What can we do to support African American students and their families?

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Regarding terminology that may be confusing to new users (particularly those outside of the historical demographics of these forums), there exists https://insights.collegeconfidential.com/common-acronyms-abbreviations-used-college-confidential-forums , but some of them are incorrect, incomplete, or obsolete. And the designated thread to suggest changes is locked: http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/community-forum-issues/2021886-common-acronyms-and-abbreviations-used-in-the-college-confidential-forums.html .

If you get an expert or two on the site they could create their own “Class of 20__” threads similar to the Parents, the med school applicants, and whoever else has one. Being part of a group of peers is a huge benefit.

Literally, many of these kids (and their parents) know nothing about what to do and it gets overwhelming to them. They don’t know the terminology used, they don’t know any sort of timeline, they don’t know what a target SAT/GPA is for any particular school - or even how to sign up for the SAT. They worry about costs and generally don’t know there are ways to qualify for help - even for the SAT. They need someone who cares to set deadlines, assist with searching, proofreading, moral support, and anything else one can think of. You can’t know what you haven’t experienced.

At our school guidance counselors (and some teachers) try to help, but they have over a hundred kids per class each including behavior problems. There’s only so much hand holding they can do. We used to have a person dedicated just to help students with college funded by one of those Teach For America places (not that one, but similar - I just forgot the name). Two of these people were good, one left a bit to be desired. Then the funds dried up. They tried to put the salary into the budget, but the community wouldn’t support it, so now there’s no one.

We’re a statistically average school or maybe slightly above. Imagine what happens at the below average schools.

Questbridge is out there, but only for the top. If cc can do anything to help more, it’s a plus. It’s critical to stop those who diss folks though. As I said before, I’ve tried to send kids to cc and those who looked told me the site wasn’t for them. We have a different socio-economic group and very few head toward Top 20 schools. Some do, but those don’t have the issues I’m talking about. They generally have parents who know things coupled with being self motivated knowing they’ll fit in just fine.

If there is one thing that we have learned from Facebook, it is that people are willing to reveal a great deal about themselves for free if they get some benefit out of it for free.

Can this model be applied to CC? It’s a separate question of whether it should be, but hold that thought. Suppose when a new person logged onto CC for the first time, they had to fill out a short profile:

Name:
Classification: {Student, Parent of HS student, Parent of College student}

For students or parents of HS students
School:
Grade:
Race: State this is optional, but improves the advice given

And with just that much information, along with location information, you now have some very useful information to work with. You know:

  • If it's someone who needs advice, or someone who can offer advice
  • The type of advice that can be offered. You know that with a 9th grade student or parent of one, you can start with advice about how to plan out their HS courses, whereas for a 12th grader you can only help with things like college deadlines, etc.
  • The demographics of where they come from, such as overall racial composition of the school, income of the town, etc.

And later on, start gathering information on classes taken and grades in those classes. Over time, you have enough information to be directing them towards the most useful advice.

The above list gives the connotation that race or ethnicity is the or one of the most important factors in college selection and admissions, which appears to be a common belief here, but can be less than desirable to promote, especially since it is often not true.

Better would be if students or parents looking for college selection or admission advice include the following:

  • Current grade level
  • Unweighted HS GPA and SAT / ACT scores if available
  • Domestic, international, or other status
  • State of residency
  • Importance of college cost and affordability
  • Student's intended or possible majors, or range of possible majors if undecided

For most college bound students, the above are likely far more important than the student’s race or ethnicity.

How about making it optional instead of required.

I’d skip school. That can get too personal and isn’t really necessary.

I’d add State and Goals - for the latter offering some suggestions like Community College, 4 Year School, Pre-med, Music - whatever some of the popular items are when it comes to cc having advice they can offer.

I’d also ask if this is a first time student or parent when it comes to college.

From the data supplied you could have one of those (hopefully) paid monitors (or volunteers) look at the info and see if they thought it was worthy to send them a private message directing them to a forum or thread or even personal help from a trusted volunteer/expert - whatever seemed to fit.

I like the suggestions that you and @ucbalumnus provided.

