West Coast MT Schools

<p>Wow!! Where was this when my son was deciding on schools? This is exactly the kind of comparison we needed. Of course there are many other factors to consider when choosing, but this is a terrific beginning. Are you sure voice lessons aren't included at UCLA for sophomore, junior, and senior years? I recall asking specifically about this and that was my understanding....three years at UCI also.</p>

<p>UCI has them AVAILABLE once you are accepted in the program, but if their program is anything like the many other M.T. with in-house voice lessons, the students who NEED the lessons are prioritized. Therefore, if they have their one semester of required work done, and others are waiting (remember, with the UCI Honors program there is no enrollment cap that is mentioned), they won't get school-paid private lessons.</p>

<p>UCLA has no mention of private voice in their curriculum online whatsoever. Lessons may be available, but again, if not required in the major then the school is likely not going to have the faculty and the money to offer this.</p>

<p>You can always call and ask them point blank, if you are really interested in their school. Something along the lines of, "how many quarters of private voice lessons does the school require, and how many are guaranteed to me if I am accepted (and interested in further study)," for example.</p>

<p>To Prof. Himmelheber: I guess my direct inquiry to you regarding school comparisons really hit the mark with the other members of this thread. Thanks again for your insight and for sharing this with other members.</p>

<p>For the students from CA looking for West Coast schools...you might check out the Arizona campuses. ASU has a BM MT with an emphasis on voice and UA has a BFA MT with more of an emphasis on acting.</p>

<p>Hi All! I have been reading these threads for over 2 years, but this is my first (and probably only) post! I want to give this thread something back, so here goes. We live in California, and my daughter will be attending UCLA this fall in the Theater Department with an emphasis in Musical Theater (yes, there really is such a thing, though fairly new!). I can empathize with kids and their parents looking for good MT programs, and wanting to stay in California, if possible, and finding a school that is affordable. I will share my impressions, and ask forgivness if I offend anyone who has chosen one of the schools that I mention not too positively. I know the right fit for a school is a very individual thing. Also, double check some of my facts if you are interested, because I was the tag-along mom, and it was my daughter who paid the most attention to details. If I got something wrong, I am sorry. Be that as it may, here are my musings and impressions. My daughter looked east coast, mid-west, and Calif. (Cal State Fullerton, UC Irvine, USC, and UCLA to name the west coast schools). She got into most of her choices. This forum is excellent for east coast and even mid-west schools, but I always found West Coast info. lacking. Let me tell you what we know about UCLA MT:</p>

<p>First of all, UCLA is a beautiful campus in Westwood (upscale neighborhood in LA), with dorms on campus, and an excellent food plan. Walking around the neighborhood at 11 pm at night, I saw in 1 hour 3 (seemingly harmless) homeless folks, and 3 police cars. Single women did not seem nervous to be walking around at night alone. The MT program accepts 14 MT students, expecting 10 to attend. Each year I believe there are about 40 Theater majors accepted (this includes directing, acting, ect.) per year. There were hundreds of applicants for MT, and only two auditions (2 weekends?) for students who were interested in MT (held in LA and Chicago!). In the audition she sang 2 contrasting songs,was taught a difficult/fast dance combination, and did 2 contrasting monologues. She was also interviewed by a professor in the theater department. The degree is a BA, but they describe it as a theater degree with an emphasis in MT. They also said " the program is so demanding that we consider it a BA program with a BFA program inside it". I am told by everyone I know that UCLA is a very academically demanding program, and very hard to get into. My daughter's GPA was 3.9, and the average admitted student's GPA is 4.2. I believe her audition helped her get in, because while in the low end of the ball park scholastically, if she did not apply to theater, she probably would not have been considered. They do not recomend double majors because the program is very demanding. You do not get voice lessons the first year in MT (a senior told me it was due to budget cuts), but if you continue in MT, you get private voice lessons from Soph year on as part of your course work. The senior we spoke with suggested paying for voice lessons the first year, so that when you audition the end of the second year, your skills are still up. He also suggested joining the choir to keep up your singing skills, and to meet other performers. First year students are encouraged to get involved in several of the opportunities for student productions, student films, and other projects. There are many opportunities to "work on your reel" which I am told is like a DVD version of an acting resume that you can shop around to places for jobs. Juniors and Seniors are cast in the larger productions put on by the school (the school feels they upper classmen are most ready). There are aparently many opportunities to meet with guest actors, directors, etc, and the school is very connected to the performing arts industry being close to Hollywood. UCLA is a much respected school in the LA area, and many alums come back to teack or do master classes. Students are encouraged to consider developing musical theater, television, and film acting skills there, though your degree will be in theater. My daughter was accepted as a MT student, and she will have to again audition in the end of her Soph year in order to continue in MT. If for some unlikely reason she did not pass this audition, she would remain a theater student, but would not be considered an MT student. I believe some classes would not be available to her (in MT), should she become a straight theater major. You are required to take dance every year, which includes Ballet, jazz, tap and modern (I am not sure how much of each, but Ballet seemed to be emphasized the most).
For what its worth, let me share with you my impressions of the other schools in Calif. that we visited:</p>

