<p>Hatt, huh, what are you talking about?..if you read my posted messages you will see that I am only CORRECTING the false statements that sclinsay was posting.</p>
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<p>No, I’m comparing Ohio State and 13 other public schools to Ivies, there is a huge difference. and I think its only natural to measure the career path that is set by a department, to that department. Ivies have roughly four times as many people as OSU in the department that focuses on politics, so its only natural that they’d have more people in politics. </p>
<p>By your logic Physics majors and Agriculture majors have as much to do with the equation as People who actually plan on going into the field.</p>
<p>and Implication speaks just as loud as words</p>
<p>Re: post #40…Yes, I realize that, JohnAdams…and I think sclindsay does, too…my comments were intended to clarify the distinction between one’s access to a public office vs. the quality of one’s education, a distinction that got muddled in sclindsay’s post.</p>
<p>sclindsay, again, you are kidding right?</p>
<p>so now it is a comparison of political science departments?</p>
<p>I haven’t done this, but I bet that less than 20% of the U.S. Senators majored in Political Science in undergraduate school.</p>
<p>please stop your nonsense here.</p>
<p>everyone knows that you don’t need an Ivy League education to go into politics or become a U.S. Senator.</p>
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<p>Re: post #42…
sclindsay, majoring in political science does not set up a particular career path…while some students who would like to enter politics pick this as a major, many others with that major do not plan to enter politics. Likewise, many enter politics from majors other than political science.</p>
<p>I would attend a top public than any of the lower ivies.</p>
<p>sclindsay, I see that you are a rising high school senior with OK stats. It seems that you are justifying in your mind and on this message board why you will not be hampered towards your ultimate goal of being in politics by not going to the Ivies and instead to a good state school. Don’t worry about it. Going to Ohio State will give you as much education as any Ivy League school to prepare you for the world of politics. In fact, it remains to be seen whether it is the college education or the real life work experience that prepares you better.</p>
<p>a tip: In politics, if you are going to try to make a point with numbers, use the correct figures.</p>
<p>good luck</p>
<p>Re: Post #47… For a top student, a case could be made either way. A case could even be made for some of the publics you might not consider at the top, depending on what you wanted to study.</p>
<p>Claiming to be a “Public Ivy” is like claiming to be a “middle-class billionaire.” It’s OK, you know, to just be an outstanding public university.</p>
<p>I bet less than 1% majored in over half the majors offered at OSU that aren’t at Dartmouth.</p>
<p>Yes, probably about 40% have their law degree, probably about 7 or 8 were doctors, but political science was designed for politics, and so at least its some measure of comparison. and for the record I think Brown, Fiengold (yes I’m aware he got his law degree at Harvard), McCaskill and Snowe are a helluva lot better at their job than David Vitter, Elizabeth Dole, Ted Stevens and some of the other deeply flawed Ivy Senators of present and history.</p>
<p>My point is that an Ivy does not insure a flawless education, and going to a public school does not insure an imperfect one.</p>
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<p>I’m afraid I have to disagree with that logic. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of poli-sci students at any school - Ivy or otherwise - have no intention of actually entering politics, just as the vast majority of students in any liberal arts major do not intend to enter that respective field (strictly defined). Let’s face it: most psychology majors do not become professional psychologists, most history majors do not become professional historians, most math majors do not become professional mathematicians. While I can agree that there is some correlation between majoring in poli-sci and becoming a politician, the link seems to be quite weak. </p>
<p>As a case in point, consider the career paths reported by poli-sci graduates from Berkeley, one of the top-ranked poli-sci programs in the country. While some do indeed take politics-related jobs or head to the popular pre-politics prep step of law school, the majority took jobs which offer no clear path towards a future political career, such as becoming a store manager at Abercrombie & Fitch or a Southwest flight attendant. </p>
<p><a href=“https://career.berkeley.edu/Major2006/PolSci.stm[/url]”>https://career.berkeley.edu/Major2006/PolSci.stm</a></p>
<p>USNWR Top Public Universities</p>
<p>Best Colleges: Top Public Schools: National Universities</p>
<p>Rank<br>
University of California–Berkeley Berkeley, CA 1<br>
University of California–Los Angeles Los Angeles, CA 2<br>
University of Virginia Charlottesville, VA 2<br>
University of Michigan–Ann Arbor Ann Arbor, MI 4<br>
University of North Carolina–Chapel Hill Chapel Hill, NC 5<br>
College of William and Mary Williamsburg, VA 6<br>
Georgia Institute of Technology Atlanta, GA 7<br>
University of California–San Diego La Jolla, CA 7<br>
University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign Champaign, IL 9<br>
University of Wisconsin–Madison Madison, WI 9</p>
<p>University of California–Davis Davis, CA 11<br>
University of California–Santa Barbara Santa Barbara, CA 11<br>
University of Washington Seattle, WA 11<br>
University of California–Irvine Irvine, CA 14<br>
Pennsylvania State University–University Park University Park, PA 15<br>
University of Florida Gainesville, FL 15<br>
University of Texas–Austin Austin, TX 15<br>
Ohio State University–Columbus Columbus, OH 18<br>
University of Maryland–College Park College Park, MD 18<br>
University of Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, PA 20 </p>
<p>University of Georgia Athens, GA 21<br>
Clemson University Clemson, SC 22<br>
Purdue University–West Lafayette West Lafayette, IN 22<br>
Texas A&M University–College Station College Station, TX 22<br>
University of Minnesota–Twin Cities Minneapolis, MN 22<br>
Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey–New Brunswick Piscataway, NJ 26<br>
University of Connecticut Storrs, CT 26<br>
University of Delaware Newark, DE 28<br>
Indiana University–Bloomington Bloomington, IN 29<br>
Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 29<br>
University of California–Santa Cruz Santa Cruz, CA 29<br>
University of Iowa Iowa City, IA 29<br>
Virginia Tech Blacksburg, VA 29 </p>
<p>Colorado School of Mines Golden, CO 34<br>
Miami University–Oxford Oxford, OH 34<br>
University of Colorado–Boulder Boulder, CO 34<br>
SUNY–Binghamton Binghamton, NY 37<br>
SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry Syracuse, NY 37<br>
Auburn University Auburn University, AL 39<br>
Iowa State University Ames, IA 39<br>
North Carolina State University–Raleigh Raleigh, NC 39<br>
University of Vermont Burlington, VT 39 </p>
<p>SUNY–Stony Brook Stony Brook, NY 43<br>
University of Alabama Tuscaloosa, AL 43<br>
University of California–Riverside Riverside, CA 43<br>
University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 43<br>
University of Nebraska–Lincoln Lincoln, NE 43<br>
Florida State University Tallahassee, FL 48<br>
University of Arizona Tucson, AZ 48<br>
University of Missouri Columbia, MO 48<br>
University of Oklahoma Norman, OK 48 </p>
<p>University of Massachusetts–Amherst Amherst, MA 52<br>
University of Tennessee Knoxville, TN 52<br>
Washington State University Pullman, WA 52<br>
University of New Hampshire Durham, NH 55<br>
University of South Carolina–Columbia Columbia, SC 55<br>
New Jersey Institute of Technology Newark, NJ 57<br>
Ohio University Athens, OH 57<br>
University of Oregon Eugene, OR 57<br>
Arizona State University Tempe, AZ 60<br>
Michigan Technological University Houghton, MI 60<br>
University at Buffalo–SUNY Buffalo, NY 60 </p>
<p>University of Utah Salt Lake City, UT 63<br>
Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 64<br>
Louisiana State University–Baton Rouge Baton Rouge, LA 64<br>
Missouri University of Science & Technology Rolla, MO 64<br>
University of Arkansas Fayetteville, AR 64<br>
University of Kentucky Lexington, KY 64</p>
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<p>On the contrary: successful politicking often times means making points with deliberately misleading numbers.</p>
<p>sclindsay, you see. here is the point</p>
<p>NO ONE IS ARGUING WITH YOU ON THIS</p>
<p>END OF SUBJECT</p>
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<p>Re:#48 Maybe You’re right, maybe this is just a defense mechanism, my point was not about Ohio State (Which is my 4th or 5th choice), but that you are capable of obtaining just as good an education at a public school as at an Ivy. only one of my stats was wrong (and I admitted it as soon as I saw you were right), and I still think Poli Sci department, or maybe law is a better measure than the population of the school as a whole. There are a lot of majors at public schools, that have nothing to do with politics, that aren’t offered at Ivies. I guess this is a cease fire? hahaha</p>
<p>sakky, and ALWAYS those misleading figures will backfire on the candidate.</p>
<p>by the way, “misleading” is different than outright “false” numbers</p>
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<p>I agree with sakky completely. In fact, a friend of mine who graduate with a degree in biology at Dartmouth more than a couple of years ago couldn’t find a job related to his major and couldn’t get into a decent medical school in the US.</p>
<p>Regarding the Juilliard/Indiana debate, what ranking was being referenced? Music schools aren’t ranked by anyone given that each studio would need to be ranked independently. For the sake of argument, why don’t we look at our nation’s major symphony orchestras (e.g., New York, MET, Philly, Chicago, Cleveland, Boston, Chicago, LA, Seattle, Atlanta, San Francisco) and see which school is better represented. (Obviously, Juilliard.) As a musician, I find the idea of ranking music schools concretely ABSURD. The only justifiable methodology would hinge on which schools produce the highest number of professional musicians in the highest paid orchestras given that music schools are essentially trade schools, but even then there is so much variance in schools from studio to studio that such a methodology could not guarantee representative or meaningful rankings. The vocal program at Indiana is as good as it is anywhere, IMHO, but the instrumentalists just can’t compete with Curtis/Juilliard grads. (Several friends of mine from high school ended up at Indiana and my ex-boyfriend was a Juilliard grad. The latter was superior by orders of magnitude.)</p>
<p>The problem with Indiana is that it is simply too large. The musicians at the top are first rate, but you’re talking seven orchestras. SEVEN. With a 30% admissions rate for undergrads, Indiana just isn’t selective enough to ensure the consistency of Juilliard or Curtis, even if there are individuals there just as skilled. I can’t speak for Indiana, but my ex-boyfriend was advanced past prescreening for an LA Phil audition a few years back simply because he had a Juilliard diploma. The degree didn’t get him the job, but it got him in the door and made things considerably easier, and frankly I just don’t see an Indiana degree doing that anytime soon unless they start raising minimum admissions standards. Again, the top of each studio at Jacobs may indeed (and likely does) have musicians on par with anyone from any conservatory, but the middle and bottom feeders are certainly not of the same caliber. I don’t mean to offend anyone at Jacobs, but (aside from the vocal program) it is not, has never been, and will not likely become a Juilliard anytime soon until they start being more selective.</p>
<p>Also, for the record, there are eight Ivy League schools, as mentioned: Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Penn, Columbia, Dartmouth, Cornell, and Brown. Any usurpation of that prestige by other schools is just sour grapes from those who didn’t get into one. Find your own title and earn your place. (Not to sound like a douc**, but honestly, I worked my ass off to get into Penn and when I hear things like “Public Ivy” or “Jesuit Ivy,” I’m annoyed by the often unjustified presumption of academic parity.)</p>
<p>(Berkeley, UCLA, and UMichigan notwithstanding.)</p>