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<p>My SIL’s niece went to Yale but also accepted the corporate award of my company because her parents work there, $8000+ is greater than $2500. Simple math. Geez Luoise, why is it so hard to understand this!</p>
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<p>No, it wasn’t. Not even close. Your list included over 1,000 corporate-sponsored National Merit Scholarship winners, i.e., NMFs who got a National Merit Scholarship for being the son or daughter of a corporate employee or being from a geographic area the corporate sponsor favors. You just subtracted the school-sponsored scholarships from the total number of National Merit Scholarships. You didn’t account for the third category, corporate-sponsored scholarships, which number just a little under 1/3 of your totals–though of course we don’t know how they’re distributed, because NMSC doesn’t tell us.</p>
<p>“That’s exactly what happened to 20+ Alabama students according to this year’s report.” </p>
<p>“I posted this list because it’s important to show that the majority of “super qualified” kids in the country enroll in the best private schools. It’s an urban myth that the “best and brightest” are uniformly scattered all over the country that bclintonk seems to suggest.”</p>
<p>wrong on both points!
as bclintionk has pointed out, you have NO idea which students at which colleges have corporate sponsorships and which received NMSF $2500 awards. NONE. Half of the Yale or Harvard or Chicago students could have corporate sponsors! Or more! or less! The point is NO. ONE. KNOWS.
You keep on making assumptions and then try to justify them with erroneous information.</p>
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<p>Why is it “important to show that the majority of “super qualified” kids in the country enroll in the best private schools.”?</p>
<p>I happen to disagree with that statement and do not find that you have provided evidence to the contrary but why is it so important to you to “prove” such a thing?</p>
<p>This is the order in which the scholarships are announced</p>
<p>[ol]
[<em>]Corporate Scholarships
[</em>]NMSC’s own scholarships
[li]College’s official NMSC scholarships[/ol]</p>[/li]
<p>So a student who gets a corporate scholarship is ineligible for NMSC’s own scholarship or the College Official scholarship. Some of those who got the corporate scholarship may have got NMSC’s own scholarship if they had been eligible. </p>
<p>Further, NMSC’s own scholarships are state proportionate. So the 2500 scholarships have state quotas based on the number of HS students. So a student in NJ where there are many PSAT/SAT takers will find it more competitive when compared to Minnesota where there are many HS students but not too many who take the SAT.</p>
<p>So using NMSC’s own scholarship as a proxy for anything is not looking at the whole picture. Bill Gates for example got the corporate National Merit Scholarship as his mother worked for Boeing. Now would Bill Gates have got NMSC’s own scholarship (i.e. out of 2500)? We are never going to know that as he was knocked out of contention the moment he got it from Boeing. </p>
<p>Also some of the corporate scholarships are limited in number. Boeing for example gives it to every eligible student i.e, all NMF whose parent/s work for Boeing. Accenture, which has 1000’s of employees in the US gives only six scholarships. Again, I have no data, but I am going to assume that there could be more than 6 eligible students whose parent/s work for Accenture. So it is possible that a student did not get the scholarship from Accenture as it was very competitive, but got NMSC’s own scholarship as that was less competitive. </p>
<p>So it is not really an apples to apples comparison. Your chance of NMSC’s own scholarship is affected by the employer for whom your parents work and the state you live in. </p>
<p>So I am not sure how anyone can make a statement that NMSC’s own scholarships are the most rigorous.</p>
<p>You are correct, maze wanderer.</p>
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<p>I do not need the NMS list to tell me that HYPSM gets high performing students. All I need to look at is the median SAT scores (the middle 50%) which is published. The range for the median 50% is higher for HYPSM than for state schools. However, today a lot of middle class high performing students are choosing state schools due to finances. Most top schools are not very forthcoming with aid for upper middle class students. </p>
<p>Also, as I pointed out in a earlier post, Caltech may have only 36 NMS, but on a percentage basis they have more than HYPSM. So numbers alone mean nothing.</p>
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<p>I agree with this.</p>
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<p>I’d say it is the most rigorous, but that some of the Corporation winners could have won the NMSC scholarship. Boy, is the language involved confusing…</p>
<p>Is it possible to win the corporate sponsorship and the NMSC scholarship but accept the corporate sponsorship money instead but still be named as one of the 2,500 National Merit Scholars as recognized by NMSC’s holistic evaluation of the NMFs? This is the ultimate question here.</p>
<p>"I’d say it is the most rigorous "
But that does not mean that only the tip top students NATIONWIDE were chosen.