<p>CSUF- Very welcoming students met my daughter at the door as she observed their class doing scenes from various MT shows. The halls seemed teeming with excitement and energy, as you could hear someone belting "Suddenly Seymore" from "Little Shop", the next door we heard bongos while someone was working out a dance solo, and the next door 50 kids in a tap class! One thing that I found discouraging about the tap class- I'd say that practicly 2/3rds of the kids were taking this class in either tennis shoes, or stocking feet! I do not know how one can possibly know tap without wearing the tap shoes to see if they are making the correct sounds! Isn't tap shoes considered standard equipment for a tap class??? Later that night we sat through the Spring Dance Show, and again I was disappointed because you could tell that with a few exceptions, the dancers did not seem to have enough control to sustain and execute the dance movements (you know when a dancer has to move to the next step because if they don't they will fall?...) I know that these are students, and they are still learning their skills. Maybe I am too critical here, but I guess I expected better. Also, the dances did not seem to have much variety to the style of dance- looked like mostly modern. We were looking for more variety. We met with the head of the theater department, and he indicated that students must auditon for the musical theater program by the end of Soph year, and that they take about 10 students. Those 10 are treated extremly well, and many get side gigs. The rest are theater majors for the remainder of their time. He also thought it was the only/best MT BFA program on the west coast. I don't know, but this part did not sound right to me. The other thing that sticks out is that they have very limited dorms on campus (6 students share apt style housing, hard to get in to), and no formal food plan, though some of the campus vendors and places off campus will acknowledge some kind of affiliation with the school. It is a commuter school, and having a car seemed necessairy to us. It is a state school, and in Calif. the budget has cut some of the nicities out, like landscaping. I remember mounds of dusty dirt where in better times, they probably would have landscaped it. My daughter considered this school early on as a "deep back-up". State schools are a bargin fiscally.
USC- Beautiful campus in the middle of a very depressed area of LA- I would worry about my daughter being alone after dark, and having to go several blocks to her dorms. The campus clearly has lots of money, for sports anyway, and one is impressed by the elaborate sports complex. The theater department however, which aparently does not have a MT emphasis per se, is a small, dark bungalo in the back of construction, in back of the large sports complex. This made me think that the theater department is not as well funded as I would have hoped. My daughter sat in on a drama class, felt it was very basis- basic like her first year drama class in high school. The instructor was nice, and engaged her in conversations in between giving feedback to students who were working on scenes. If you are interested in singing, I believe you have to make contact with the music department, so there did not seem to be an integrated program for MT. My daughter was not terribly impressed by what she saw, but she auditioned anyway. They did not have her sing, or dance- just two monologues. She knew this was not the school for her even before the acceptance letters were sent out.</p>

<p>UCI- Pretty campus, smaller than UCLA, and appeared more suburban. Dorms were on campus. My daughter sat in on a MT class, the instructor was excellent, and was giving the students good tips on auditioning skills. No auditions were necessary, and I cannot tell you much about the program, except to say that my daughter was accepted, but did not seriously consider this school. </p>

<p>Other California Schools that various folks out here mentioned that had fairly good reputations for theater programs, but we did not check out: Chapman, and Loyola Merrimount(sp?).
Hope these musings help generate more folks talking about California Schools. Sorry for a long post! Best of Luck to you all!</p>

<p>I don't usually write in defense of my previous posts (either one accepts my opinions or not), but I feel compelled to defend CSU Fullerton in this case.</p>

<p>I am sure that the tap class you attended was a general education class, one that exposes the general college student to a variety of dance styles, and NOT a majors' class. The reason being? Our tap classes are large, but certainly not 50 students! Also, my colleague who teaches the majors' tap class is truly a STICKLER when it comes to being prepared, including timely attendance, and being dressed properly for the activity. Not having your tap shoes equates to an immediate absence, as you are not permitted to participate in that class (though you may stay in the room and observe, if you wish to stay on top of the new moves and combinations). The only possible exception would be if the floor were newly waxed, and students were instructed to tap in tennis shoes for safety reasons (slips are very likely on slick floors in taps, as you can imagine) - but this hasn't occurred since I have been here.</p>

