"What are You Going to Do After College?"

Parent Cafe
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Career services will NOT find you a job. They will,give you the tools to do that yourself.

You can’t expect the college to land you a job. You CAN get help with resumes, and refining interviewing skills. You can go to recruiting events at your college if the school has them. You can look at potential contacts for jobs in your area of interest.

People get their jobs themselves. Colleges NEVER have guaranteed job placement…never.

Graduating students have FAR better ways to network now than they did in the Stone Age when I graduated. They need to use these tools.

How do you think most people get jobs? How? It’s not just by showing up at the career services office. It’s by sending resumes, contacting people, etc.

Even if your kid’s school has excellent recruiting from companies…your KID still needs to sell themselves to potential employers.

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I love that term “wise wandering!” I tried to explain this to my daughter and now I can attach a name to it. She texted me a little while ago telling me she is not sure what career path to take… she’s really not sure and it changes daily. I told her to enjoy her summer experience and stop worrying.

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In some ways, I think we infantalize college kids too much.

Careerthoughts, I wasn’t suggesting that career services couldn’t use a little improvement…I do get what you’re saying here, and I think you’re right about there being a gap between what career services does for the kids and what they must do on their own.

That said, I don’t think it’s fair to think that most kids catch their break because of family and inside contacts. (not to say this doesn’t happen…but you’re not out of luck if you don’t happen to have these advantages…they can be created)

One thing I think needs to be addressed, particularly with our new millennials…is the skill of being assertive, and creating the contacts you need to go forward. Writing a good email of interest, and continued interest. Contacting researchers who are doing work you admire, just to discuss it. Taking your prof. to coffee to learn more. Write a good thank you note. Volunteer to follow your interests. Do the grunt work in exchange for the opportunity. Asking good questions. Listening to career stories.

it’s true that you need to network. And maybe that’s what the skill career centers should be finding ways to teach…not at the end, when kids are looking for jobs, but in the beginning when they can start creating that web of contacts they’ll need later.

Stuff my kid did to create her own web of contacts for microbiology:

Summer between her highschool graduation and first year of college, she phoned up random people at a biological station near us, explained she was going to college for biology and asked to volunteer. She identified the person she had to impress, and researched that person…read the types of things they’ve studied, read their papers…and had something to talk about when she called them up and begged for volunteer work where she might learn something.

She ended up getting a volunteer position in a lab, did awful jobs…washing lab glassware, mixing media, refilling stock items, (she would have washed floors and taken out trash if it wouldn’t have violated contracted cleaning employees)…the point is, she offered to do the crappiest jobs for free, just to get her foot in the door and look around. She made some great contacts, had some valuable conversations, and learned some really cool skills.

When she started college in the fall, she had those skills and that reference to go after a university lab job that is seldom given to freshman. Again, she researched the people interviewing her, had something intelligent to talk about, and had a bit of luck in that they were looking for someone to maintain fruit fly colonies and she had mastered raising fruit flies in our basement for her own weird experiments. After working at the lab for a while (a paid position, yay!) she asked to be included in lab meetings…where she met more researchers, made more contacts, refined her interests.

The next summer, with paid lab work under her belt…the biological station hired her in a paid position. Again, more researchers, more contacts, bigger network.

It pays to pay attention to your surroundings and to always be friendly. One day she was doing some microscopy work identifying bugs she needed to run DNA samples on…and she started a funny conversation with a man who spoke in broken English. Because of their amiable back and forth…he asked her about the bagel she was eating. “what is this bread doughnut?” He was genuinely curious. So the next day, she brought bagels for the lab. She toasted one, put her favorite cream cheese flavor on it, and gave it to the new researcher. He liked it so much, he tried one of each flavor with different cream cheeses. The next week he brought a dessert for her to try.

To make a long story short, the researcher was a visiting scholar, the head of a major university lab in Brazil who had connection at a rain forest lab in Panama…where he offered to write my daughter a recommendation to work for a summer!

