<p>-- what is Grinnell distinguished in academically?</p>
<p>S can speak to the extraordinary sciences: State-of-the-art facilities, the smallest intro chem, physics and bio classes of any top LAC (less than 30 students in any class - that’s true of all classes actually), profs that get consistently high ratings from the students, lots of money to support student research and summer internships (in all areas, including the sciences), amazing faculty mentoring, and no distribution requirements. S was comparing what he covers in a semester vs. what a friend at a highly regarded State U covered for the same classes - no comparison in both depth and breadth, so the rigor is there. Grinnell’s approach to the sciences has been cited for excellence elsewhere and the ‘hands on’ approach is a model emulated by other schools.</p>
<p>Others can speak to Grinnell’s other departments.</p>
<p>Instruction in languages is strong. My son has studied French, Arabic and Russian. History is his major and I think he has felt that the department is excellent.</p>
<p>He’s not a science guy, but some of his friends are. Clearly, sciences are a huge strength at Grinnell.</p>
<p>Science is easily the thing Grinnell is most widely known for and, unfortunately for us non-science people, it’s by far the area of the school that gets the most support from the college, with way more funding that anyone else. That said, Grinnell is one of the top ten producers of future phds in history, anthropology, and foreign languages, and i’ve heard nothing but great things about our econ department. I do mostly history and poli sci, and history usually has good offerings and has a lot of great profs, while poli sci has way fewer offerings.</p>
<p>Strength in the sciences necessarily involves a lot of investment in facilities - you have to have a modern chem lab to do quality work. The humanities just aren’t as capital intensive. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t a lot of investment in the social sciences and humanities. In the past decade, Grinnell has added Arabic and Linguistics to the available humanities offerings. They’ve added 12 interdisciplinary concentrations and 1 inter-disciplinary major. The social service mission gets a lot of funding as well. Grinnell-in-Washington is a significant investment in a strong political sciences experience. These links point to two other areas of strength that cross disciplines:</p>
<p>[Libraries</a> Receive Excellence in Academic Libraries Award - Libraries | Grinnell College](<a href=“http://www.grinnell.edu/library/acrlaward]Libraries”>http://www.grinnell.edu/library/acrlaward)</p>
<p>[College</a> initiates year-long apprentice program with local nonprofits - News | Grinnell College](<a href=“http://www.grinnell.edu/news/grinnell-news/college-initiates-year-long-apprentice-program-withlocal-nonprofits]College”>http://www.grinnell.edu/news/grinnell-news/college-initiates-year-long-apprentice-program-withlocal-nonprofits)</p>
<p>And although it’s not an academic strength per se, the amazing athletic and theater/performance facilities, not to mention the observatory are in a class by themselves among LACs.</p>
<p>When I say that the sciences are particularly well funded, it’s because I know that the humanities and social science departments frequently end up in fights for more funding, whereas in the Science departments it’s relatively easier. As an example, the Arabic and Gender Studies programs are regularly over-enrolled and could definitely use new hires to handle the huge demand. Because I study Arabic, I know several people who would want to major or concentrate in Arabic, but will not be able to because Arabic isn’t even it’s own department: it’s in the French department. In contrast, the computer science department, where some classes are in demand but there are only a handful of majors, has under-enrollment and many more professors. The third floor of Noyce includes two lounges set aside specifically for the comp majors. If you go to that floor, you find pictures and bios of all the professors and several pictures of all the computer science majors at regular outings. The non-science departments only hire to replace retiring professors. This is not to say that the humanities and social sciences aren’t strong: they are, and the departments are full of wonderful professors. I love the poli sci and history departments, and am sure I will get a great liberal arts education. However, because the school is consciously trying to make a name for itself as a liberal arts college for science majors, the institutional support for other departments is necessarily lower. Growth in these departments come when the demand gets so great action is required, as has happened in the coming international relations concentration, or when a professor fights for it, as in linguistics.</p>
