<p>Reading what people posted on this thread is awful! You all sound like MT stage mom snobs. Again, I have mentioned this on other posts. If you have talent you will make it no matter what rode you take. I know someone who graduated from AMDA, he got a great scholarship, (profit? HUH?) He has been working since he graduated, doing so many great things and making alot of money. He is currently on his way to Hong Kong to continue a part he has been playing all over the World. All schools that have a MT program do have professionals and if a teacher has to leave to God Forbid work in the business I would think that would be a great contact for a student. ONESONGGLORY good luck if you are good, you work hard, and stay humble..I will see you working! I have also been to there showcase and the performers were incredible.</p>
<p>IBeelieveINU,
This business is a minefield and you must step very carefully. It's unfortunate, because you are young and optimistic and that's a good thing. You stated that, "If you have talent you will make it no matter what rode you take". Most of us are on this website because we know that's not true. There's much more talent and training out there than jobs. A lot of students won't "make it" simply because they have to work in a bank or another occupation in order to eat or pay off loans. Sometime sucess really equates to luck. Not making it doesn't mean they weren't talented, they just had to survive. The people on this website are advising you, (generously giving you their time, and wisdom, I might add) to help you follow the right road because they know it's always tough to make it in the arts. The first step on the right road is spending your dollars wisely.</p>
<p>I BEELieveINU..
I have not read a single snobby post on this thread. I think each post is very well considered and talking about pros/cons. </p>
<p>I would agree with you that if you have talent, you will do well, no matter the path you have taken to achieve success. </p>
<p>I have read members, like myself, post that AMDA fills a need for some students wanting training in MT. If a student doesn't want a four year college or can't get into one, it offers a two year training curriculum. So, if someone wants that, this school offers it. That's great. </p>
<p>I have read members writing about how AMDA does a lot of commercial marketing, more so than many MT programs, seeking applicants, whereas other programs have more applicants than they know what to do with. </p>
<p>I have read members, including myself, state that it is less competitive to get into AMDA than many of the BFA programs. This is fact. This makes AMDA fill a need....possibly a safety school option for some. </p>
<p>I have read members, including myself, state that they know of some very talented people who have come out of AMDA. Not every graduate....but clearly some are quite talented. My D has seen some graduates of AMDA perform and has commented at how talented some of them have been. Not all, but some. </p>
<p>I read OneSongGlory talk about how no other school had such an accomplished faculty of working professionals as AMDA does. While they may have such a faculty, it is HARDLY unique. Many people read this forum to glean information and should know that there are many BFA programs (I gave my own kid's as just ONE example since I know of that faculty) that have working professionals on their teaching staff. It is cool if AMDA has it but let's not qualify that as unique or "better" as it simply is not. </p>
<p>Further, one should examine the graduation rate of any program. If the graduation rate is low, as is the case with AMDA, the student body as a whole is going to be different than at say, UMich's BFA, Penn State's BFA or Elon's BFA which have higher graduation rates. The student body....one's peers....in a program, play a significant role in what it is like to attend a school. It is one factor to consider. Some may care about their fellow student body and the rigor and motivation of their peers and others may not find that matters. That is why there are so many educational options out there. Different strokes for different folks. </p>
<p>AMDA is easier to get into than any of the BFA programs, and as a two year program, offers a nice alternative for some. However, someone looking into a two year program should also examine other options such as Circle in the Square. Examine program's reputations in the industry and so on. </p>
<p>I do not doubt that you know someone successful who came out of AMDA! Why of course! Successful people come out of all schools in this country! Picking a college (or two year training program) is not about how many successful people come out of each school but about which program meets your own learning needs and selection criteria. </p>
<p>I also do not doubt that you have seen very talented people in AMDA's showcase. Those are the students still left standing (many have left before that point). There ARE talented students there as there are at any school. I have not read anyone saying there are not talented students at AMDA. Even in less selective programs, which AMDA is, talented people will attend. The entire student body as a whole will not be as strong as in a much more selective MT program, but there will be pockets of talent. This is not my opinion, but is true of all colleges in this country. The entire student body at Harvard is extremely strong. There are students at Podunk community college who are as strong as the ones at Harvard but they are not the majority of the student body. Thus, the experience of attending Harvard and the one of attending Podunk community college will feel very different. However, a person can become a success coming out of either environment. Pick the environment that suits what you want in a college, that's all.</p>