College is more than passing your classes and collecting your degree. it’s your chance to really learn from people. Ask the story of how they ended up in their careers. Ask for advice and mentor-ship. Pay for that advice and mentor-ship by doing crap jobs, or cooking something decent to share, or just being likable and helpful. Find the people doing the job you’d like to do in life, and ask them how they got there.

We need to tell kids how important this research is early…so they don’t waste the many opportunities they have in college to form the networks they need. College is a massive opportunity for this stuff. You can’t wait until the end and say…Oh, I never knew about that. So many kids do. This is a blind spot that could be corrected.

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compmom…you WOULD bring up my hatred for IKEA! LOL:)

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My kid does the networking etc. Her issue is that she seems to think that her career choice needs to be solidified today…

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“Universities are fundamentally places for study”

That’s right.

“they are not places where sector professionals come in to mentor and guide.”

For the most part true.

“Students end up having to beg friends and family for contacts or spam HR, linkedin, and aggregators”

Among other networking methods. Welcome to the real world.

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Kids who are begging friends and family are most definitely NOT using the advice or the help of their career services team. A solid career center is going to help students identify recent alums (not friends, not family) working in the kind of roles the student is interested in learning about- and show them successful ways of getting their foot in the door by leveraging the alumni relationships. A solid career center is going to have names of hundreds of older alums who have signed up to be career mentors to new grads. A solid career center knows which oil companies are hiring, which banks are setting up a new private wealth management operation in Charlotte, which consumer products companies are expanding their financial analyst program AND how to get a job at one of these companies.

Spamming HR is a waste of time. Most of the aggregators are a waste of time (unless the new grad has a very specific career target AND the resume to demonstrate interest/skill in that area). Linkedin is not a waste of time when used appropriately- and career services can teach a student how to use it appropriately.

Parents- you are paying for these career services. If your kid isn’t using what you are paying for, that’s on them. This hiring year (2017) is the best hiring year for new college graduates since 2007. If you have a college junior who hasn’t started thinking about “the future”- get them moving.

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@melvin123 and @thumper1 Finding a career should be as streamlined and enjoyable an experience as completing a university degree. Why do most parents send their children to college if not to prepare them for building a secure and fulfilling career afterwards? Why should we be shy to say that practical considerations are indeed relevant in college choice. Of course, there is the idea of education as an end in itself but, let’s face it, the reality is that most parents are paying more than ever before in the hopes that their children will be highly employable and employed soon after graduation. Don’t get me wrong–career services are full of great people who are supportive and help to the best of their abilities, but because they are not professionals currently in the fields their students aspire to, students then turn to alums. And interfacing with alums can be a hit-or-miss venture. Some are wonderful and generous with their time and energy and even may have some job leads. Others are happy to chat about their work in the most general terms but don’t see students through the long process of securing internships or jobs. I am delighted that your children have done so well, but they are also the lucky ones. The reality is that many grads of top colleges are living with their parents and overwhelmed and demoralized by the job search process. Many with law and other advanced degrees are struggling to pay off their student loans and often forced to spend months, years trying to line up positions they are not even passionate about. Let’s face it–career services may provide some resources, but there is rarely rigorous follow-through and long-term guidance. Students hear different messages from everyone they speak with about what career to choose and how to go about it. The philosophy of going-it-alone is not really empowering grads today–especially in an ever-competitive career landscape where they are up against not only other grads, but against inroads of AI, as well. Having the opportunity to definitively identify one’s intellectual and interpersonal strengths and match those with career aspirations in a systematic manner, and then building long-term relationships with mentors who are personally invested in and actively lobby for students’ success are not just happy circumstances; they are absolutely necessary components for success in today’s job market.

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@Careerthoughts

I don’t agree with you.

Colleges should provide the education to enable a student to have the skillls needed for a job.

It is NOT the college’s responsibility to guarantee job placement. The student needs to be a HUGE player in finding a job. HUGE.

Students need to attend recruiting sessions. They need to be flexible…and open to possibly relocating…or taking a lower level job to gain experience.

Students need to know how to write a cover letter and resume. They need to know how to interview. As someone who hired folks in a previous job…I can tell you…there are plenty of applicants who don’t get past the first screening because of poorly written letters or resumes with missing pieces.