<p>I wonder if Grinnell made these science hires following completion of the Noyce Center and before the economic collapse in '08. IIRC, Grinnell did not lay off faculty during the immediate year or two after the market plunge, and like many colleges, was cautious in its hiring at that point. I don’t know how long demand has been building up in some of these humanities and social sciences, but I imagine that the school needs to see some critical mass and sustained interest before bringing new faculty to campus. It sounds like the school is getting back in hiring mode. </p>
<p>Grinnell is one of the few LACs with a linguistics program (Carleton, Swarthmore and Macalester are the only ones I know of), and it is great they are bringing on a professor in that area to enhance what has been provided heretofore by professors in other disciplines.</p>
<p>When deciding to go to a LAC == any LAC, not just Grinnell – all these schools offer this distinguishing attribute in common: the promise of close relationships with faculty, both in and out of the classroom. By and large, these professors choose LACs because they like to teach undergrad students. </p>
<p>Often the size of a department reflects student interests, and is not necessarily an indication of professorial prowess. I wager that in any school that has just a few majors in any given department, that those students have just as good a chance at getting a stellar education in that field.</p>
<p>So, apart from specific departments, I’d propose some of Grinnell’s strengths as:
– personalized, individual advising. The first-semester tutorial professor is the advisor until the student chooses a major, at which point the advisor is a professor from that department. Grinnell has an “open” curriculum, but there are still many requirements and pre-requisites in choosing a major and just in moving to upper level courses. Incoming first-years fill out a detailed questionnaire for their advisor and take a first stab at their course selection, which is then worked over with the advisor upon arrival at orientation. My S’s first-year schedule is much more focused and productive than the one he thought of just off the top of his head as a result.</p>
<p>– individualized study options. As a small school, Grinnell does not offer departments in everything a student might want, but it does provide resources for students to explore whatever their personal interests might be. For foreign languages, for example, it offers the ALSO program for languages not in the curriculum, and for those languages it does have in the curriculum, it offers opportunities for students in courses taught in English to do some readings in the language. And, while Grinnell does not have a Jewish Studies program, for example, the college rabbi offers Hebrew and Torah Study classes.</p>
<p>– research and independent study: Mentored Advanced project [Mentored</a> Advanced Projects - Academic Affairs and Dean of the College | Grinnell College](<a href=“http://www.grinnell.edu/offices/dean/MAP]Mentored”>http://www.grinnell.edu/offices/dean/MAP)
[Undergraduate</a> Research - News | Grinnell College](<a href=“http://www.grinnell.edu/news/features/student-research]Undergraduate”>http://www.grinnell.edu/news/features/student-research)</p>
<p>– social justice: promoting social justice is part of Grinnell’s three part mission, and it sees this as part of student learning. Winners of the new Social Justice Prize will come on campus and interact with students in symposium, showing them how innovative ideas can be put into practice. [The</a> Grinnell College Young Innovator for Social Justice Prize Symposium - Social Justice Prize | Grinnell College](<a href=“http://www.grinnell.edu/offices/chaplain/socialjusticeprize/justice-prize-symposium]The”>http://www.grinnell.edu/offices/chaplain/socialjusticeprize/justice-prize-symposium)
Grinnell Corps: the college’s own version of the “Peace Corps,” a one-year fully funded post-graduate service opportunity for six Grinnellians. competitive to receive: [Grinnell</a> Corps - Social Commitment | Grinnell College](<a href=“http://www.grinnell.edu/offices/socialcommitment/grinnellcorps]Grinnell”>http://www.grinnell.edu/offices/socialcommitment/grinnellcorps)</p>
<p>– First semester tutorial: the purpose is to provide a bonding experience for first years and an introduction to college research and writing. There is a wide array of courses that speak to so many different interests a student might have. These courses are ones that the professors offer out of their own personal interest; they are not ones that are traditional to the curriculum. It also offers an opportunity for a seminar experience, which given the need to pursue intro courses as a first year, may not be as widely available otherwise right away. </p>
<p>– Small class sizes: again, this is a hallmark of LACs generally. At Grinnell, I don’t think that even for 101 courses, any class will be more than 30 students.</p>