<p>On the Dance Concert, yes - these are students, and primarily our DANCE BA students. Musical Theatre majors are in the main stage musical or drama/comedy productions, and will not (or sooooo very rarely, as with a 5th year senior who is asked to dance in a piece) be seen in a dance concert. The dance concerts here ARE primarily focused on modern, as are the majority of the programs in the nation. It is a major trend in dance education (easier on old, tired dancer bodies, believe me - this is a bonus for aging teachers, too), and this is the predominantly represented genre at dance festivals such as the Kennedy Center American College Dance Festival. However, our THEATRE dance students (BFA and BDA wannabees) don't take modern in their curriculum (because they will so rarely use it professionally): just tap, ballet, jazz, and musical theatre dance.</p>

<p>As to the state school not having enough money for landscaping?!? We are opening a brand new arts complex (we start moving in this fall semester, and have our official "gala" opening in January 2006) - doubling the size of our existing teaching facilities, rehearsal and performance spaces, shops, storage and offices. THIS AREA IS STILL CONSIDERED A CONSTRUCTION ZONE. Hence, the dirt mounds. (I can't understand how one could mistake state-of-the-art construction for neglect.) As we speak, there is re-landscaping work happening at the north end of the building (where there already was existing foliage: trees and bushes and grass), and at the main entrance to the new annex (that will greet visitors parking in our new parking garage). The new building plans have always included for "re-architecture of the landscaping," one of the final phases in the construction process. To view the current conditions of the building (and the complex itself, if you are interested) you can visit: <a href="http://www.fullerton.edu/campuscams/PerfArts.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.fullerton.edu/campuscams/PerfArts.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Also, while online, check out our new Student Health Center addition, Student Recreation Center (construction just begun - open fall 2008), the newest parking garage (just begun and due for completion by July 2006), and the recently completed kinesiology and health science (gym). <a href="http://d-c.fullerton.edu/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://d-c.fullerton.edu/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I'll cover the housing and meal plans in a second post</p>

<p>The dorm space are limited, true. But most of our students who are not freshmen (because they now KNOW other students well enough to choose them as roommates) opt for the plethora of local apartments. Within 2 miles, I can count at LEAST 25 apartment complexes, and countless "private home rentals," "garage loft apartments," "roommates to share" homes and apartments, and separate "mother-in-law homes" (on the back part of a property) to rent. Also, remember that dorms REQUIRE that you move out at the end of the semester, meaning your son or daughter will be madly packing and cleaning when they should be STUDYING FOR FINALS!, and they MUST be out by the specified date, no options. Whereas private housing, such as off-campus rentals, don't put people out on the street even when they desire to stay on through the non-school month(s) - the student has the choice as to the time/place for all moves.</p>

<p>As to a meal plan, true - there is none available (though the food services is working on developing one, per their meeting minutes). However, each dorm apartment has a kitchen that is equipped with a stove, refrigerator, microwave and dishwasher, so students may prepare their own food. There is a large supermarket about 3/4 mile away from campus, and a Dollar Store, Big Lots, Savon and Target, all within 3/4 mile, too (so students can get pretty much anything they need in the way of sustenance).</p>

<p>And if students don't want to/know how to/have time to cook, there is a food court in the Student Union, with salads, soups, burgers, mexican food, chinese food, donuts, muffins, scones, coffee, and juice bar available. Also in the Student Union is a pizza parlor (next to the pub and bowling alley), a nice italian cafeteria-style restaurant, and a movie theatre. Pretty nice complex, the Student Union. There are also a Healthy Choice (in Langsdorf Hall), two Starbucks, one (family owned) coffee vendor, various food carts, and a Carl's Jr. on the East side of the campus.</p>

<p>Then, within one mile, there are sandwich shops, a dozen fast food restaurants, Coco's, Sizzler, a pub, thai, chinese, and japanese food, korean bbq restaurants, and too many others to name here. Within two miles are a FABULOUS rib place (Texas Lucy's), a Red Lobster, a Bobby McGees, a microbrewery, Islands, and the Brea mall - which includes a food court. And within three miles there is the ritzy downtown Brea - a little pricey for my kid, but some students with more affluence LOVE to shop and dine there. Suffice it to say, CSUF students aren't at a lack for food sources.</p>

<p>And the expense of the food as opposed to a meal plan? Well, for one, the money my son is saving on tuition here (as opposed to UCI, UCLA or USC) is well spent on mocha lattes, healthy salads, meals and junk-food snacks.</p>

<p>And a reminder that the meal plans at most schools OFTEN do not include weekend meals (the most I have found is 19 meals per week, and that means only brunch and dinner, or breafast and lunch, on the weekends), and menus are offered during specific hours (meaning a late riser will miss breakfast, and a late afternoon/early evening class means no dinner before rehearsal). Most plans offer 14 meals per week - three meals a day (during only M-Th), and two meals on Friday, and nothing on the weekends.</p>

