My recent graduate had internship offers fall semester of sophomore and junior years and job offer in hand prior to senior year starting. ( all obtained through his school’s career fair )However, he’s in a field that offers a lot of intern opportunities and hires out of the post junior year internships. But, he’s a go getter and took full advantage of what his university had to offer from career services to joining groups that focused on careers. Prior to starting school
he was told by the college he had been admitted to that his resume was due before school started and to make sure he brought a suit. They were encouraged to attend the fall career fair- it was to get them used to going not necessarily to find them an internship following freshman year.
He was very focused on where he wanted to be after graduation and his cohort of friends at school were just like him. But, I can see this plan does not work for every student.
Waiting until senior year to visit career services is a mistake as is not pursuing internship possibilities during one’s college years- even if you don’t land an internship the student should keep trying.
I also believe some work experience on the resume prior to starting college helps a bit.
What I am from some is an attempt to encourage students to work within the existing system, whatever flaws it may have. What I propose reimagines a new system in which students are able to find systematic career coaching and placement outside of college career services, so that they feel empowered rather than frustrated in their career search. What might things look like if figuring out what career you would like to pursue and what job you’d like after college were not a fraught enterprise? What if there were recruiters who were not working for companies, but working for our own children? What if finding a career were as seamless as ordering on Amazon? Would we ever want to return to the struggle of comparison shopping at four different bricks-and-mortar retailers and then hauling heavy packages to our homes? We no longer see the virtue of the latter option, even though 30 years ago it was the norm; we only see the efficiency and ease of Amazon. Why can’t one of the most important processes of our children’s lives–finding a career–be seamless as well? Don’t our children deserve that? Shouldn’t we dare to imagine how things could be different and then demand that?
@melvin123 Kids would still talk to lots of people, but they would talk “smart,” utilize their time effectively. The institution of the university is not the optimal place for students to search for careers for the reason I mentioned in an earlier post and which many posts from others here confirm: namely, that the best guidance for our children comes from selected sector professionals with real-world experience that informs their mentorship process. College career counselors have been working as career counselors, not as sector professionals, and, although well-meaning and intelligent, they cannot bring as much value to a student’s job search as those who actually work in the field the student is keen on. That is simply a fact. I agree 100% with you that the career exploration process should begin in high school, I just believe that that process should be part of an organized and efficient ecosystem. Kids would still be empowered, just not disillusioned or lost.
@blossom Kids are absolutely overwhelmed with work at college. The ones I know (at Ivies and top-ranked unis) miss deadlines not because they are careless but because they are overcommitted to their 5/6 classes, extracurriculars, and already sleep 4 hours a night. Why should they spend more precious time on drawn-out hit-or-miss networking and repeat visits to career counseling?
My oldest is at an elite school and I am blown away at the career services. His exact quote was “You would have to put some serious effort into it to leave here without a couple of job offers.” He has a career adviser that he met with during the first couple weeks of freshman year and meets with regularly for interview help, resume stuff, and job ideas. He belongs to several preprofessional clubs that regularly have speakers. He gets alerts almost every day about companies coming to campus to interview. The school has programs for just about every kind of kid, if you want IB/MBB, med school, law school, grad school, TFA, whatever you are looking for they have a program to help you get there. They also have literally thousands of internships available. Their career services department is a model of efficiency and worth its weight in gold.
My elite flagship alma mater had a room with a bunch of 3 ring binders in it with company info and a work study kid sitting in the back making sure nobody stole anything. I went in their once and got so disillusioned that I decided to go to grad school.
Having the ability to do 2-3 co-ops at Northeastern was the driving factor in my son’s decision to enroll there. We went to a prospective student day and listened to one kid talk about his experiences with the co-op system. He tried out 2 different jobs with 2 different companies and hated them both. He realized he just did not have the interest in the field that he thought he did. So he tried a 3rd co-op and it was a total match and he loved it. He worked hard and learned a lot. He did not get a job there immediately, but the firm contacted him a short bit after graduation and made him an offer. He took it, and has been happy since. He said he knew countless people that went thru a similar process.
That really stuck a chord with my son, who knows he wants to focus on a business career, but just not sure where to start. I’m hoping the co-op and academic advisors can help steer him in the right direction. I would’ve liked that when I was younger. Instead I tried a few jobs that I really disliked and was miserable for several years out of school. The funny part is I was accepted to NEU too back in the day, but I chose another school and it certainly did not help me figure anything out.
There are more and more colleges and universities trying to arrange internships for undergrads these days, and hopefully more students will find jobs that are satisfying at the time of graduation.
Careerthoughts- I am assuming that you are a parent.
If the impetus for your initial post is that your kids are complaining about how hard and time-consuming the job search process is- you are falling for it hook, line and sinker.