Your lawyer example is a poor one. That field is saturated. Plain and simple. There are just too many schools graduating too many newly minted lawyers. These grads need to figure out how to stand above the other applicants to get a job. The college isn’t going to provide a ladder.

Students need to be assertive in terms if job hunting. They need to start early, and cast a broad net.

They should NOT, in my opinion, expect their college to find them a job…which is what you are implying colleges should do.

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@thumper1 No, I am at all not putting the onus on colleges nor am I putting the onus on students to fend for themselves. Students should have the opportunity to go into the marketplace and find committed and effective career mentorship throughout their job search and beyond, as they establish careers.

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@ChoatieMom West Point! Very impressive, and I’m sure you’re mighty proud of your “kiddo.” Congrats.

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@Careerthoughts , I was saying something a little different. I know a lot of people who were severely disallusioned by their career choices because they had no exposure to jobs in those fields before going to grad school and ending up with 100k loans. My friends have similar experiences. We’ve all taught our kids to be on the lookout for shadowing and internship and networking possibilities from a young age so they can see what different jobs really entail. It wasn’t luck that has led to jobs, or any fancy connections, (again Girl Scouts, the Y, rotary Club etc were a big help). What helped was our kids talking to lots of people, doing volunteer internships, and keeping their eyes open starting freshmen year of high school.

I agree with you that college costs an exorbitant amount and you don’t want your kid graduating and then scooping ice cream for a living. I agree with you that colleges need to have active career counseling centers that focus on career outcomes (after all, how are they supposed to repay student loans?). I think there should be a program from day 1 to help guide the kids into finding a career that is a good fit for them and has an actual need, all while balancing it with the need for a broader liberal arts education since some career fields are hot today and gone tomorrow, so being taught how to learn is critical. I think this should be taken a step further, though, and this needs to start happening at the high school level. Kids come out of high school thinking that since they are good at math, they should be an engineer. Well, did they ever think of being an actuary? Each of these fields uses a lot of math, but each would be taught in a different college within a university. I’m not advocating a system where kids get locked into anything at an early age, I’m just talking about getting the kids some exposure.

Here’s the problem, though. It really has to be the kids who actively engage in the process. Look at the statistics quoted earlier about the number of kids who visit career services. Look at the number of kids who don’t graduate within 6 (!) years. The numbers are shockingly high. Many kids would be better off living at home and working for a couple of years in the real world before going to college so they have a little more maturity and direction.

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I think the question of why some kids fail to launch after college is as complex as why some kids struggle when they move from high school to college.

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lmao… :))

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Careerthoughts- I have no idea where you are getting your information about career services or which colleges you are referring to, but your observations are by no means representative of a really broad chunk of colleges (flagship public U’s, private U’s, LAC’s) who provide exceptional services- but only to kids who tap into their expertise.

Nobody in your kids college is going to show up in their dorm room, drag them out of bed, and introduce them to recruiters who show up on campus every October for their information nights. The issue isn’t that career services doesn’t follow through- it’s the students who can’t be bothered.

My company has a hard and fast “drop date” for resumes for kids applying for entry level jobs. We publicize it everywhere- campus paper, every online career portal at every college where we recruit, signs, social media, our company website, at our “meet and greet” events.

Do you know how many emails we get well after the deadline asking “is it too late to apply? I forgot to submit my resume last week (or last month, or two months ago) but I really, really, really want to work for you”. Thousands. Every year. Do kids not know what a deadline is?

24 hours late because your computer crashed or you were at health services with mono- that’s a grace period we are happy to honor. 48 hours late because you were finishing a take home midterm and had to focus? Happy to honor that.

A month late because you “forgot” ?

And you are criticizing career services for not following up?

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Some kids don’t go to career services…at all.

Some kids go to career services one time…and that’s it. If the visit isn’t perfect…they don’t return.

Some kids actually USE the services provided by career services…things like resumes, setting up a good LinkedIn profile, mock interviews, even how tomdress for interviews. All of these things are important…and can’t be done in ONE visit to career services.

Some kids go to recruiting events at their colleges. Some go to job fairs.

