<p>I agree that there may be more behind the numbers that meets the eye. There may well be valid explanations for the decrease in aid other than bait and switch … and certainly a difference of a few % points may well be due to other reasons. Data without context is just data, and it’s not all that useful.</p>
<p>What’s insidiious about this particular situation that caused me to start this thread is that what the particular college is doing would not show up easily in the common data sets. This student is getting the same package as the year before. It’s just that a big chunk of grants is being converted to self help. It’s particulalrly nasty in that the first year package was very sweet with no self help in it at all. Just grants, so it would look really good next to a college that does have some loans, WS in there. The next year, the kid is zapped with $10K in loans and $4K of work study. instead of that self help spread out between two years. If that’s not bait, I don’t know what is, and that is a switch that was made as well. Classic bait and switch under the radar.</p>
<p>I think people who experience this need to expose the school name - others will be forewarned (and the school may need to change its policies if students say no thanks).</p>
<p>I want to add that when it’s the private univesities using their own money, IMO it’s their business what they do with it. Where I get hot is when I see state schools that are doing this with low income kids. Also packaging PLUS loans as if they are guaranteed financial aid and giving “awards” that are mostly all entitlements as though the school is giving them anything. </p>
<p>Now I can get on my soapbox and into my spiel of how I believe privates shouldn’t even be getting federal money, and those dollars should be going to the public schools, but that too is a whole other story.</p>
<p>Ah, then you would be a fan of Hillsdale?</p>
<p>In the early 90’s when I worked at a SUNY college close to my hometown, I would see about 5 students a year just from my little village transferring into that SUNY from Private schools. They had gotten the aid to pay for one or two years at their Private school, and then aid was cut. Most had good gpa’s, but were not financially able to make up the difference in loss of aid. I remember one girl telling me “I loved my school and would have done anything to stay there. But now after 2 years of paying high tuition I’m going to get a SUNY degree but have a Private school loan debt.” Like I said, this was going on 20 years ago. And nothing against the SUNY school, most that transferred wished they would have started there to avoid debt and after being there awhile they realized it was a great school.</p>
<p>Or Grove City, once upon a time when it wasn’t taking federal aid? No, it’s the policy as it exists, more than the schools that take advantage of it. Of course, they should take the money. Most of the time, programs immediately get integrated with federal entitlements and availabilities and I expect this to happen. I don’t think the government should be giving the money to these schools. It would force some more realistic pricing. It’s pretty clear that the everything from PELL which is set up so it deesn’t have to be integrated into a fin aid package (when have you seen it not ?) to PLUS and other loans which are not even necessarily available to everyone being stuck into aid packages as thought the schools themselves are giving that money. </p>
<p>I see some private schools,particularly in the midwest, where 90% of the kids are on financial aid. Really? I think the schools is just adjusting its prices to put its mouth on the federal teat.</p>
<p>I think what’s been going on lately is a lot of schools have had to cut back on aid packages but they don’t want this to get out so they are carefully, selectively, sticking it to whoever they think won’t complain or transfer out. Even if someone does transfer out, it’s almost better for a school that is selective because they can always fill a spot with a transferee who expects no financial aid. </p>
<p>And I think initially, when they make financial aid offers to incoming freshmen, they give more generous offers to the kids they want to lure away from other schools. I think the financial aid office must work closely with admissions and have a pretty clear read on: if we give this kid $X, will he still come here, or do we have to give him $X+Y to get him to consider us? Whereas with other kids whose stats are more in the middle of accepted students stats, they may figure out they can get away with giving minimal or no aid and the kid will still accept.</p>
<p>What amazes me is that there isn’t more transparency with this system.</p>
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<p>Pish!!</p>
<p>In schools that give a lot of instiutional aid, and are need blind in the admissions process, admissions and financial aid operate as 2 separate functions. Admissions officers have no idea as to how much a student needs to attend school and it is not a factor in admitting the student (definition of need blind process ). After students are admitted, then a financial aid package is put together for the student (at the on-set, the FA office collects info from all students).</p>
<p>However, when schools are need aware or need sensitive, when it comes to 2 similarly qualified applicants the school probably will end up giving the tip to the student that needs less of the schools resources. Some schools without deep pockets may feel that it is more financially fesible to discount 5 full pay families with $10 scholarship than to award 1- 50k need based package.</p>