If you actually believe that a kid who is overwhelmed with work at a top school cannot find 30 seconds to upload a resume to an online mailbox-- wow. We don’t ask kids to submit their resume by snail mail, or to walk it over to career services, or to fax it to us (all common methods within the last 30 years). We ask them to upload it to a mailbox.
How this is more time consuming than any of the other things college kids have time for- I cannot fathom. But you are being sold a bill of goods.
And your criticism of the folks who work in career services is also off-base.
Are your kids now looking for a job and finding the advice from their career services team misaligned? Are they actually putting any work into the process of discovering what comes next? Doesn’t sound like it. It has never been easier to get the names of 15-20 alums who want to help and mentor young grads who are interested in their field. Never been easier. If your kids cannot bring themselves to tap into this resource- that’s on them.
And the idea that kids have to “visit” career services is also out of date by at least 10 years. Many of the services are virtual (i.e. log on from your dorm). How hard is it to get a password and open up the site?
“Finding a career should be as streamlined and enjoyable an experience as completing a university degree.”
Yes, and millions of dollars should rain down on me while I sit on my butt at home, but sadly, dreams and reality are not the same.
“Students should have the opportunity to go into the marketplace and find committed and effective career mentorship throughout their job search and beyond, as they establish careers.”
And students do. Is anyone denying you from finding a mentor? On the other hand, no one is entitled to a mentor either.
"Why should they spend more precious time on drawn-out hit-or-miss networking and repeat visits to career counseling? "
Because they want a job? Maybe they shouldn’t overcommit.
@notveryzen: “My elite flagship alma mater had a room with a bunch of 3 ring binders in it with company info and a work study kid sitting in the back making sure nobody stole anything. I went in their once and got so disillusioned that I decided to go to grad school.”
Check back there now. You really can’t compare across generations.
Meeting deadlines is a life skill. No excuses.
Big universities are going to have career fairs for government, not-for-profit, foreign service, education and ed reform, etc. in addition to the banking and corporate job fairs. Some colleges team up with others in the area to do really big events with a theme- careers in technology, careers in cybersecurity, careers for students interested in public affairs and government.
It is NOTHING like when I was in college (the 1970’s) where the only companies which came on campus were the big banks and some insurance companies. You wanted to work at a think tank? Good luck. You wanted a job in television or advertising? Let us know how that works out. You wanted to apply for the Peace Corps? Career services gave you an address and you sent away for an application by mail- maybe you got the application back in a month.
The OP doesn’t seem very familiar with the way things work today.
@careerthoughts, the big difference between school and employment is that school is for the benefit of the student, but employment is for the benefit of the employer.
So I don’t think your idealized system of career choice has much chance of happening.
The biggest problem is the fluff degrees that are being obtained. Reading degrees offered at many schools I often thing “whats the point”.
Go in the right major you fine get a fluff degree its exactly that expensive fluff that is not transferable to any real world decent paying skillset.
@MaryGJ “unmarketable degree” that is the problem. I work for a Fortune 25 company we just hired a slew of recent grads all engineers mech, ee, industrial, all from normal run of the mill schools for entry level positions paying 65k-70k in the south.
Matters more than ever to major in something marketable.
@hannuhylu I think this depends on the student. I know kids who had “reading degree” majors and had jobs lined up when they graduated.
I typed that wrong. I wasnt calling out “reading degrees” I meant looking at all of the fluff degrees available people need to be wise in their choice. Often these fluff degrees are worthless at the undergrad level…literally you can do nothing but be a barista at Starbucks (exaggerate a little).
Our S got all his internships and jobs on his own–no connections from us. He attended all the career fairs his U offered in his department. One of his internships was from his 6th grade teacher – he helped with a robotics program for kids. One was from a friend from middle school --he helped at a lab at our instate U, and one was at NASA–he applied and got it wholly on his own. He did major in EE, both because he likes it and is good at it and because it’s marketable.
He entered college thinking about what he’d do after graduating, but he’s always looked forward and been very practical.
D, on the other hand has gotten her cinema degree and is still puzzling what to do next after she gives cinema a whirl. It is an evolving process.
@hannuhylu LOL I was wondering what a “reading degree” was. I do know students who graduated with degrees in history, sociology etc and had jobs lined up at graduation. Others go to grad school.
@blossom I am in fact intimately familiar with the current state of affairs at college career services. Yes, of course, they have made great strides since the 1970s, but, even at the top unis, students wonder in confusion which career fair booths or concurrent company presentations they should “hit” first, crowd into small gaggles of eager classmates, jockeying for precious face- and small-talk time with company reps. Of course, companies all present their best faces, which makes it very difficult for students to get a sense of what jobs are “really” like. Then recruiters at these firms may or may not respond to students. Company employees are often so overwhelmed they have no time to adequately mentor individual students; students are lucky if they receive an email response. It’s a total circus. Of course there are many postings on the uni job boards nowadays, but, as with internet dating, the sheer mass of possibilities overwhelms. In this scenario, no one is directly and passionately advocating for the student. Who is spending time thinking carefully, rigorously, and patiently about who the specific student is, trying to find convergence for his or her passions with his or her skills?