<p>btw, Mtdog71 is not a parent of a MT college student. Doesn't qualify for your label of "stagemom".</p>
<p>thecheckbook, I agree with all you wrote. But just so you know, and I realize you are relatively a newcomer to CC, but IBEElieveINU is not a student. She is a mother (stagemom offically as many of us on here) of a son who is a freshman in Montclair State's BFA in MT program (if you do a search). She is not investigating a college to attend at this time for MT.</p>
<p>Soozievt: Thank-you for informing thecheckbook of my status. And how do you know I am not investigating a college for someone? The same way you know AMDA is a safety school? </p>
<p>TheCheckbook:
I am on this site to find out when students start getting letters and phone calls so I can gage it to tell friends of mine who are expecting some letter's. But, I mostly find myself an advocate for the less well known schools with MT programs. I don't like the way things are broken down. Top Tier, selective, competitive, I might be wrong but the actual schools I don't think even use those terms. </p>
<p>Sooievt and I became aquainted on this site when she advised one of her clients to audition for a second tier school or "safety school" and used Montclair State as an example. I just don't agree with that, I feel you should try your dream. If it is your dream to star on broadway are you just going to do community theater? I am well aware of how hard it is to make it in this business, everyone knows it's like winning the lottery, but you can win if you don't play.</p>
<p>BTW: I said you SOUND like stage moms not that you were one. And I wasn't addressing MTdog71 necessarily. Just anyone that it applies to. ( I think you know who you are)</p>
<p>I went off this site for awhile for my own personal reasons. Usually because I can't keep quiet about issues like this. I love MT, I see just about every show I can, shows NY and local, including High School and Community theater. The dance numbers are my favorite. I am far from a stagemom. I hardly ever mention my son, only if I have a question. I usually sit in the back of his performances and nobody knows who I am. He has his own plan for the summer. He is not auditioning for Strawhats or anything else, I asked him too, but he said he has other ideas. I am very proud of him and I stay out of it. I am just trying to help the kids, and let them know they can get accepted at a top tier school and get rejected from a safety, and can't go to the top tier because it is too expensive. And the drop out rate I don't think means anything because alot of kids leave school when they get a job anyway. Just my opinion about that subject.</p>
<p>IBEElieveINU....the reason I mentioned to thecheckbook that you are a mother and not a student is because if you look at her post #22, she assumed you are a kid when you are not. Of course you can investigate a school for someone else! </p>
<p>By the way, I would never call Montclair State a SAFETY SCHOOL! Ask any of my advisees or the many members who read my posts and how much I emphasize that NO BFA PROGRAM IS A SAFETY SCHOOL FOR ANYONE!! You clearly have misinterpretted my posts. </p>
<p>What I do maintain is that ALL of the BFA programs are very selective. ALL have very low admit rates. Some programs are more competitive to get into than others. The talent pools differ from program to program. The talent pool, for example, for UMich is not the same OVERALL as for Montclair State. What one would find is that there is OVERLAP in their talent pools. </p>
<p>For example, of all my D's friends who applied to BFA in MT programs and went on to enroll at many well known programs, none applied to Montclair State. (you use the term "top tier"....I have not...but if you go by "top tier"....the kids I know who are attending those schools were removed from the audition pool at Montclair as they did not apply/audition there.....though I am sure some did but none that I know) Montclair State is not drawing from the SAME EXACT talent pool as some other programs but it OVERLAPS their talent pools. </p>
<p>So, while the admit rate is low at EVERY BFA school.....one must build a balanced list of BFA programs in terms of how hard they are to get in.......AND include non-audition schools as back ups. Montclair State is NOT a backup or safety at ALL!!! However, Montclair State would be good on a student's list of BFA programs that may include CCM, CMU, UMich, Tisch, etc.....to balance it. </p>
<p>When I work with students, I help them create a BALANCED list of odds....both academic odds.....reach/match/safety......and artistic odds (more nationally renown programs and some more regionally known ones for example) and then some safety non audition schools. I believe you are using the term "top tier" school. Yes, some schools are more selective than others, be it academically or artistically. That doesn't make those schools BETTER....but simply harder to get into. People can be talented or successful coming out of ANY college. </p>
<p>As far as graduation rates go.....this is a selection criteria many consumers use when evaluating colleges. The graduation rate at Harvard is very high....I have to look it up but something like 99% or there abouts. Even USNews and World Report will include graduation rates when comparing colleges. Yes, people leave ALL schools for a myriad of reasons (and not just due to getting a job). AMDA has a very low graduation rate. So does Columbia College. Some may not care about that. But they should know it. The experience attending a school where a huge number will never graduate is very different from attending a school where the majority will graduate. These are all factors in selecting a college by most consumers.</p>
