39% by the year 2020 by growing its endowment.

According to this site, Grinnell’s discount rate is 48%:
http://www.grinnell.edu/about/offices-services/institutional-planning/resources

7

@nostalgicwisdom Thanks for that correction, I did not take into account ED rates, so interesting that taking those into account, it is very close.

@yellowwatermelon Regarding Wes’ endowment, I don’t have specific information how it might have affected campus. There has been a recent very successful capital campaign (a quick check shows close to $500 million) with much of it targeted for financial aid, faculty recruiting and training, and internships and experiential learning. Something else from the Common Data Set that could affect campus life – roughly 85% of Wes faculty have the terminal degree in their field which is lower than one would expect (it is 99% at Grinnell), and can mean that a school may use more than the typical number of adjunct (temporary, part time) faculty. Now, that can be a good thing, when the adjuncts are professionals in the arts etc. who come in and teach one course at a time and share their expertise with students. Bard College does that, and the students benefit from amazing artists, musicians and writers etc. Other times, it can mean that a school is using temporary faculty to fill gaps and has not committed to hiring permanent, full time faculty to fill specific needs, and that can affect student experience. I have no information about how Wes may use adjunct faculty, and perhaps other folks who know specifically can join in. But it may be a point of clarification as you are researching.

8

^Wesleyan has a huge arts faculty and many of them, though internationally respected singers, dancers and musicians - were without PhDs. This was always a bone of contention with USNews. Many of them have eventually earned doctorates from Wesleyan’s own highly respected Ethnomusicology program.

Well, that question can be turned around. According to this site, 29% of all Grinnell faculty are non-tenured track. I have no idea how they are used either:

http://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/grinnell-college/academic-life/faculty-composition/

9

@circuitrider @Midwestmomofboys Interesting to note, thank you both. I guess my main question is: Is Wesleyan at full tuition worth over Grinnell at $40k per year? Obviously I’ll have a more clear picture once I visit both schools and I have to make this decision on my own, but I’m just looking for some general opinions because I like to hear a range of opinions.

10

I can tell you, from my experience with LACs, that it almost never comes down to bloodless statistics. You have to stand in the middle of each campus and ask yourself, “Can I see myself here?” I did one overnight many, many years ago at one tippy-top LAC and the answer was “no.” I did the same on a weekend when the Wesleyan black students took over their main humanities building and my instant answer was, “YES!” YMMV.

11

@circuitrider – I’m not familiar with that college info site, but it says 11% are adjuncts or non-tenure track at Grinnell but also says that 27% are non tenure track. The Common Data Set does not break faculty positions down by tenured/tenure track. It is possible that Grinnell uses visiting faculty to preview potential hires (and vice versa), or that a robust sabbatical program means they are bringing in visiting faculty to fill needs for a semester or a year. I did a quick search to see if I could find some explanation, and did stumble across an article which talked about how Grinnell offers “senior status” to older faculty, in order to manage faculty retirements. Perhaps those become non-tenured positions, but that speculation on my part moves us well beyond the OP’s questions.

I am a big fan of Grinnell, as we have spent a lot of time there, and I think it deserves its growing reputation as an elite LAC which happens to be in Iowa instead of the east coast/west coast or, like Carleton, outside a major midwest city. For someone who feels they must be able to hop the train to NYC on the weekend, it is not a good match. But it is a wonderful school with very talented students and tremendous resources. I’m a fan of small town midwest life, as an east coast transplant, but it is not for everyone.

12

Is the difference “worth it”? Not in raw, quantifiable, terms. They’re both great options, and one is not inherently $80K better than the other. On each visit, talk to lots of different students, ask lots of questions, see as much as you can, don’t let a single bad host (if you should be so unlucky) color your opinion. I’m pretty sure one will feel distinctly more like your future home away from home than the other once you’re done. I can’t predict which one that will be, but go with an open mind, give some thought to what else could be done with that money, and brace for cornfields in the Midwest.

13

Thanks, @Midwestmomofboys for that clarification. As it turns out, the percentage of adjuncts are exactly the same for both colleges:

https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/wesleyan-university/academic-life/faculty-composition/

http://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/grinnell-college/academic-life/faculty-composition/

14

Both are wonderful choices. I don’t think you will lack for anything at Wesleyan, just because Grinnell’s endowment is larger; Wesleyan still has great resources. It is a very special place. You will get a good education at either college.