If the goal is to help hundreds of thousands of new students each year, this doesn’t scale well. What scales better is providing a context-sensitive set of guidelines and a searchable FAQ that you ask people to review before asking for personal help.

What about having a place where the student could submit and essay for review. Perhaps there are folks who would be willing to read these essays and offer suggestions? I’ve seen threads where kids have asked for help with an essay and the responses were very positive.

One problem with publicly posting essays is that they are then easily plagiarized (and a college admission reader seeing two of the same or very similar essay may not be able to tell which one is the original).

The other issue is, unless the essay reviewer is or was an admission reader at the target college, the essay reviewer’s evaluation may not match that of an actual admission reader at the target college.

Not very “confidential” if we are giving out the name of the high school

No reason to publicly post the essay–use a PM or email to send the reader a copy of the essay.

That isn’t the kind of help I had in mind–I think that many kids could use a proofreader or an editor to point out any typos, spelling or grammar errors. Even simple comments on the flow of the essay, whether the ideas are clear, etc. etc.

I supported the suggestion to remove that question.

Let us, once again, return to the purpose of this thread. While the idea of general help for students who are applying to colleges is laudable, it does not address the particular issues faced by Black high school students who are looking to apply to college or who are in college.

I would like to bring up some experiences which helped this white boy to understand better the nature of discrimination. People need to experience the emotional underside of discrimination. It is not just about the economic hardships of black people, oriental people, American Indians or any other cultural subgroup. It is about perspective and feelings which are passed along to all of us as a function of our cultural upbringing and experiences. In different ways, most of us have experienced it in some form in the course of our life experiences. We need to identify those feelings as the universal source of discrimination.

The easiest analogy I can bring up to clarify my point, is the learning experience of a foreign language. My very favorite word in German is “Gemuetlichkeit.” In this one expression you are being reminded of good food, good close family and friends gathered around a warm holiday fire. The word has legs and feelings of its own. Words bring feelings!

“Whitee” and the “N” word are more than letters. They have a long history of emotions and experiences. Depending on your experiences, they carry different emotions… some more intense that others.

Irish and Italian immigrants arrived in large numbers in Boston in the 18 and early 19 hundreds. Catholics were looking for a higher academic home and, frankly, Harvard was avoiding them. This was all documented in the BC Alumni magazine about ten years ago. Harvard was sure there was no way BC graduates could ever become lawyers at Harvard so BC added their own law school… a very highly regarded law school today. What were the feelings of those rejected immigrants. They did not arrive with fancy jobs and education. Today, they run the city!

While resting under a water bag in basic US Army training in 1968, I overheard two Black companions talking about their neighborhood good times in their memberships in just they same way my Fraternity brothers exchanged their social experiences in college. They were drafted out of Harlem. I was drafted out of a small, all white town in MA. To me, this was an “mindopener.” They were us!

Years later I was assigned the job of minority recruiter in a virtually all white STEM University. There were no Black administrators on Campus so off I went to a national black college conference in DC. I was the only white person present and for the first time I felt the pressures of a minority. They could not have treated me better. Princeton and Yale were well represented and were defending themselves from HBCU criticism for taking only the very best students from the historically HBCU applicant pool.

A year later, a Black Ivy League graduate applied to the University for an admissions position. Some less than polite remarks were passed among a couple of staff members… they were not very well informed and exchanged some very overworked and ignorant comments. This is how discrimination happens. In the end, she was hired and our learning experience continued. Today she is a very respected college professor. Her field is in the psychology of discrimination.

After these experiences my wife and I escaped to rural America where we almost never saw a Black person. The white folks up here spoke a different language regarding Black people they had never met. The “good olde boys” were alive and well talking about people they did not even know.

In some respects, it is very simple: “We have met the enemy and they are us!” We come from every possible cultural perspective. We too need to remember that we are minorities!

I love hearing the perspectives of other people. Thank you for sharing, retired farmer.

I would be careful about trying to collect data at account creation. Creating a gateway to membership because you think it will let you help users “better,” won’t help at all if it scares them away.

A forum for low income, first gen, and/or URM would be helpful. It would also help if you tried not to focus so much on high stats kids and elite colleges. I wouldn’t put the ivy league in their own grouping unless the other sports conferences get their own. And avoid clickbait thread titles.