<p>At USC (2003-04 prices listed - not updated on their webpage!), most dorms, including ALL freshman residence halls and apartments, have REQUIRED meal plans (meaning, you HAVE to buy it, whether you want/need it or not!). If you don't select a meal plan when required, a default plan specified on your contract will be assigned and charged (so no way out of this one). For residents, the cheapest is The Cardinal Plan - $1941.00/school year, not summer months (and this plan is available to only selected residence halls)! This plan has TIME RESTRICTIONS (meaning, you get meals only during certain hours, but they don't publicize this well) and a WEEKLY RESET (meaning, if you don't use it you lose it at the end of the week). For your $1941/year, you get only 10 meals per week in either EVK or Parkside Restaurant (the latter serves only breakfast and lunch), $510 Dining Dollars that may be used in anytime in EVK, Parkside Restaurant and most retail dining venues (but if not used by end of year, they expire-no refunds), and one guest meal per month. You can "upgrade," exchanging your $510 Dining Dollars for an extra 10 meals a week (for 20 meals a week), but can be used only at EVK and Parkside Restaurant. If you are in the Parkside Suites Hall, the plan just mentioned will cost you $2067.00/year - the same meal plan offered, but more money (why is that?!?)... And if you want to upgrade (that is, if you don't live in two specific dorms), for only $2492/year, you can eat wherever you want, whenever you want. And the FRESHMAN PLAN is a discounted, declining balance, plan that resets at the end of each semester - $345 (not specified whether by the year, semester, or month, but I believe it is by the year - like a credit card purchased in advance for discounted meals; you'll have to follow up on this by calling Residence Life at USC, as I'm not sure and the website is very hazy on this plan). Their website estimates that undergraduates living on campus or off-campus in an apt. (not with parents/relatives) will pay $11,008/year for room and board for two semesters in 2005-2006.</p>

<p>Then, at UCI, room and board (for either dorms or on-campus apts.) is estimated to be $8,768/year (not counting summers). I would give you more specifics on required residence, costs, etc., but I can’t get through to their housing website right now: <a href="http://www.housing.uci.edu/index.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.housing.uci.edu/index.asp&lt;/a>. Approximately 30% of their students live on-campus (qualifying them as a commuter campus). Each residence hall has a small kitchen shared among ALL the hall residents, but no private kitchens in rooms (for health or dietary conscious kids, or those who just want a little midnight snack). Students who live in the residence halls participate in REQUIRED meal plans (like USC, you are required to participate in a meal plan, whether you want to or not). Meals are served cafeteria-style three times daily on weekdays (brunch and dinner on weekends). The halls close during the winter recess, and although they remain open during the Thanksgiving holiday and the spring recess, no meals are served. RATES: All rates are per school year (late September through mid-June). Meal plan rates: 19/week = 2,148/school year; 14/week = 2,160/school year; and 10/week = 1,920/school year. Students can also purchase an addition 50 meals per semester for $290; these meals will roll-over to the next semester, but expire in summer months (so they won’t carry over to next school year). Housing rates for the 2004-05 academic year were $9,772-$10,021 for a single room, $8,512-$8,764 for a double room, and $7,441-$7,693 for a triple room. (Rates vary by the meal plan selected.) Charges are paid in quarterly payments. RATES FOR 2005-06 WILL BE INCREASED. Finally, the apartments on campus are reserved for only graduate students, or undergraduates who are married and/or have children. There are privately owned apartments available on campus, from $575 to $905/month, based on how many share the room: <a href="http://www.vistadelcampo.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.vistadelcampo.com&lt;/a>. </p>

<p>At UCLA, room and board are a package deal, so again, no option of severing meals from on-campus housing. Housing rates have quite a range, depending on how many students share one room (either two or three in all but the most expensive, which is a five-room suite, each room housing only one person). Likewise, he meal plan choices range from 11/per, their most basic plan, for students not on campus during weekends and for those who eat only two meals a day (meals don’t carry over to the next week); and up to 19/week, their most flexible plan, allowing for any missed meals during the week to be accumulated and used at any time during the quarter for additional meals or to treat family and friends to a meal (however, the accumulation starts over with each quarter). The package price ranges from $8,719/school year (3 in a room, and 11 meals/week plan) to $14,049/school year (private room in 5 room suite, and 19 meals/week plan).</p>

<p>At CSUF, our residence prices our certainly comparable (perhaps even less the other local three in comparison): for the 2004-2005 academic year (likely increased this year) are $4,356 double occupancy and $5,813 single occupancy. Note: NO TRIPLE OR QUADRUPLE occupancy here. Fees do include a bed in a furnished, air-conditioned suite (includes a private kitchen); gas, electricity, water and Internet access.</p>

<p>Transportation to follow...</p>

<p>As for having to have a car at CSUF, that simply isn't true. Case in point: two of our current BFA students do not have cars. Both work, go out with friends and get to school without problem (and neither has a BIKE, either; they walk for the exercise!). Personally, my son rides his bike to campus in 10 minutes (less time than it takes me to drive and park!), or walks the 1.5 miles in less than half an hour. </p>