<p>Montclair State has a solid program and in fact, I recommend it to students quite often. So far, I have not had a student apply there yet as the final decision of where to apply is theirs to make.</p>
<p>I will add that I have recommended Montclair to some students due to their academic profile and where they are not in the ballpark for certain other schools. Some also are not as competitive artistically and need schools that fit their qualifications. A college list needs to fit each student and not simply "apply to A, B, and C schools because they all offer MT". One student's college list should differ from the next student. The idea is to have a list that will realistically yield SOME positive results for the student.</p>
<p>Soozievt:</p>
<p>OK If you want we can call a truce. We have different views and we keep going round and round.</p>
<p>IBEEliveINU....I don't see it as an argument. It is a discussion forum and you are making your points and I am expressing my points of view. </p>
<p>But since you claimed that I called Montclair State a safety school and I know I never would say any BFA program is a safety school....I feel I need to set the record straight. </p>
<p>As far as graduation rates, you have your point of view.....that people leave all colleges if they get a job....and I have my point of view which is actually factual, that the graduation rates differ a great deal from college to college and some people care about that and others do not. I, for one, would hesitate to send my child to any college with a low graduation rate. </p>
<p>I also did not see anyone put down AMDA but rather, share various points and opinions about aspects of the program. I even said if someone wants a two year program, this program serves a need for those seeking such an option.</p>
<p>Okay – taking a break from taxes – which I should have completed a month ago…..
“If you have talent you will make it no matter what road you take” – I do really, really wish that were true. It is not. Talent, hard work, commitment to your craft, proper training, a good reputation, a great support network, a great professional network, at some point maybe a good agent and then some good opportunities – then, maybe, you can carve out a life in the performing arts. Just a word about “luck” – I do not like the concept – I would rather phrase it that “luck” is when a good opportunity intersects with good preparation.</p>
<p>FACULTY. I feel secure in stating that most, if not all, faculty in reputable conservatories and universities have great and sustained connections to the professional world - to imply that AMDA has better connections than say U/Mich, OCU, CCM, Elon, CAP 21, and so on (don’t mean to leave folks out – just don’t want to list 30 programs) is just wrong. However, it should be pointed out that faculty connections at four-year institutions are actually more valuable because teachers come to know and care about their students. A director that is in for one show or two courses and then gone might sometimes be a connection – but by-and-large long-lasting relationships built over several semesters are far better. Further, it is hard to actually speak of the “faculty” at AMDA. AMDA has virtually no full-time, all-the-time employees that teach. The persons who teach courses at AMDA are part-time, occasional employees. Do not misunderstand, AMDA sometimes has great folks teaching a course or directing a production of some sort – but this is happenstance. Faculty, tenured, full-time persons who get health benefits and retirement benefits at reputable programs have been carefully pre-screened – it is not unusual to have over a hundred applicants who have amazing training and professional credits apply for an opening at good schools – after they get the job, their career at the school depends on good, sustained work. This contrasts with AMDA where they are very often scrambling to get persons in to cover their classes. Again, yes, there are a few teachers (voice in particular comes to mind) that have a somewhat consistent relationship with AMDA. However, if one has any concern for being fair and openly evaluating the question, there is a clearly defined, qualitative difference between teachers at top and/or second tier programs versus AMDA instructors.</p>
<p>ALUMNI. Yes, AMDA has many successful alumni. As I have mentioned, I have friends who have attended AMDA and are working. There is a chance that you can be successful coming out of any program – if you can piece together enough of the attributes I previously mentioned. Here’s the thing – AMDA takes scores and scores of people into their program. Many (not all) of them are very talented. It only makes sense that a percentage of them are going to be successful. Compare that to schools that selectively accept 12 – 20 a year – their percentage of success is much higher. It is, for example similar to 4% of 100 (4) verses, say, 40% of 20 (8). This is a tough business; there is no guarantee – which is why I would go with the better percentages.</p>
<p>Ibeelieveinu, Drop-out rate is actually a good indicator of a good program, it indicates whether the students feel they are gaining worthwhile instruction or not. Further, AMDA is really quite expensive – yes, there are scholarships (as there are at every school) but the basic package is actually very pricey. By the way, I applaud your support for your son’s choices, your support of smaller and affordable programs (if you read what I have written over the years you’ll see I agree with you), and your general support of MT. </p>