<p>– Exco: like some other schools, Grinnell students and faculty teach classes for fun in which they have personal expertise. These are fun and informal. (exco = experimental college). </p>
<p>–Self-governance: this is a life skills learning experience. The premise is that these students are young adults who can use their college experience to practice and understand what it takes to live within a community. While students don’t “run” the school, they do have a seat on administrative committees that determine faculty hiring, college budgeting, etc. <a href=“http://www.grinnell.edu/offices/studentaffairs/selfgovernance[/url]”>http://www.grinnell.edu/offices/studentaffairs/selfgovernance</a></p>
<p>Diversity: Grinnell has one of the highest percentages of international students among all LACs, and one of the higher percentages of domestic students of color as well. This constitutes a form of learning as well: working and living with students from a variety of cultures and backgrounds. </p>
<p>Career development: i’m not so familiar with this department, but I do know it funds internships: <a href=“http://www.grinnell.edu/offices/cdo/internships/internshipfaqs[/url]”>http://www.grinnell.edu/offices/cdo/internships/internshipfaqs</a></p>
<p>I guess all these things add up to ways that the college helps to personalize and individualize each students’ learning experience, and to apply resources to fulfill its institutional mission. <a href=“http://www.grinnell.edu/offices/president/missionstatement/core[/url]”>http://www.grinnell.edu/offices/president/missionstatement/core</a></p>
<p>adding this:
[Where</a> do we stand with the Expanding Knowledge Initiative? - President | Grinnell College](<a href=“http://www.grinnell.edu/offices/president/faqs/standing-eki]Where”>http://www.grinnell.edu/offices/president/faqs/standing-eki)</p>
<p>As a parent, I am so impressed (bowled over, actually) by the transparency of Grinnell’s strategic planning and ongoing implementation and adjustments to its programs, and the level of self-awareness and continual striving for improvement these documents indicate. There is an incredible amount of information available on the school’s website. The above is from an FAQ page started by the new president, Dr. Kington.</p>
<p>some more individualized study links:</p>
<p>[Individual</a> Study - Catalog | Grinnell College](<a href=“http://www.grinnell.edu/academic/catalog/academic-program/courses/individual-study]Individual”>http://www.grinnell.edu/academic/catalog/academic-program/courses/individual-study)</p>
<p>I have no idea of how this compares to other colleges, but it looks pretty impressive to me! [Private</a> Lesson Instruction - Music | Grinnell College](<a href=“http://www.grinnell.edu/academic/music/privatelesson]Private”>http://www.grinnell.edu/academic/music/privatelesson)</p>
<p>I know this may sound hoaky to say, but I think Grinnell’s most important stength is its decency. The people there are very genuine and decent, possibly more than any other place I have been (I have been on a number of college campuses). I don’t know what causes this. It is probably not the administration who sometimes seem to be working against this (not the current president who I think is absolutely amazing and I am so glad Grinnell hired him). Not really the faculty - although they get into the spirit after they have been there awhile. I’ll tell you I don’t know what it is. Perhaps some form of collective unconscious that is passed down between the generations, traced back to Grinnell’s long history of social justice. But Grinnell is a place of uncommon decency, which is really important for a college I think.</p>
<p>I just want to expand on two of the things about Grinnell that I feel are overhyped or misrepresented: the first-year tutorial and the advising system</p>
<p>Some students get a good advisor. some do not. the minimum an advisor here will do is make sure you have actually thought about your schedule, but that is it. My advisor let me sign up for 2 classes that overenrolled; both were junior and senior only classes. She had no idea they were remotely hard to get into. Pick a tutorial taught by a professor in the department you’re most interested in: otherwise you run the risk of an advisor with no idea what to do with you.</p>
<p>I was hugely disappointed in the first year tutorial. it is NOT a seminar: it is designed to teach you what you were supposed to learn in high school and may not have. You will spend a ridiculous amount of time learning about things like how to write a thesis. It is designed to catch kids up, not to challenge them. It is very focused on a single topic, but that topic is not the point; it is a tool to teach kids how to write. For students like me, who learned a huge amount of writing at a private high school, it is extremely frustrating.