You are comparing two top flight schools… not a good school vs. a so-so school, but two amazing schools. Both will be well regarded by graduate schools and employers. To choose Wesleyan over Grinnell, with such a large merit scholarship, you would need to feel that Wesleyan is personally much preferable to you because of something about the school or because of geography/ distance from home. That’s a fine choice to make as long as your family has the financial means to pay for the more expensive school. I turned down a full four year scholarship many years ago for a college giving me no aid because I liked the other college better… but then again, my colleges were dramatically uneven in quality and reputation, unlike yours.

Do the visits. See if one is far preferable to the other. Congratulations on having such a great choice!

15

Thanks everyone!

16

We look forward to your report back!

17

Wesleyan has many links to the film industry, so if you want film that would be your best choice. If you are planning other majors then either one would be a great education

18

Congrats on having this excellent choice to make. When you visit, spend as much time as you can with other students. Your decision will be much easier after visiting because one will call to you more than the other as the better fit. That’s the school you should pick (although as a parent that is hard to say given the cost differential).

Regarding Grinnell’s remote location, I went there and view the location as a positive. If you are like me and most other people, you’ll live in large cities throughout your career years. Your undergraduate years may be your only chance to live in a non-urban environment where:

  • student life is focused on campus and on each other rather than on off-campus attractions and weekend trips
  • the staff is unstressed, friendly and laid back
  • the air is fresh
  • you can see the Milky Way on clear nights

If your whole life has been spent in a large metro area, living in a rural environment for four years can broaden your perspectives. A lot of my fellow students at Grinnell that came from metro areas fell in love with the small town vibe.

Let us know which you picked and why.

19

Latest update:

Cost is now a factor. My parents just told me that they can only afford $35-40k a year, unless they take out loans. That means they would be $120k in debt by the time I graduate, and eventually pass the loans onto me. I don’t think Wesleyan is worth that much debt, since I’m not going into something extremely lucrative like finance. I’m throwing UCSB CCS for Writing/Literature back into the picture now, which I didn’t mention previously. It’s a sort of honors college at UCSB, and its nickname is the “grad school for undergrads,” so you focus on your major. In a way, it replicates a LAC within a state school. I’ll receive priority registration, no GE’s, special housing, and a personal adviser, so UCSB will be much more manageable. The classes are a lot smaller too, around 15 people. I’ll detail my college visits below:

-Wesleyan: Honestly, it wasn’t quite what I expected. I noticed self-segregation on the campus–the minorities and whites kind of had their own groups. The people were friendly when I talked to them, but they weren’t super quirky smart or extra interesting like I had read about on College Confidential. I saw a lot of pretentious preppy and extra hipster people. My host was okay, but I didn’t connect with her that well. The food was really good! I loved one of the classes I sat in on, the other two were meh. I liked that it wasn’t rural to the point of insanity-inducing isolation. Also, there were tons of interesting events happening on campus. The campus was much prettier than I expected, and the size of the school was perfect.
-Grinnell: The campus was beautiful, but it was just too small. I saw so many of the same people, despite only being there for a day. I would go nuts if I stayed there for four years. The classes I sat in on were both meh, despite being very small. In one of them, the participation was very bad. I expected more for a rigorous liberal arts college. I could tell that their endowment was really put into good use–everything was immaculate and the architecture was great. The food here was pretty bad, at least compared to Wesleyan’s, but better than UCSB’s. I noticed a lot of self-segregation by whites/minorities here too. My host and her friends were awesome, and I bonded with them a lot. Overall, it was too cold (I’m from California) and too small. I would totally go to this school if it had more people or were in a less rural area.
-UCSB: I almost dreaded visiting this school. The food was bad, and the architecture was plain and hideous, but thankfully they had the beach to make up for it. I loved that everyone was skateboarding/biking on campus. There are annoying people on campus, but because it’s so big, there’s plenty of people to look for for friends. Also, I’ll be able to use the money I’ve saved to eat off-campus and go on fun excursions! The classes I sat in on weren’t that great, but it’s just two out of many, many classes at UCSB. I already mentioned the perks of UCSB CCS above, and it looks like a great way to override a lot of the problems that UC schools have. Also, two of my favorite professors at Wesleyan actually attended UCSB and UCI, so it looks like the UC system does work! It’s really about what effort you choose to put in.

At this point, I’m pretty sure that I’m going to be attending UCSB CCS. I would attend Wesleyan if not for the cost. If you have any advice or would like to sway me to drop $120k in loans on Wesleyan, feel free to say it!

20

IMO, UCSB CCS is a hidden gem.

Also, taking on $120K in debt is insane. Especially with your interests.