<p>I am not a mom – although a mom is a great thing to be – I am a working professional in performing arts. I try to stay positive about things on this board. I want parents and students to have good information so they can make good choices about the programs that fit their particular needs the best. This is why, I’ll state again, AMDA might be the best choice for some – but it should be understood that AMDA is essentially “Devry” for performing arts. I believe in giving yourself the best shot you can – for some, for their own reasons, AMDA might be it – but I believe, for the most part and on average, most students would serve themselves better at a four-year program.</p>
<p>soozievt
Thank you much for all the great information and I am so glad I recently joined this forum. So much information to help with decisions and for someone like me that is new to all of this.</p>
<p>mtdog, thank you for your well reasoned post as someone in the industry. I do not observe anyone bashing AMDA (or Montclair State for that matter) on this thread. I see thoughtful and reasoned posts discussing attributes of programs that may be right for some and not for others. </p>
<p>Contrast this polite discussion with what true bashing can look like by visiting the most recent thread in the Wright State MT Forum! </p>
<p>gonabastar....thank you for showing appreciation for the information that many members try to share here to help students like yourself. Welcome to CC.</p>
<p>Hi soozievt,</p>
<p>Gonabastar’s mom here. I have been looking at all the Musical Theatre Major Threads and Drama/Theatre threads here lately with my daughter. </p>
<p>My gosh your amazing and you know so much about all of this. So many great advisors on these discussions. I have just recently been looking at these College discussions and have decided I should start spending more time on this and investigating some more myself. I sure wish I would have discovered this before this March. It seems to have so much good information. I thought I should send a message to you and maybe you could understand a little more about gonabastar2009 and maybe have some ideas. </p>
<p>My daughter, gonabastar2009 is a senior in high school. She has applied at USC because they asked her to. They knew her gpa was a lesser one since we had that listed on a multi college Las Vegas Audition application. But they still asked her to apply because of her talent. At the LV audition callbacks they called back just 4 others and her. They spent 45 minutes with her and asked her to apply. She also had 8 other colleges call her back. She only applied at Cal Arts, USC and AMDA! She got other LV callbacks from DePaul, Cornish, New York Conservatory of the Dramatic Arts, and UNLV. </p>
<p>So we have sort of figured out she will probably have to go the jr. college route if she still doesn’t get into USC. She would like to try to get in later at USC or another university or conservatory and I think she is willing to work so hard. In first grade her teachers said they thought she was special ed and so we had to get her tested. They decided she was just barely under the requirement and so she had to stay in regular school curriculm. Then throughout all her school years she struggled and we had her tutored, she went to summer school and took extra classes for math - her worst subject. </p>
<p>Everyone keeps telling us she is so talented thou and she has such a passion and really wants this. She won a National Youth Theatre Award and her letter of recommendation from the Executive Director included as follows: </p>
<p>Grease - Sandy, “remarkable vocals, nicely reminiscent of Olivia Newton-John”.<br>
Music Man - Marian, “simply one of the best renditions of My White Knight I have ever heard”.
Les Miz - Cosette, “making those ballards soar far higher than they usually do in high school or any theatre for that matter”, and that she has a “gorgeous operatic voice”. He also said she “has an uncommon ability to excel in a wide spectrum of roles”. </p>
<p>The newspaper said when she was 14 that her performance as Maria in Sound of Music, “when Charlotte opens her mouth to sing, a big beautiful voice escapes from the 14 year old aspiring actress. She has a soft gentle nature that shines on stage and she has the ability to hold the audience’s attention in the palm of her hand”. She also received some amazing letters of recommendation from her High School Choir Director, Drama Director, Community Theatre Directors and a USC Alumni. I don’t mean all this to boast, just trying to help you understand her. </p>
<p>So I guess you would say singing is her main thing, but I have been told she is a great actress too. She also has taken lots of dance classes and is an average dancer. </p>
<p>We as parents try so hard but I am a home builder and my husband is a California Retired Fireman, so we don’t have a lot of theatre background. We could see she could sing when she was 3 and so we got her involved in a lot of theatre stuff and were always very supportive and always involved. I would design and build sets and my husband would help build and I always helped make costumes and we were both always helping with anything we could at both school and community theatre. Her High School has even hired me to do sets now since I have not been building any homes lately. “THE ECONOMY”!!! We have always been there right along her side! Her high school career counselor and drama teacher said go for AMDA in Los Angeles which she auditioned for and got accepted but we just don’t think it is right for her. I have read enough comments on all these threads which have made it sound not quite right! Thats how she got started into all of this college discussion. We were trying to find out what everyone thought about them. </p>