<p>Also, many of our students ride their bikes, as the weather is rarely inclement enough to preclude this (except the rainy months in the spring). In the event the distance or weather does not permit biking, the bus system into the school is excellent (providing transportation in from all over the county), and the school subsidizes monthly bus passes (free, last I heard!). Also, there is a special bus line that runs in from the Fullerton Amtrack (train) station, so that students who live farther away (Riverside, Corona, Santa Ana, Capistrano, and beyond) can train in, and take a free shuttle bus to school. And Amtrack offers student discounts on monthly train passes, too.</p>

<p>At USC, they estimate undergraduate transportation costs to be $1362/year. Why is that, if they needn't have a car because they live on campus? Same thing at UCI - $1,193/year for transportation if living on campus. And UCLA estimates $729/school year (whereas a commuter expense here is estimated at $1,776). Very likely this fee estimate for those living in campus is for the expense students must incur hauling their stuff into and out of the campus twice per year (to vacate at the end of each semester/quarter).</p>

<p>And in LA, unlike in NYC, people need a car to get to casting directors' and agents' offices, and auditions and callbacks - plain and simple fact, widely accepted as gospel among the professional community here.</p>

<p>Whew! Hope I've covered it all...I get carried away, but feel passionately about knowledge and resources being shared (as we all do, or we wouldn't be here).</p>

<p>In a word, no. Neither has a musical theatre program (though both have fine drama depts., and Chapman has a great film dept., too).</p>

<p>Sorry, but these aren't what the musical theatre student is likely looking for.</p>

<p>I think I've posted in the past about my son's dorm room at Cal State Fullerton. By getting him on the list early for a dorm room, he got into the brand new apartment-style dorm rooms as a new freshman. This "dorm room" had four boys sharing an apartment complete with kitchen, living room, 2 bathrooms, and -- oops -- I can't remember how many bedrooms, except that even with four boys, my son had his own tiny bedroom. Security and monitoring was good and the students were friendly. The apartment's kitchen allowed them to stock up on what they like to eat and drink (for example, lots of bottled water) and to eat more healthily if they so desired. I agree that Fullerton is mostly a commuter campus, but as Professor Himmelheber said, the campus is surrounded by many many apartment complexes. The apartment-style dorm prepared my son for living in his own apartment after freshman year. </p>

<p>My son is not an MT major, but if anyone has specific questions about his experience living at Fullerton, feel free to PM me.</p>

<p>KKmom</p>

<p>Thank you for all your input. UCLA is also one of the schools my d is considering. If you don't mind sharing, did she take the SAT II writing & math? Also,how did she do on her SAT I? My d has very good gpa but unfortunately did not do well on her SATs. She is retaking in October but I don't think she could improve as much as needed. Also, she took SAT II but in am. history and chem. I don't know if the theater department requires SATII to be considered.</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

<p>Lexismom,
My Daughter is not a great test taker, either (too slow, too obcessive!). Her SAT I was 1200 ( 560 Math, 640 Verbal), and SAT II Lit 600, Math 500, writing 570. Go figure, it was okay enough (thank God!).</p>

<p>I know a mom whose daughter just finished her second year at CSUF. We have know each other for years because of our kids. Most of our conversations are now at the local grocery store, used to be at our kids activities. The daughter made the cut (is that what it's called) and is in the MT program :). I started jumping at the market when the mom told me. I know the girl wanted to stay in CA and I think the only other school she applied to was UCLA. I know she worked hard and her mom said she was prepared if her luck/hard work didn't go the way she wanted. I must add that the lower costs at CSUF allowed someone we know to buy a condo for their two kids just a block away from the school. The kids have 2 roomates, but the parents figured that it was better to buy a condo than pay dorm rent for two.</p>

<p>I visited the school with a negative attitude when son was looking for colleges. I had worked with several Fullerton students at Disneyland in my college years but never really visited the place. I changed my mind quickly. I was impressed with the school and the plans for the new performing arts center. We talked with several faculty, the honors program seemed outstanding. There are lots of places for students to find jobs, lots of things to do. My son didn't like the school--probably did not want to attend college so close to his birthplace.</p>

<p>Prof. Himmelherber: I understand you don't have do audition for Cal State Fullerton, do you just fill out the application or is there any particular additional procedure?</p>

<p>thanks</p>

<p>The application to the school and the freshman level of the dept. is simple - fill out only the ONE application (the university application, available on line). If the university accepts you, and you declare theatre as your major, you're in the department (not yet the BFA program, which I'll explain next)!</p>

