<p>Thanks for the informative comments…I’d have to defer to your greater knowledge of music schools.
In the context of this thread, the larger point was that public universities can offer some good options for top students, and that there are good programs even at some publics that are not ranked at the tippy-top overall. Others might disagree with you about Indiana, but you bring up specific and relevant considerations.</p>
<p>
Fair enough…now, let’s add some objective numbers to those subjective grades…</p>
<p>#NAS + #NAE Members, School
209 , Berkeley</p>
<p>56, UCLA</p>
<p>27, Georgia Tech
15, U Virginia
0, William and Mary</p>
<p>:)</p>
<p>Re #60: think you bring up something interesting, I think one of the reasons Ivies out perform other schools is because they are so selective (Not putting any one of the Ivies down), If you needed a 2100+ to get into any school, that school would appear to be better than all the others as well.</p>
<p>Re: post #60:
I’m annoyed by the often unjustified presumption of academic superiority.</p>
<p>I concur (#64)</p>
<p>
Agreed, but why put UCB, UMich and UCLA on Penn’s level? They don’t belong.</p>
<p>lesdia, what do you mean specifically by “they don’t belong”?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
Damn right! (Well at least one). </p>
<p>#NAS + #NAE Members, School
209 , Berkeley (with NO medical school - it would be 249 with UCSF included 
)</p>
<p>56, UCLA
44, Michigan
38, Penn
27, Georgia Tech
24, Duke
15, U Virginia
0, William and Mary</p>
<p>You know, if y’all were secure in the schools that you go to or the schools you are applying to, there would be no need to attack UCB :)</p>
<p>ucb,
Please provide data on the numbers of undergrads that take courses with these profs. In addition, please note how many students major in these subjects in relation to the total undergraduate population. Thanks.</p>
<p>Wow. Imagine a top 10 school like Duke having only 24 NAS and NAE members combined! How embarrassing is that?</p>
<p>rjk,
Do you realize that per capita Duke has more NAS/NAE members than does your U Michigan? </p>
<p>24 at Duke for undergrad population of 6496</p>
<p>44 at U Michigan for undergrad population of 25,994 (and rumored to be expanding significantly, perhaps to as many as 30,000 undergrads)</p>
<p>Re: #64</p>
<p>Unjustified presumption of academic superiority? I think the average test scores and GPAs of matriculating freshmen at the Ivies speak for themselves. Does that mean every student at Penn is superior to all students at say the University of Arizona? Of course not - as that would be absurd - merely that the average student at the former is academically superior to that at the latter. My justification is the general trend toward higher test scores and GPAs as well as more rigorous courseloads in high school of matriculating Ivy students. And yours would be?</p>
<p>WHO CARES ABOUT ALL THIS?</p>
<p><end of=“” rant=“”></end></p>
<p>Hawkette, I don’t have enough info to answer your question exactly. Note, as I said, Berkeley doesn’t have a med school. NAS members teaching at a college’s med school don’t exactly teach undergrads, do they? However, dividing the NAS/NAE members by total undergrads yields the following (probably reasonable enough for a quick acid test):</p>
<p>0.82%, Berkeley</p>
<p>0.37%, Penn, Duke
0.21%, UCLA
0.20%, Georgia Tech
0.17%, Michigan
0.11%, Virginia</p>
<p>0.00%, William & Mary</p>
<p>Granted, the average Penn student is academically superior to the average Arizona student—no argument there. My only point is that given a student of comparable ability at the more selective flagship publics, s/he can obtain an education equal to, or better, than that which s/he could obtain at an elite private across a broad range of disciplines.</p>
<p>rjk,</p>
<p>Let me expand on Hawkette’s figures.</p>
<p>Duke has 113 members in its engineering faculty (93 of which are tenured/on tenure path) and 24 of the professors are NAS/NAE members.</p>
<p>Michigan has 440 members in its engineering faculty and 44 of the professors and 44 of them are NAS/NAE members.</p>
<p>21% of Pratt’s faculty are distinguished while only 10% of UofM’s CoE faculty are distinguished.</p>
<p>les, you’re mixing apples and oranges a bit.</p>
<p>These are the National Academy of Engineering numbers which are relevant to the engineering faculty:</p>
<p>[Using your faculty numbers, which seem high]
Duke: 3 NAE members/113 engineering faculty = 2.65% “distinguished”
Michigan: 21 NAE members/440 engineering faculty = 4.77% “distinguished”</p>
<p>[Members</a> By Parent Institution](<a href=“http://www.nae.edu/nae/naepub.nsf/members%20by%20parent%20institutionu?OpenView&Start=30]Members”>http://www.nae.edu/nae/naepub.nsf/members%20by%20parent%20institutionu?OpenView&Start=30)</p>
<p>Easy. How many schools are in the ivy league? Eight? Just take the eight top-ranked public schools in this country, and bang, there’s your new public ivy league.</p>
<p>I think the “Superiority” is based more on the selectivity of the institution than the education… but thats just me. Again I feel if worst school in the country started only accepting people with 4.0, 2100+ it would shoot up the rankings</p>