Given that the 2500 scholars were distributed by state for the one time award, I dont think it is a stretch to assume there ARE probably many tip-top NMS from Calif [who had 1999 NMSF’s] or Texas [ 1344 NMSF’s] or NY [957 NMSF’s] who had better overall stats than some $2500 scholarship winners from Alaska[ 43], or North Dakota [33] or Delaware[ 33] . There is simply not enough $$ available for NMSF to award more scholarships.</p>
<p>“The National Merit $2500 Scholarships are an integral
part of the National Merit Scholarship Program
because all Finalists compete for these awards, and
winners are named in every state and selection unit.
A Selection Committee, made up of college admission
officers and high school counselors, convenes to
select winners of these one-time awards.”</p>
<p>Golden boy, if a student is eligible for a corporate award, he/she is not considered for the $2500 NM award.</p>
<p>“Is it possible to win the corporate sponsorship and the NMSC scholarship but accept the corporate sponsorship money instead but still be named as one of the 2,500 National Merit Scholars as recognized by NMSC’s holistic evaluation of the NMFs? This is the ultimate question here.” </p>
<p>NO.</p>
<p>sheesh . read the report.
on page 13 it shows that National Merit Scholarship Corporation sponsored 2,381 scholarships. They are INCLUDED in the final total of 8330 scholarships listed on page 15.
ALL THE OTHER SCHOLARSHIPS WERE SPONSORED BY CORPORATIONS OR COLLEGES.</p>
<p>And NMSF’s “holistic” evaluation takes into account that “winners are named in every state”. They do not choose ONLY the top 2500 students NATIONWIDE based solely on stats/ SAT’s /grades/ accomplishments, etc . .
The state a student lives in is a big factor in selecting which students will win the $2500 awards. Just as it is with the PSAT cutoff scores. Its a lot harder to become a NMSF in some states than in others. Same Foundation, similar policies.</p>
<p>^^^ You answered the question. It is strictly based on when the award is announced. Once you get one award, you are taken out of the pool and cannot be considered for any other award. Corporate are awarded first and usually are far more generous than the NMSC’s own award. Corporate awards could be as high as $10,000 a year.</p>
<p>“Just as it is with the PSAT cutoff scores. Its a lot harder to become a NMSF in some states than in others.”
Exactly.</p>
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<p>[National</a> Merit Scholarship Corporation - NMSP](<a href=“http://www.nationalmerit.org/nmsp.php]National”>http://www.nationalmerit.org/nmsp.php)</p>
<p>Are you guys saying the bolded quote is incorrect?</p>
<p>Also, the website says there are 1,000 corporation-sponsored national merit scholarships.</p>
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<p>So, apparently, GoldenBoy, the students who achieve recognition through the National Hispanic Recognition Program and the National Achievement Scholars Program arent part of the equation of your reckoning of student body strength. According to your arbitrary narrow criterion, theyre obviously not the strongest students, the super qualified kids, the best and brightest, so they dont even matter in this discussion, eh? </p>
<p>GoldenBoy, your biases are showing. You might allow yourself to consider the following:</p>
<p>[National</a> Merit Bullies Counselor To Shield Award Bias | FairTest](<a href=“http://www.fairtest.org/national-merit-bullies-counselor-shield-award-bias]National”>http://www.fairtest.org/national-merit-bullies-counselor-shield-award-bias)</p>
<p>From the above link: NMSC has made no effort to address the huge income, racial and gender disparities in its awards. The skew stems from NMSCs misuse of minimum test scores to eliminate 98.5% of scholarship seekers, no matter how strong their other credentials. Upper-income white and Asians males still appear to receive the lions share of the awards.</p>
<p>And, finally, an important question is raised in the following:</p>
<p>[Revised</a> PSAT Debuts in October | FairTest](<a href=“http://www.fairtest.org/revised-psat-debuts-october]Revised”>http://www.fairtest.org/revised-psat-debuts-october)</p>
<p>The ease with which the gender gap can be narrowed by trivial changes in test format leads to two obvious questions. Why haven’t similar changes been made in similar exams such as the SAT and GRE? And, more fundamentally, why are instruments on which results can be so quickly “adjusted” ever used to make high-stakes decisions?</p>
<p>^What form of scholastic achievement is NOT linked to income? </p>
<p>Does that mean that an award based on achievement is flawed?</p>
<p>Sorry, but it’s a terrible and absurd argument.</p>
<p>“Are you guys saying the bolded quote is incorrect?” </p>
<p>what guys? </p>
<p>The bolded quote IS CORRECT. A Student can receive an official designated NMSF scholarship from ONLY one source. It can come from a NMSF sponsoring college, OR a sponsoring corporation, OR from NMSF itself, which is the $2500 scholarship referred to above.</p>