<p>The same may be said of the GRE's as well I suppose. I worked for many years in hospital settings and routinely saw the many hours residents were required to work, although some states have now put a limit on this it is still excessive. However, I have seen Ph.D. students and post-docs sleeping in their labs and tracking multiple experiments that required their attention for year after year. (We had a t-shirt that read, Grad school, not just a job, and indenture; we even had to ask permission to move or get married.) For example, a friend's daughter is spending a full year (not her first) living in a South American jungle under extraordinarily primitive and physically challenging conditions so she can observe and record a rare language, she is in her 8th year and has a couple left to go. She would love a cozy hospital to work in. I'm not sure one can conclude one track is much more difficult than another. A relative, currently doing a residency says he thought med school was easier than his high school, of course he said this about his college experience as well, perhaps one should avoid that high school.</p>
<p>I still don't buy the idea that the United States has a shortage of medical doctors, nationwide. Be quantitative and specific about the United States and other countries if you'd like to get me to change my mind.</p>
<p>montrose,
PhD students and postdocs are the same slave labor, just in a different situation. Sleepless nights running the experiments, months spent only to discover that your main idea( or your profs main idea) was worthless and you need to start from scratch again. I am not going to argue about strenuosness of MD training, I just resent the "PhDs have no right to call thenselves doctors" speech. :-)</p>
<p>tokenadult, you are arguing in a box of your own making and trying to lure others in there with you. (But it's a very nice box. And you may be right. ;)) You want to confine/frame the argument in terms of America's need for doctors based on what some other country does with their medical care delivery system. </p>
<p>
Gas consumption is higher here and I'll bet electricity , styrofoam , and maybe Bible and porno consumption per capita is, too. All are interesting observations of some interesting priorities but none of those observations answer or even speak to the supply and demand question. Just the demand side. LOL. </p>
<p>You are as such arguing that our appetite for doctors is too "high" and attempt to quantify that by showing how they do it in France. Some would disagree with your basic premise (and don't care how they do it in France) and refuse to climb into the box with you. </p>
<p>Market forces determine demand, not what "should be" the market forces. Everything I have seen about the graying of America and our ever-increasing per capita consumption of healthcare shows a continuing need for additional doctors in the forseeable future to deal with that aging population (and our national obsession with quick fixes).</p>
<p>hubbell's dad responds:</p>
<p>as a physician, I will just say that it takes 6 weeks to see my specialty in this large city(9th largest in US); the demand by baby boomer americans for health care is insatiable(and they want it for free). the demand for healthcare by the baby boomers will continue to expand(and curmudgeon has it right in his assessment) and we baby boom doctors(40% of the total in the US) are looking to retire ourselves just when the demand will be highest.</p>
<p>hubbell's dad: would you recommend to your son that he become a physician (if he is interested)? That is the path my D is taking, and she is very determined. She saw four C-sections this past Sat. (in the same hospital where she was born) and was ecstatic with the experience. It does seem like a hard (but rewarding) lifestyle to me.</p>
<p>hubbell is in the process of medical school application. His first interview is next week(he is presently in Zambia working at a hospital there, he returns this Saturday after a month in Zambia). His college has prepared him very well(MCAT score of 35). I have been neutral in his decision making about career plans through the years(as I am full of bias at this point in my life), I only offer him advice when asked.</p>
<p>
WooHoo!! Can we put this down as a "lifetime" advantage of going to Davidson? Tell him great job!</p>
<p>When you are a resident, intern, or fellow people's lives are at stake.
Period. No comparison. And the same goes for actual doctors.
Also, as far as the admit rate, imagine the national outrage if only 46% of high school students got into college!!!!</p>
<p>Since the GRE is used so differently by the same programs at different universities and by different programs at the same university, it is rare that someone says "Well, I'll take the GRE and see whether I can get into a grad school somewhere."
On average, every resident has been attacked by a patient one time. Hospitals are run by residents on weekends. Make one mistake, and someone may die. Hardly cozy.</p>
<p>We don't want to be like other countries in terms of our medical system, so comparing us to them is not convincing. People over 65 are routinely denied basic operations, so they will come to our country, check into a hotel near a hospital here, stop taking their meds, and show up at the hospital, because their national health does cover such routine operations while abroad.
If you think the wait time to see specialists is bad here, then go to Canada or Scandinavia and try to schedule an angioplasty. You'll be dead before they can fit you in.</p>
<p>Bumping this thread up just because it so thoroughly, probably too thoroughly, went through the pros and cons of "elite" schools over a lifetime, and thought it might be interesting to DuckPondParent and the Safety School Quandary....</p>
<p>How is your daughter at Princeton, Alumother? Time does pass by quickly. Isn't she a sophomore already?</p>
<p>She is a sophomore already, and home for Christmas break. Ah. She's doing great - absolutely loves it. Loves it more than I did. Lotta changes in the last 25 years at Old Nassau. Majoring in psych with a neuroscience certificate. Taking Spanish, Chinese, British History, Neuroscience, and Biology of Populations....almost makes you want to go back to school, huh? Thanks for asking:).</p>
<p>isn't wanting to go back to school ourselves the dirty little not so secret secret beneath much of our parental collegiate eavesdropping?</p>
<p>It is for me.</p>
<p>I am so glad to read the past three posts. Coincidentally, my first child went off to P'ton in September and honestly, I am really jealous. Don't get me wrong, I'm extremely happy for him, but I want to do it all again. It's hard to deal with the reality of being middle aged when I feel inside like I could go off tomorrow and relive it all!</p>
<p>It is just as enjoyable as you can imagine.</p>