<p>The audition into the BFA program happens at the end of the sophomore year (for two reasons). First, we are a public/land grant institute, meaning we must be accessible to a vast majority of students desiring and qualifying for an education here, including TRANSFER STUDENTS who can't be "held back a year" because they opted to take two years at a J.C. We could opt to use a system like other schools, for example the University of Arizona, one that takes a student in at EITHER the freshman or sophomore level, but can release them from the BFA program at the end of either their first or second year of study (when many of the classes taken may not satisfy the general theatre studies degree requirements). This also forces the UofA to not accept students at any level higher than a sophomore - so transfer students automatically come in as either a freshman or a sophomore in the department, depending on where the department places them based on talent (not on units earned). We, as a California land grant/public institution, cannot do this - if a transfer student has taken two years of transferrable coursework at the Jr. College level, we must accept them in as a junior (unless they CHOOSE to repeat their sophomore year here in preparation for the BFA audition). And we have to be consistent - we can't say, "Well this transfer student is talented, so we'll make them a junior, and that one isn't so we'll make them a sophomore..." That is much too capricious to fly here.</p>

<p>The second reason we audition at the end of the sophomore year is to offer students who start here two FULL years of preparatory courses (all areas of the discipline except private voice are open to them) before being evaluated on their skills and talent. In those two years, the students work with most (if not all) of the professors in the discipline, get to know who their "competition" is, and know what it is we are looking for in the auditions (a definite advantage over the transfer students). We as a faculty are EXTREMELY candid with our students - we feel it is only fair to be so, as they are investing their time, effort, money and passion in their education here; and we feel we owe them an honest evaluation at every step. So if the student has taken all the recommended preparatory coursework, they really KNOW whether or not they are competitive by the time they finish their sophomore year.</p>

<p>I hope this answers your question. If you need more info, drop me an email, okay?</p>

<p>All the best,</p>

<p>eve</p>

<p>I guess it might help to know what the audition into the CSUF BFA in Musical Theatre program entails...</p>

<p>The auditions (or "juries," as we call them) always occur in May, right before final exams begin (though we may advance the date by a week in the future, so that students can REALLY focus on final exams). Students receive the results of their juries within three days.</p>

<p>Students must pass ALL THREE areas of their juries (singing, dancing and acting) to be considered for admission to the BFA. After that, it becomes a matter of numbers - we can have no more than 20 students, junior and senior classes combined, at any time per National Association of Schools of Theatre accreditation guidelines. So if more than the allotted slots available pass all three juries, we have to prioritize the top students to accept into the BFA.</p>

<p>All juries are adjudicated by ALL area faculty qualified to evaluate that particular area (for example, voice faculty won't evaluate the dance call, dance won't evaluate acting or voice, etc.).</p>

<p>The juries span three days. On the first day, the students all sing - they come in the studio in groups of 7 or 8. Each student prepares a list of two uptempo songs, and two ballads. They present one song of their choice, and the faculty may choose to hear a second (and sometimes even a third) song, or portion thereof. We are looking for both legit and belt ability from the women (as this is a marketable/standard level of talent required in the industry today); men needn't have any special (e.g. falsetto) quality in evidence (as it is so rarely called on professionally). All students must show their vocal range. Acting values are assessed in this audition, as are body deportment (an expressive/responsive physical instrument). Students must pass this jury to be considered for the BFA.</p>

<p>The second day is the dance jury. One hour (or more) is devoted to each style: first tap, then jazz, and finally ballet - a three+ hour marathon of dance, if you will. The students all learn a combination as a group, then present the combination in groups of 4 or 5; then we move on to the next section/style/genre in the same manner. Students are evaluated on all portions of this audition (both the learning phase and the presentation). Students must pass all three areas of this jury to be considered for the BFA.</p>

<p>The third and final day is the acting jury. Each hour, we schedule about 8-10 scene groups. Each hourly group comes into the theatre at the same time, sit in the theatre seats, and one group at a time they present a 3-minute scene prepared with their partner (selected at random for them from their acting class colleagues - and class time is devoted to rehearsal and preliminary showings/evaluation). Transfer students may opt to bring in either a 3-minute scene (with a partner they secure and rehearse with), or two 1-minute monologues. These juries are open to observation by other theatre students (as an educational and self-evaluation tool), but MUST be treated as an AUDITION. No applause is permitted, nor is over-zealous response/laughter, because it is a timed audition, and at three minutes they are told to stop. If the audience is disruptive, the offending member(s) are thrown out of the room and not readmitted. These juries are adjudicated by every acting teacher (except the teacher of each student team, who cannot vote on their own students, but can provide feedback if requested by the panel), and every director in the department (this jury has the largest panel of adjudicators in the whole jury process). Students must pass this jury to be considered for admission to the BFA.</p>