But just going isn’t enough. The student needs to have personal follow through with the process. Without that, visiting career services isn’t going to be as much help.

I do think looking at the career services offerings at colleges IS important. See what schools offer in terms of services. Look at who recruits at the colleges. These things will help your student IF your student uses these services wisely.

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My daughter utilized the career services office at her large flagship university. She attended seminars, she had her resume reviewed and tweaked every semester, she did practice interviews and elevator pitches. When a particular prospective employer required a specific, unusual form of resume, the career services office helped her with it (though they’d never seen what was requested before, either). Because she was signed up with career services, she got e-mails notifying her of particular companies who were recruiting or holding events on campus. She attended the university’s large career fairs when they didn’t conflict with her class schedule (they often did, so she’d only get to spend an hour or so).

Despite that, and despite applying for hundreds of positions and having a stellar GPA, she never found a summer internship or job in her field during undergrad. It’s hard to use those interview skills the career services office helps you with if you never score an interview. Most of the kids she knew in her field who got internships had contacts - and I’m sure better networking skills than my daughter had. When the time came to get a permanent job, though, she had more success. She found a position through a posting on Indeed, interviewed and was offered the job. After she’d already accepted (in early February), she started hearing back from other prospective employers, was given referrals from professors and suddenly was hearing about all kinds of opportunities she never had previously. My conclusion, based solely on her experience, was that it’s easier to find a permanent job when you’re on the verge of graduation than it is to get internships and summer positions.

Did anyone else’s child have that experience - barely a nibble for internships and summer positions, but much more activity when it came time to look for the permanent job?

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D never went to career services. She did take full advantage of tutoring, the writing center, and other assistance provided at her university. Why didn’t she use the career services center? Because she was applying to graduate programs. Her mentors in her department helped her through that process - don’t know about other schools, but her schools career services center is not prepared to help with grad school applications. She needed help by people who knew the different programs at different universities in her very niche major. She managed to get several fully funded offers. One of her friends also never used the career services center, as she is spending a year working for Teach for America.

Yes, some kids don’t take advantage of what is offered, but there is a small segment of students many career centers aren’t designed to serve.

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One of my kids had summer things everynsummer…but they were auditioned music programs…and had nothing to do with career services.

The other kid applied for summer internships, but never had one…so worked for her college for two summers full time.

One had a job right out of grad school…the other went into the Peace Corps.

Both used the career services offices at their colleges to get their resumes done, review essays, and create LinkedIn profiles…which both were required to do anyway for some class.

Neither one exoected career services to find them a job…either in summer or after graduation. But they did use the service for information purposes.

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Networking these days is absolutely key and it can happen in the funniest ways. My son interviewed for an internship that he had heard about from a friend and applied for, got an interview and thought the interview went well. He met the proposed manager and the HR person took him through a swingby of the head office and he met and shook hands with the CEO. He had gone to high school with the CEO’s kid and mentioned that and they chatted briefly according to my son. The very next night we were at a Christmas party at a friends’ home - kids, adults, everybody, just one major huge party…and in walks that CEO…a person neither my husband or I knew personally but a friend of a friend type thing - and our family happened to be standing near the door because we had just arrived. The CEO takes one look at my son, laughs and says “you’ll have an offer in your email tomorrow” and he did…so nobody should joke about networking and connections…it’s alive and it gets you jobs. Kids should tell everyone, friends, adults they know, everyone that they are looking for a job, an internship etc. Everybody knows someone who knows someone and all that.

My other son got his post-college job because of a high school friend. She had graduated with the same degree at a different university, interned at a company and got hired after graduation. My son mentioned on social media that he was looking for a job and she contacted him and said they had an opening and he should interview. 5 people got flown in for interviews and he got hired…because she recommended him and they liked her and that was the tip. Same with my oldest, he got his job because he knew someone from college a couple years older that had gone to work for that organization and that friend recommended him and that was the tip. So all 3…networking. And yes, they had career services polish up their resumes in college. None of them needed help interviewing because they had been doing that since their teen jobs but it is networking that got them hired and I will never be convinced that jobs are gotten easier without networking.