Are prestigious colleges better?
Is Columbia better than colleges like Case Western Reserve University or University of Virginia?
What about going to a community college?
My personal opinion: “Prestige” only matters if you want to go into one of the very few careers that care a lot about prestige, such as investment banking. Otherwise, there are a very large number of very good universities and colleges in the US, more outside the US, and you should find a school that is a good fit for you. You will find a lot of very good professors, and a few bad professors, and any reputable university.
The highest ranked top 20 or so schools do not have any special way to impart knowledge into the brains of their students. They do not insert a microchip in your brain during initial orientation and download wonderful information into you brain painlessly while you sleep. Instead, if there is any academic difference, it is because they assume that students can take in information at a faster rate. This is likely to mean more homework, harder tests, and tougher grading. One person I know who went to a highly ranked university says “you have to want to do it”.
For the specific schools that you mentioned, Case Western Reserve and UVA are very good universities. Any of the schools that you mentioned will be academically very challenging and provide a very strong education and when you graduate you will have a degree which is recognized and respected. All would be a very good fit for many students. None would be a very good fit for all students. Visit the schools and see what you think of them. Sit in on a few classes if you can arrange this.
One way that schools do vary enormously in our experience is the cost of attendance. You should avoid taking on debt for your undergraduate degree if you reasonably can.
I don’t have any experience with community college. I am under the impression that there is a significant gap between the schools that you mentioned versus community college.
You need to separate prestige and educational quality. I think UVA and Case Western, for example, would provide a quality of education that is roughly comparable to what Columbia provides. In looking at educational quality, I’d recommend looking more at indicators of the institution’s commitment to undergraduate education rather than prestige. I know others on this board disagree with me, but I have seen what I view as questionable commitment to undergraduate education even at prestigious universities.
Prestige clearly matters in some cases, particularly in fields where educational “pedigree” is referenced frequently. In high tech, this is less frequent. In investment banking, more frequent.
I have seen studies that have shown that in general students entering colleges with similar qualifications have similar outcomes in the long run regardless of where they go to school, all other things being equal. An example might be going to UVA as an Echols scholar vs going to Columbia with the same majors. Ivy League schools certainly send a higher percentage of students to higher ranked graduate and professional programs, but that is to be expected because they have a higher percentage of highly credentialed undergraduates.
Some big-name schools with famous scholars will shortchange the undergraduates. Look at class sizes and whether graduate students teach classes. If a university is using a lot of adjunct faculty, that doesn’t necessarily mean teaching quality suffers, but it tells you a lot about institutional priorities.
I only have 1.2 semesters left and I think it was definitely worth it. I had some hard times here, where i really struggled. I got lucky with some aspects as well. But the high pressure environment and similarly minded, ambitious student body has really pushed me in ways that the universities back home (where I received large scholarships) would not. I would not have read the books that I read if it were not for the core. I would not have pushed to try and get published if my friend, a valedictorian, didn’t tell me how he did it. The list goes on and on.
I think the core, the humanities seminars, and potentially Mowshowitz bio are the most ‘unique’ classes here. The close conversations that I’ve had with my professors during office hours have been amazing. Many of the science classes are taught by some absolute geniuses but the format doesn’t lend itself to any particular enlightenment. Despite being a ‘STEM’ major, I’m sure I will not remember most of those classes as fondly as I will remember my humanities classes.
Moreover, I think the thing about the Columbia environment, at its best, is a sweeping tornado fueled by everyone around you saying, “more, more, more.” If you’re in a state to harness that energy, it’s just great. It feels awesome to be constantly challenged like that and I know for a fact that I wouldn’t have gotten that at home. But that can also be really hard if you’re not in the right mental state and if you’re not mature, and I think that I was lucky in that Columbia helped me in that direction. But everyone is different and if your financial circumstances make paying for such a school difficult, it’s a much tougher decision.
Starting at a community college and transferring to a four-year school is a great option for many people. Many top performers in the world took that route.
If you’re thinking of CU, you could possible start at community college and transfer into the GS program. Be aware that GS financial aid is not as generous as for Columbi U’s college (Columbia college), SEAS or Barnard.
IMHO Case Western and UVA are amazing schools with unique personalities. They provide excellent educations.
Again IMHO what’s more important that the college a person attends is who the person is inside: how smart are you? How ambitious are you? How creative are you? Do you problem solve well? How well do you take adversity and turn it into something good? Do you work well with others? Are you a risk taker?
And then there’s just plain luck. Part of luck you create for yourself, of course, but then there’s the whim of fate and fortune that none of us can control.
IMHO yet again, the most important thing to choose right now is the school that best suits you. Some other person on this forum explained the choice as a Venn diagram: one circle is finances (look at the net cost, not the sticker price, by going to “college navigator” and clicking on net price and then use the net price calculator on your chosen schools’ websites; also check for FA and merit options by looking at collegedata); a second circle in the Venn diagram is whatever you want to study, most likely, knowing that it may change; and a third circle is whether you can get in. You may want to add other circles for other factors, such as Greek life or no Greek life, that sort of thing. Your job is finding a school that fits in the middle of the overlapping circles. That’s the sweet spot for you.
Best of luck to you.
The two colleges that you named as “normal” are excellent colleges, too— among the nation’s best.They do not contrast sharply with Columbia. Past a certain level, the US news rankings (or whatever else you are using to designate Columbia as potentially ‘better’) are not going to differentiate quality dramatically.
That said, I have two thoughts here:
- To some extent, what you get out of college depends more on who you are than on where you are. Your own thirst for knowledge and enthusiasm for learning and challenging yourself and participating actively in your own education will determine your experience. A highly motivated learner could learn more at a community college or a four year college with an 80% acceptance rate than someone only concerned with grades could learn at a top ranked college.
- However, there are two distinct advantages to more selective colleges. The first is that they have the prestige and wealth to provide the best resources for their students: professors who are top in their field, smaller class sizes overall with a better student:faculty ratio, better equipment, cutting edge research, remarkable guest speakers, diverse students from throughout the world.
- But the more important advantage is the second: the students they attract. At Williams, where I did my undergraduate work, I learned a lot from speaking with my peers in and out of class. The conversations were really stimulating. The environment there made the four years seem a magical time of life devoted to thinking. Later in my life, I earned a certificate in my field from a less prestigious college near my home. It is still a reputable school, but one that ranks close to 200 in its category in US News. In my classes, there were two students I met who were like me and really into thinking and learning. We found one another. Some others in my classes were motivated and hardworking and actively participating, though not conversationally brilliant. But the majority of the students did the bare minimum, did not do the readings ahead of time, spent their time cracking jokes or fooling around during class, did not participate or push themselves during discussions, and gave startingly simplistic answers even in one-to-one conversations I had with them. In a top college, the majority (though not all) of the students will love learning and talking about ideas with their peers. In a less elite college, the reverse may be true. But you can still find peers like you at any college- just fewer of them at some.
None at all. In the working world, a bachelor’s degree is a bachelor’s degree. The fact that it comes from Columbia changes nothing. The only difference is how much you pay for it. Harvard graduates successful people because the people they select are motivated and successful. That doesn’t make Harvard good. It just makes them selective. 94% of the working world does NOT come from ivy league schools and they do just fine. These are top doctors, lawyers, scientists, engineers, etc. The rest of the “elite” graduates work in the exact same economy making a living like everyone else.
Listen to what @TheGreyKing said. There are many factors.
I know no one who thinks degrees from Harvard and community colleges are equivalent, but there are some smart people at community college, and some people just going through the motions at Columbia and Harvard. It’s personal, and you’ll get out what you put in.