<p>That is not to say in the financial review, appeal process that amonst peer schools, that financial aid people don’t look at what they can offer, while still remaining with in their budget to woo a student from another school.</p>
<p>Sybbie is absolutely right, in most of the schools. Sometimes, yes, the admissions and finaid could be the same department, but in most cases, they are not. </p>
<p>I know that at some schools where enrollment management is important, those who are admitted by admission are still given the admissions decision without regard to financial need, but the officers will “rate” each accepted applicant. For those who don’t need financial aid, the ratings are superfluous except in terms for maybe some special accepted student day events that some school host for their top accepted kids, and of course for merit money if that is in play. But for those with need, the rating can mean the difference between getting an “accept-deny” aid package and a full need met award with little self help and gradation in between those etremes.</p>
<p>Dodgersmom, no. that would be incorrect. It is not a contractual issue, as each year stands alone and aid is limited in writing to the year in question. And you can bet that there is a disclaimer in there that there can be no future expectations on the part of the student regarding financial aid. </p>
<p>Now you would be correct if the students gets an offer, accepts it, and in reliance attends the University, and then the offer were revoked in October, with a request that the student pay more.</p>
<p>In my experience with Financial Aid having worked for many Universities the best option would be to appeal and get a more clear cut reason. Any student should should be granted as understandable of an answer as possible.</p>
<p>I’m hoping the member who PMed me is reading all of this. Just to make this clear, the appeal to fin aid had been made and that avenue seems to be dead end. As far as fin aid is concerned, and yes, that is the way it shows up on the common data and any tracking, the aid is the same. It’s an ethical issue here and those who work in this field, those who have seen a lot of packages seem to feel what happened crosses the gray area lines even. There are plenty of gray areas, and for some, you just put your hands up, because that 's just the way it works, BUt I felt that here, there were some ethical issues that the school administration outside of fin aid should be aware of. Somethings are clearly just not right unless some good reason is there. None was given.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse - </p>
<p>The member who PM’d you with this story still hasn’t spoken up herself or, to the best of my knowledge, even revealed to you the name of the school. Clearly, you’re only getting one side of the story . . . but the prolonged silence is making me wonder if perhaps there aren’t some holes in the story.</p>
<p>I wonder if there wasn’t a late filing or other circumstance, as suggested above, that may have triggered the unexpected change.</p>
<p>I hadn’t thought about this, but my second kid had some institutional money transferred to the “self help” category sophomore year. We don’t get much aid so the amount wasn’t huge, but I remember it ticked me off because essentially it increased my out of pocket funds since there was no way for my son to ‘suddenly’ make more money at the time the tuition bill was due and it happened the year I was unemployed and looking for change in the couches. I asked the finaid office what happened and they said the “scholarship” was decreased by the college due to funding issues so they simply gave him work/study in lieu. I think it happens and it is yet another reason for families not to “cut it close” on what they can afford.</p>
<p>Thank you everyone for your answers. Thanks cptofthehouse!!
The story: my son was accepted to an out of state university (Virginia) last year and was given a full ride (full Pell, University grants, SEOG, the lot!). My son is a very good student, not a genius but a good student. Last year my EFC was 0, this year it went up to $433.00
His new financial aid packege went down by $14,000. They put on loans and work study. Work study= $4,000 loans (including Perkings)= $10,000. No parent loans. All the finacial aid paper work was done ahead of time. They did ask for tax trabscripts, which I gave them with plenty of time. My son did send an email asking for reason in the change of the financial aid packet. I don’t know if there is anything I can do!!!</p>
<p>This was their response:</p>
<p>Thanks for writing. As you may have seen, financial aid awards may change from year to year as your familys financial situation changes. Increases to a familys income, for instance, may cause a student to have less eligibility for need-based resources in a subsequent year. Ive looked into your file and believe that the following information may help you to understand your financial aid eligibility for the upcoming academic year.</p>
<p>You may know that institutions may take into consideration more than what is asked on the FAFSA, and may also use their own formula (including assessment rates and allowances) to determine a students demonstrated financial need. This allows for the school to incorporate more complete financial data into the calculation. Based on the information within your 2013-2014 application, combined with financial aid packaging policies and all applicable federal, state and institutional regulations (which are subject to change from year to year), you did not meet the criteria to be awarded an all-grant package for 2013-2014. As you have seen, you qualify for less in the ??? grant than you did previously. However, your need has been met with other resources including the Federal Pell Grant, Federal Work Study, the Federal Subsidized Loan and the Perkins Loan. All of these are resources that will help you to meet your educational expenses for 2013-2014.</p>