@Marian An effective streamlined replacement for the current college-based career services already exists. The painstaking time-consuming process of career search as it currently exists in unis will soon be as obsolete as the horse-and-buggy.
" no one is directly and passionately advocating for the student"…huh? The student needs to advocate for him/herself. Plenty of students find jobs this way. I’m wondering if you care to share a little more from your personal story as to your line of thinking.
Who here among the 'rents had one job or even one career that they began right out of college and continued until they retired? I would venture that this is less than 25%. It hasn’t gone that way for the last couple of generations. I’ve used this metaphor before. A career is a ‘climbing wall.’ Not even a ladder with well-defined and reachable steps up a specific hierarchy.
As a climbing wall, a career is something one begins, but to advance further one may have to make a sideways move, or a downward move, or even “get off the wall” for a spell perhaps for more training, relocating, or addressing family contingencies. A good starting job might provide contacts and experience that will not only pay the rent but make opportunities for subsequent job changes.
My son has had 3 or 4 jobs (employers) in the last 15 years while broadening his experience and building an excellent career b/c he’s ambitious, energetic, and willing to learn new things. My daughter “got off the wall” and went back to school for another degree, and thus made a career course correction. Numerous employers and consultancies along the way, but after 12 years now a large employer and interesting job that brings much of her experience and training together.
I have had the same career for almost 30 years. It allowed me an enormous amount of flexibility while raising my kids and for that I am grateful. I have had different jobs… but all within the same field.
This thread illustrates the importance of reconciling one’s expectations with reality. If employment is important to your family post-graduation then I believe you need a plan. If even with a plan and good execution there is no internship/job, then modify the plan and execute it. In both cases the student must engage in the process. Procrastination can sabotage the goal.
In many ways it’s similar to college admissions. Successful employment outcomes may be trending toward earlier preparation than was needed in the past.
This thread also identifies a sometimes undervalued area when comparing different colleges…career services. We tend to accept job placement statistics with little thought. I admit we did. However, as I was participating in a different thread, the topic of job placement arose. There was a discrepancy between a particular school’s job placement stat versus my anecdotal experience with friends and neighbors. On the surface it was not that important but it did pique my interest.
So hypothetically speaking, is a college that says 95% of the graduating class has found employment from a student response rate of 71%, “better” than a school with a 90% job placement with a 90% response rate? In my mind the stat used for comparing the two schools seems suspect. As a parent comparing schools, I feel the job placement stats should be qualified with the response rate explicitly stated…to do otherwise seems a bit disingenuous. I could be completely off-base with the whole issue, and if so, I apologize. But from my cursory look at some rankings, I question it.
My point is that maybe people look at these ‘suspect’ high job placement stats and it contributes to an unrealistic expectation of employment.
To the OP, here are a few of my thoughts on post-graduation employment.
– A student has to prioritize it and put forth the effort. As others have said, career services can be a great asset if utilized.
– I would counter that a student who “doesn’t know what they’re good at or what professional field to focus on” did not use their time wisely. Interests may change, but I would expect some self awareness…or maybe look at it in a different way, knowing what they aren’t good at or dislike.
– The internet is a wonderful tool for researching careers, contacting possible employers (yay, no typewriter and treks to the post office!), and basically getting smarter. Having personal connections can be helpful, but isn’t necessary. My son was able to secure a summer internship as a rising junior from sending (a lot of) applications and resumes while studying abroad. It took a lot of time to nail one down (in finance), but fortunately it worked out for him. And just last week he received a summer internship offer for next summer (Big 4 Accounting) based off a leadership conference he applied to in the Fall. Honestly, it surprised me how early some companies try to lock in prospective employees.
– Lastly, I would argue that even the ‘confused job fair experience’ has value. Both of my children went to the Fall career fair on campus as freshmen. They were told to dress professionally and have a resume. Very few companies were looking at freshman, but Career Services provided a list of some companies that would collect their resume and ‘shake their hand’. It was tough. Neither enjoyed it, but I firmly believe that standing in a long line for the maybe ‘1 minute face time’ was a good lesson on so many levels.
It gave them a view of the competition for jobs. It gave them an idea of the importance of their resume and their physical presence. You can tell 18 year olds about job hunting, but the reality of seeing your older peers jockeying for employment can be enlightening. To top it off, their Career Services told them that after freshman year they should take off their high school accomplishments…the reaction to that, by my kids, was “OMG!” It was a motivator and happened perhaps 4 weeks into their first semester on campus. I realize there is a lot of variation between schools and colleges, but we were/are extremely pleased with the Career Services at our public state flagship university.