Note that there are already these forum sections:

http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/african-american-students/
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/hispanic-students/
(but not sections specifically for first generation to college students or those from low income backgrounds)

But they may go unnoticed in the larger forum community, although some of the larger forum community may be tone-deaf or otherwise not that welcoming (intentionally or not) to students and parents posting in those sections.

But then that gets to the root of the issue – the forum is really based on its participants. Some of the apparently common beliefs, such as the great emphasis on race/ethnicity in college admissions, may be self-perpetuating, even though they can have a corrosive or unfriendly effect with respect to some participants. So that tends to keep forum demographics the way they are, or make them slower to change to reflect a wider range of students and parents than those whom the forums historically attracted.

I agree. Any site I visit for the first time that asks me for personal information almost never sees me visit again.

I think the key is to make African-Americans feel more comfortable (or more exactly, not make them feel uncomfortable) once they start visiting the forum, not to give them the 3rd degree the first time they visit.

I’m not sure I ever knew that. Thanks.

@EconPop , yes! I will leave any site immediately if they ask for my email address. Sites need to prove their worth before I will even consider giving them any info.

I think of that part as two separate areas that need to be worked on:

Outreach
As others have said, CC skews towards elite colleges, when the most significant problem is that many qualified students don’t consider colleges at all. If a bright child doesn’t have good parental guidance re education, the next person that could make an impact is the high school guidance counselor. But in many cases high school guidance counselors are highly overworked.

You need to make the guidance counselors your ally by showing them that CC will make their job easier. A good way to reach them is to show up at the conferences that they attend. See if you can find regional conferences in areas with a high percentage of black students and try to either sponsor a booth or get a speaking slot. At the national level, there is NACAC. This is Marketing 101.

Easy to understand guidelines
I put this second, but you actually need to have this ready before meeting with the counselors.

As I said above, you need to make the counselors job easier. Whenever they meet with a student that shows promise for college, they need to be able to hand the student a page that outlines the steps in applying to college. I will get to that in a bit.

There is a great deal of collective wisdom on CC, but it is highly dispersed. I joined CC before my youngest started high school and over years I learned a great deal that helped guide them into college. That said, I discouraged my children from spending time on CC, as it would take them too long to collect the information they needed. IMO, its current structure really works better for parents of children rather than the children themselves.

So what should the page say? Perhaps something like:

The point is that this must be curated content where every article makes the student or their parent much more knowledgeable, not the free form discussion where we get a useful nugget once in a while.

This might help, not sure though because right now CC does not have a reputation among counselors as being a serious place where a student can get accurate insights. I say that as a NACAC and IECA member. CC could certainly try outreach though, but I don’t see counselors supporting their students doing ‘chance me’ threads (which is what many counselors think CC is). But, as we know students can get excellent help here on building and categorizing school lists, financial aid (something HS and independent counselors tend to not deal with), application questions, etc.

I do work with some low SES and/or students of color. The issue I had with the thread, and then the AMA, with the AA student was the fact that her GPA (3.6ish) was marketed right in the thread titles as a ‘low GPA’.

As long as CC categorizes a 3.6 as a low GPA, CC will not appeal to many students who are already intimidated to come here (even in a anonymous setting) because they are not a top student, or are even below average (that’s around 50% of the students right?).

And as much as some might not want hooks to be part of the admission process they are, and that student was both URM and full pay, which are two important hooks at many schools…ones that can allow those with GPAs lower than 3.6 to gain admission. When counselors give advice we have to consider hooks when categorizing schools and helping our students find good fit schools.

There is much more student traffic on reddit, and the college admission threads are very active. Dean J from UVA has more than once come on CC, responded to a poster, and mentioned that there are more UVA students/potential students on reddit…basically saying ‘why don’t you go check that out’? Not good optics here for sure.

What if they showed up with the curated content ready to go?

Someone on the marketing side of CC should have been paying attention to the changing demographics that I described in post #36. But it’s not too late, as CC has the #2 position in terms of the place to go for college advice.

And as far as I know, reddit doesn’t have a place for curated content.