<p>The jury voting system is simple: a "pass" or "fail" vote is awarded by each adjudicator, and a majority of "pass" votes must be earned to successfully pass that audition. Students do not receive each individual adjudicator's vote, but they do receive a summary of the votes received. Students also receive a copy of all written evaluation forms that each adjudicator utilizes (the originals are kept in the student's permanent file in the dept. office).</p>

<p>If a student passes the acting jury, but not the singing and/or dancing jury, they can continue as an acting BA major (soon to be a BFA program - hopefully in place next year!). However, if they don't pass the acting jury (or the dance and voice and acting juries, in the case of the BFA), they must choose to refocus their concentration: either general theatre studies (a true "liberal arts" degree), directing, playwrighting, design, tech, or stage management is open to them. Some even opt for secondary education with a teaching credential in theatre. So options do exist within the department for those students who do not pass their juries (and they can still get out in two years, if they don't slack off on the unit load required to do so; which is less than the average BFA unit load by the way). </p>

<p>And ANY theatre major (except for first semester freshmen) can audition for the main stage productions - so students not passed on in the BFA or acting program can still get onstage. And we have a HUGE season with LOTS of roles that must be filled; we RARELY use student in two shows within one semester - we do want them to graduate in a timely manner - so there are roles enough to serve many students (not only the upper-division majors).</p>

<p>:)</p>

<p>I hope that this covers any questions you might have. Please let me know if you would like further information/clarification.</p>

<p>Thank you,</p>

<p>eve</p>

<p>Eve,
I think it is fantastic that you are taking the time to share details about your program for those who are considering applying. I likely speak for others who wish we had such inside information about the details of a program and the process of auditions for every school! </p>

<p>While I am through with this process with my own child and admittedly did not look at West Coast schools (she did not want to) and do not know much about them, I do have two questions about what you wrote. </p>

<p>One is, you mentioned that the National Association of Schools of Theater accreditation guidelines allowing for just 20 students in junior and senior year combined (so that is an avg. of 10 per year). I am curious, then, how come every BFA program my D appliled to except CMU have more than this per year in the class. Is it because this is merely a "guideline"? I mean they all have more. </p>

<p>Second, I mostly have a comment, not really a question. I thoroughly understand your reasoning about the audition process/juries being after the second year and it makes sense reading it. However, I have to admit I would have a quesy feeling entering a college with the intent of majoring in MT and then find out I could not after two years and at that point it is too late to audition for the other BFA programs. I guess that is a chance a student has to take (and I realize your positive point about other theater majors or related opportunities), but it is possible that the student might have gotten into another BFA program if not yours (at least in my observations, kids get into some, not others, sometimes in total reverse of their peers.....one got into X but not Y and then the other got into Y but not X) and so when a student is not admitted to ONE program, it does not necessarily follow that they are not "competitive" to be admitted to another BFA program. In the system whereby the audition does not occur until after soph year, the student has all their eggs in one school's basket and if they really wanted to pursue a BFA, and do not pass muster with the jury after soph year at your school, they are out of luck in terms of pursuing a BFA. It is a little akin to a cut system. I realize there are other benefits or very valid reasons behind this system but it would make me nervous to go that route. I think it is great that you are explaining all this so that someone can weigh the options and be fully informed of the process. Again, what you wrote made perfect sense but it still would make me nervous about such an option that closes out other BFA choices. I realize you are not the only school with such a system. I think Northwestern has something along these lines as well. </p>

<p>Again, thanks for all the contributions you have made to the forum. It helps to have those IN the programs participating here.</p>

<p>Susan</p>

<p>Our HS college counselling office told us that UCLA only accepts about 3% out of state students each year [not just MT--but the whole school]. Is this accurate? We have friends that just went there for a college visit and they did not get this same story. Can anyone offer any info on this subject?</p>

<p>soozievt - </p>

<p>I just did a little google search on this National Association of Schools of Theatre, and found their site (<a href="http://nast.arts-accredit.org/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://nast.arts-accredit.org/&lt;/a>. It appears that the reason the schools your daughter was accepted to have higher numbers than the guidelines Prof Himm. spoke about is because none of the "top" schools (NYU, Carnegie, CCM, BoCo, etc, etc) are apart of this association. The NAST seems to be made up of non-accredited college programs (AAMD, etc) and the big state schools.</p>

<p>NAST sets guidelines for individual programs as part of the accreditation review. These are based on curriculum, classroom space, production opportunities, and NUMBER OF TEACHERS in the program. The latter is the primary reason we are limited to 20 in the program; if we go over that number, the students are not getting the full one-on-one teacher experience that we hold to be our standard (and that NAST accreditation demands). </p>

<p>Remember, CSUF offers all the major coursework "in house," meaning "by our own Theatre & Dance Dept. faculty" (rather than farming students out to a separate Dance Dept. and/or Music Dept.). This cohesive approach is wonderful, but costly - and getting $ for more teachers is simply not an option (when compared to the theatre and department as a whole, relatively so few are served by the BFA that the "Full Time Enrollment" dollars generated won't warrant this).</p>