Also, the tutorial is billed as a way for first years to bond. this works similarly to dorm bonding: sometimes students have chemistry, often they do not, and will not develop any. Having a professor around does not facilitate bonding at a place like grinnell, where half the students spend the weekend drunk.</p>
<p>also, as far as class sizes go, it really depends on the demand for a class. i’m a social sciences person, and my 35-person class, required for the poli sci major, is the biggest i’ll ever take. however, one of my best friends is a biochem major and she says intro science class have a good 50 students, although they break into small groups regularly.</p>
<p>Just to be clear: I absolutely adore this school. But some aspects of it are overhyped and misrepresented, and I think every prospie should make an informed decision.</p>
<p>My son’s tutorial this year was run like a seminar. They had vibrant discussion and focused on the topic, in addition to doing the college skills stuff (research, writing and time management). Alot of the skills stuff was incorporated into the research project they had to do on the topic itself. I agree completely that it depends on the professor, though. </p>
<p>As for bonding, I agree with you about the chemistry issue. There is an article in the current Grinnell magazine about a student who is a senior and her tutorial group still meets regularly. My son’s tutorial class, while they all seemed to love it while they were together, have never met again on their own.</p>
<p>Look, I attended Williams College and my “advisor” was the tennis coach. Talk about knowing NOTHING about the academics at the school! So, when I hear that the school at least tries to give the students an opportunity for a home base with a professor right off the bat, I have to applaud this! </p>
<p>Alot of what any school offers are only as good as the use students make of it, and how good any individual professor is.</p>
<p>The fact is, the tutorial is really the one place where students are only with freshman. Dorms are mixed year, and classes of course can have all years. </p>
<p>I think alot of schools have a required freshman writing essay class. My D is at NYU and is required to take it for a year!! No one can place out of it no matter their test scores!</p>
<p>sarucane: Thank you for info on Seminar, that makes sense about it being a different spin on Freshman English. I have the brochure here and the topics are varied. So choose a topic similar to your major? Does the tutorial professor become your advisor?</p>
<p>Can’t help noticing bit of a talking point between science and non-science majors. Given that students have to spend a lot of their time in different classroom buildings, do they sort of group socially into science and non-science as well? Is it 1/3 science majors there? Most LAC are in mid- to low teens percentage-wise?</p>
<p>Why not assign advisors by your major, that is a professor who teaches courses in your major? Wouldn’t that be easier for everyone all around?</p>
<p>My son picked tutorials by interest, and he did absolutely fine. It really is as much a matter of the individual professor. His tutorial advisor did a phenomenal job in helping him negotiate and plan his course selection. </p>
<p>Most students do not head into Grinnell knowing what they will major in, and having them start out with an advisor in their major is contrary anyway to the philosophy of a liberal arts education. These students really should be using the first two years to explore a range of subjects and open themselves to new types of learning. Grinnell doesn’t mandate this, but works individually with the kids to help them learn to make informed decisions.</p>
<p>the other benefit to having the tutorial professor as the first advisor is that he/she gets to see the student in action in the classroom and theoretically this should help them work better with them. A major advisor would not necessarily be their professor starting from day one, and even if they were, it would probably be in a 101 type course, not one as interactive and skills-based as a tutorial. </p>
<p>Some professors will not be very effective in their advisory role, while others will. Luck of the draw.</p>
<p>It also depends on what the student wants to make of the relationship. I spoke to my son’s tutorial professor during Orientation, and he said that his experience had been that some students hardly came to him, while others came to him regularly, and he continues to have close relationships with them.</p>
<p>I actually think it’s pretty nice of Grinnell to try to package a college skills course in a way that the students might find palatable and engaging. These tutorial options are really diverse, offbeat and interesting! Some students have a fantastic tutorial experience, as my son, did and others might have more of a dud.</p>
<p>I might add that my S’s tutorial advisor didn’t hand over all the information on a silver platter. My S went to different department heads to discuss some options himself. In one case, he did enroll in a course the head had suggested, and then my S changed into a different course after a week because what the professor had recommended really wasn’t what he wanted.</p>