<p>Even though you do not meet the low income criteria for 2013-2014, you are eligible for substantial aid including attractive educational loans and work study, which you may accept, reduce or decline through ???. Should you require any assistance in doing this, please do not hesitate to let us know.</p>
<p>I hope that this information helps you to understand why your financial aid eligibility may have changed from 2012-2013 to 2013-2014. Know that students must reapply for financial aid every year. I encourage you to make sure that you meet all application requirements and deadlines every year that you wish to be considered for aid. Please feel free to contact Student Financial Services if you have any questions or additional concerns.</p>
<p>Although you’ve told us the change in your federal EFC, you have not told us what the the actual change in your income was. What was the income you declared last year (when your son received the generous awards), and what was it this year? The important thing here is your INCOME, not the federal EFC.</p>
<p>Once you tell us your actual income figures, you’re going to need to write back to the person who sent you this letter, and ask him or her to explain to you exactly what the criteria were to qualify as “low income” for 2013-14. And what were they for 2012-13? What was the maximum allowable income each year?</p>
<p>Keep everything in writing - you need to have a record of everything they tell you. It seems likely that the school changed the criteria you needed to meet to qualify as “low income.” If it was a significant change, I’d complain. Start with the person you’re dealing with now (after you get their answer) . . . but then move up the “food chain” to people with more authority. When you get to that point, we can advise you whom to write to.</p>
<p>But start by getting more information - and let us know what he or she says.</p>
<p>The letter to me, is a bunch of gobbldygoop, of generalities that may or may not affect the OP’s situation. I think, however, the key to this puzzle is in another thread on this board. UVA now has dropped their no loan policy. I guess that those who thought that current students not affected are wrong, as this shows.</p>
<p>What I have seen in school packages that use PROFILE is that often they do not give specific expected contributions. They just give the package and what ever is left is the parent’s and student’s expected contributions.</p>
<p>It looks like the school gave you your answer</p>
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<p>There could be any number of things that no longer make you eligible for the program that your son was accepted to freshman year. While you state that your FAFSA EFC only went up by $433 based on the federal methodology, once the school looked at your CSS profile, tax transcripts, they felt, that you made too much money to get 100% instiutional money (which at the end of the day, they decide how to disburse their money).</p>
<p>Another thing to take into consideration, as posted in another thread, UVA can no longer afford to have no-loans in their financial aid packages. </p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1536808-uva-ends-loan-free-fin-aid-program.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1536808-uva-ends-loan-free-fin-aid-program.html</a></p>
<p>So previously where students previously had a 0 contribution or self help in their financial aid, starting with the incoming class of 2014, they will now have a student contribution loans in their package. While you may think that on face, this does not affect your child, I beleive that the UVA is going to be even more stringent when it comes to determining current students who meet the criteria for no-loans, no self help in their FA packages.</p>
<p>As a sophomore student, your son can borrow up to $6500 in the direct(stafford loan program). In addition he got a $3500 perkins loan. The interest on $7500 of the loans are subsidized while your son is in school.</p>
<p>UVA felt that the alternative to students being stakeholders in thr funding of their own education would have been to cut the amount of aid given to OOS students if they were going to continue the program. If this had been the choice, you would have been left with a gap in the financial aid package.</p>
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<p>Part of me feels that as one of only 2 public universities in the country that meets 100% demonstrated need for OOS students as well as in-state studens (where most public universities don’t even meet 100% need for in-state students), their back was kind of on the wall. I think they are suffering a little from no good deed goes unpunished.</p>
<p>Look at the glass half full in stead of half empty. If at the end of 4 years, your child graduates with 30k debt on a ~200k education, he is still in a very good position. I am willing to bet money, that there is not a big cost differential between going to UVA and attending your in-state university as a residential student.</p>
<p>While you may not be happy with your aid package, only you and your son can decide if going back to UVA is “worth it.” </p>
<p>GO through your financial aid package to make sure that all of the direct costs are covered. Hopefully your son was working and saving $$ over the summer.</p>
<p>Son may have to do some belt tightening to bring down the indirect cost and reduce some of this 44 self help (most of which goes toward indirect costs). While he may not have held an on-campus job last year, he may have to get one this year.</p>