<p>We'd LOVE to have more teachers so that we could accept more students and "grow" the program; and we have received a few new positions this year (in anticipation of the BFA in Acting program going through and to replace retirements). But with strained California budget, we are glad to have what we have now. It could be a lot worse.</p>

<p>:)</p>

<p>On your second question/comment, I know. It's scary to face that you have invested two years and then might not be a BFA student. But classes that have been taken here may transfer to other universities (if that school will accept them); so students have that option as well - transferring out, and repeating that one (or two) year(s) at another program that will accept them...it's not uncommon in education today to take five or more years to graduate (in any discipline, not just the arts).</p>

<p>Playing "Devil's Advocate" now, I find a more scary proposition is the "let's take as many students as we can get, and then weed them out year by year" approach that many of the large/private institutions have. When looking at the numbers they accept, you must consider the number that actually enroll as freshmen (some are accepted on a contingent basis, as alternates, and may or may not make it in); and also the numbers that survive to their junior and senior year. And what is the student/teacher ratio like in those first two years of study? Very likely NOT what it is in the upper division. As discussed on this thread, some students leave of their own volition, but a majority of losses are students cut for artistic and/or academic reasons (many right into the senior year of study!). That is equally frightening to me as having two years to grow, groom, mature, and decide whether or not you are right for the program and vice versa.</p>

<p>I have heard (on this site) that a lot of students don't KNOW about the audition process here at CSUF - lack of research must contribute to this misunderstanding, as we are VERY candid about this in all discussions/communications. Thus, these students have a big disappointment/surprise ahead of them...but, as with all college prospects, "buyer beware." Learn about the program that you intend to invest four (or more) years, as well as a good deal of money, in.</p>

<p>Each year, more students choose to come to CSUF knowing full-well the risks of the process. And more and more keep coming each year. I believe our training is of such a quality, and their self-confidence in their own abilities/training, are enough for them to justify taking that risk.</p>

<p>Like the industry these kids have chosen (or, which has chosen them when they were first bitten by the Mus. Th. bug), there is no guarantee. This career path can be terribly disappointing. Rejection is the word - disappointment, du jour. </p>

<p>All of the top national musical theatre programs in some way or another prepare these students for that world - both in the training they receive, and in the constant evaluation (and exclusion) based on an aesthetic sensibility that the student has no control over. But that is our business; you need a "rhino skin" to make it in this industry (or else, one heck of a good therapist). I think that the best advice I can give parents is this:</p>

<p>1) Understand the business demands of this industry, so that you can keep the whole process (school, auditions, gigs, tours, casting, disappointments, etc.) in perspective - then it is easier to realize that no individual action is an "attack" on your child; it is merely part of the entertainment "circle of life," and one your child needs to embrace/accept as soon as possible.</p>

<p>2) Support your child 100% - this doesn't mean coddling them, or telling them that the "mean old school" doesn't know what they are doing/missing by cutting or not casting them. It means understanding that your child is hurting, and telling them that you know they are hurting, you share their pain, and you love them no matter what. Unconditional love and support are worth 100 times over any undue pressure that might be felt by your child (when a student is fragile or susceptible, they might feel they are LETTING YOU DOWN by not succeeding at any/every challenge). And over-protecting is bad for obvious reasons (the "stage mother" complex doesn't allow the child to mature and grow on their own terms/merit).</p>

<p>3) Realize that there are many professionals who work ALL THE TIME without a formal college education. These pros take independent classes and studio and lessons, for a premium expenditure. So, one might think of an education at a good college as an alternative to private lessons/coaching, at a reasonable (?) rate, on a regular/intense basis, in preparation for a career. Just think, if you took the money that you might spend at a top Mus. Th. university/conservatory, and put that into housing and private lessons in NYC for your child for four years, you would likely have the same (or better) results in the end - sans the "piece of paper" that the degree is (a "fallback plan" for many, allowing the student an "out" if they don't make a career onstage). The result of both roads? A student who knows how to capitalize on and care for their instrument; one who is well versed in the various demands of the industry and can meet those with facility; and one who knows how to audition for jobs, and keep the engagements once hired. In fact, the "networking" at private studios is often more valuable than that achieved at a university. And private studio students can AUDITION whenever they want, and TAKE JOBS whenever they come: Broadway, tours, cruise lines, theme parks, summer stock, regional theatre, etc. (it's a young person's business, and the window of opportunity is limited). Students in school cannot (or VERY rarely can) do this.</p>

<p>Finally, if your child wants to do Musical Theatre as a career, and knows they have your unconditional support and love, nothing can stop them - not even rejection by one or more schools.</p>

<p>I'm rambling, so I'll close now.</p>

<p>eve</p>