<p>And, before this thread sets off a flurry of families worried about their kids picking just the “right” professor, I’d encourage everyone to think about their own experiences in education up to now. There will be a few teachers in any system where there is universal agreement that he / she is the one to get or the one to avoid. But, for most teachers, it is a matter of style and fit: haven’t all of us had a teacher that was great for our kids, but someone else had a disappointing experience, and vice versa? </p>
<p>I submit that it will be the same in college – any school, not just Grinnell. My advice with the tutorial choice is to go with what’s of interest, and see how the relationship works out. The fact is, that while it didn’t work out for Sarucane, others in the class might have come away with a different perspective, and it may well be that someone else who has my son’s professor might have complaints. It is all pretty subjective!</p>
<p>Actually, I would rate my son’s advisor very high on course advisement and an interesting seminar experience, and lower on the college skills portion (it was there, but could have been drummed in a little better, IMO). So, there you go!</p>
<p>I personally don’t know info to help you with the question about science students and social life, but if this video is typical of the Grinnell experience, then it looks like at least some kids are multi-faceted and find different ways to engage in the community…
[YouTube</a> - Grinnell College “That’s Science. This is Grinnell”](<a href=“Grinnell College "That's Science. This is Grinnell" - YouTube”>Grinnell College "That's Science. This is Grinnell" - YouTube)</p>
<p>I agree, Sarucane, with your advice on picking a freshman seminar with a prof in a dept. you are potentially interested in majoring in. They will certainly be much most knowledgeable about what their own department offers. And of course, not every adviser is going to be sympatico, or is guaranteed to be well-informed outsides of his or her own dept. As you say, “the minimum an advisor here will do is make sure you have actually thought about your schedule.” S’s freshman adviser, by contrast, was very helpful, picking up the phone when needed to call other departments for information while he was sitting in her office. Of course, after your freshman year, you can change advisers and are, in fact, encouraged to do so, even if you stay in the dept., so that more than one faculty member knows you well.</p>
<p>I’m also aware that the intro biochem class is oversubscribed this year (although there are not 50 students in it - per S who is in the class). The prof decided not to turn away the students who wanted the class and would have no opportunity to take it before graduating. Note that the ‘intro’ biochem class is a 200 level course, and not actually an ‘intro’ course at all. No freshman or sophomores in the class and several 200 level courses are prereqs. There are no intro chem or bio classes that are larger than 24 students, per the slots available to enroll in the courses next fall. But I do see some courses in physics that are larger than I expected (a max of 40 in several, although I don’t know if these classes actually fill up - I assume they do) and two in Math that are up to 32 students.</p>
<p>Sorry your freshman seminar was disappointing - it happens. It is writing intensive and, if you are already a great writer, you may not get a lot out of that aspect of it. “Having a professor around does not facilitate bonding at a place like grinnell, where half the students spend the weekend drunk.” Half of all students? Even half of all freshman would sounds like hyperbole. Not consistent with S’s experience at all.</p>
<p>I’m sure everyone’s sick of hearing from me by now… But I feel compelled to play devil’s advocate to M’s Mom and Sarucane’s perspective on picking tutorial.</p>
<p>It seems to me that the student who knows what they want to major in has it easy the first year, no matter their advisor: they can email or call that department head and ask for recommended first year course selection strategy in that major. </p>
<p>However, if a student enters Grinnell knowing their major, but would still like to gain a broader education, than working with an advisor outside that department for the first year might actually be more beneficial. In fact, I would wager that Grinnell offers these off-beat tutorials for that very reason: to encourage students to meet professors and get exposed to areas of study that might not have occurred to them as rising high school students. </p>
<p>As M’s Mom said, this advisor is not yours for the whole Grinnell career. And, just because they ARE your advisor, doesn’t mean that the student can’t go out and get information and establish relationships with other departments! That’s exactly what my son did right from the start. </p>
<p>I might add that my son is attending a summer program that was suggested to him by a professor in a class he was taking. The advisor had nothing to do with this. So, it’s not like the students don’t get advice and support from other sources!</p>