<p>So at this point what do you think. If you or anyone have any ideas I would sure appreciate them. I appreciate anytime you can give us to help!!! </p>
<p>Also I noticed on the threads that you are a college counselor. I have been starting to look at jr. colleges now and her USC counselor recommended Santa Monica College as a feeder school, do you have any feedback on them. Also do you have any jr. colleges you would recommend. </p>
<p>By the way she still has not heard from USC and mail has already come today. I’m still praying!!</p>
<p>Hi gonabastar,
So your Arizona residents? With the economy effecting you folks in Arizona so badly, (particularly in housing) why don’t you consider Uof A or ASU? ASU has an amazing music department. Even if she doesn’t have the background for vocal performance, you can give her private voice lessons. Dance classes are available and there are many student run theatre opportunities. Uof A has MT. I used to know a man who headed the theatre dept. at Prescott College. His last name was Bridgeman. He was very talented. If he is still there talk to him. My daughter is a transfer this year from vocal performance to MT.(college sophmore). Good luck, Prescott, AZ is lovely. I understand too your daughters singing ability, I’ll never forget being accused of giving my daughter private voice lessons when she was seven years old. It was a rumor at her school. The next week I went to school, on the invitation of the teacher to hear why such a rumor was circulated. I had no idea that a kid could sing like she could and it’s only improved. In the meantime if you can manage it and haven’t already, get her piano lessons. I found that when transferring and voice is the strong suit, solid musicianship is expected,(ie sightsinging, theory, piano).</p>
<p>Hi,thecheckbook,</p>
<p>gonabastar’s mom here: </p>
<p>Love your name - TOO FUNNY - Thank you for your great advice. We thought alot about U of A or ASU and some of my D’s classmates are going. 2 of them got into the U of A school and they auditioned, but did not get into the theatre department as freshman. Her high school career counselor said her gpa wouldn’t work at those schools. She has been taking voice lessons for a couple of years and can do some sightreading and has studied some music theory too. She does need more though. I will try to locate the Prescott College teacher.</p>
<p>gona - her HS counselor may be correct about her gpa, but she could also be wrong. Many school counselors are woefully uninformed about the specialized circumstances of colleges that require an audition. I can’t speak to the Arizona schools, but there is a wide variance in how much the academic side is weighted when it comes to audition programs - from being necessary to pass the academic bar to be considered to audition; to equal weighting for the academic and the audition; to the academic being minimally considered if the audition is strong enough. Too late for this year; however, if she is considering a JC and auditioning next year, I would definitely check that out.</p>
<p>MusThCC,</p>
<p>So are you saying you think a JC is a good way to go at this point or do you think she will have a harder time getting in as a transferring sophomore instead of as a freshman. I don’t mind if she has to go 1 year at JC and then start as a freshman again. I just want her to go to a great school.</p>
<p>We are actually going to visit AMDA in LA during spring break as it is only a couple of hours drive from home. My D has a vey good friend who is extremely talented that is at AMDA in LA for MT. This girl went to U of Arizona for one semester, but it was not a good fit for her so she transferred to AMDA where she is very happy. </p>
<p>AMDA is not high on Ds list, but she really would like to visit as her friend is there. We are setting up the visit so that D will be able to sit in on some classes. I will let you know what we think after our visit.</p>
<p>I would love to hear about the LA campus since I only know NYC</p>
<p>Well, I’ve read a lot of stuff, but as I am just a girl from GA trying to be an actress, I would still like to be accepted at AMDA. Ive been rejected from CalArts and am expecting more rejections. I’m trying to transfer and just haven’t had any training in a while, so I’ll take what I can get and be happy with it. I’m just hoping my intellect will help me out-I’ve been making pretty good grades. Of course, that doesn’t matter much at AMDA, but anyways…I think there might be some confusion though. AMDA DOES offer a BFA program in acting and MT now. It’s very new and probably why they recruit people so vigorously so that they can keep the program going. I went to my audition last sat. in ATL and the auditor told us in the orientation that there are 550 students at the LA campus and 650 students at the NY campus. So, yes the program is bigger than some, but still relatively small for a college. I mean, 550 students isn’t that many (Im trying for the BFA acting in LA). Anyways, it sounds like a pretty good program and they have full summer semesters, so people can graduate earlier and spend less money. They apparently provide a scholarship for ppl who stay during the summer session AND there are tons of free workshops and stuff. </p>
<p>Also, the admissions rep. said that the classes cap off at 20 and you pretty much stay with the same people as to get comfortable with the same group of kids. This sounds good to me as well. I like building relationships with people who I will be acting with. Also, the rep. said that there are a lot of professors and that they try to get you into different professors’ classes every semester so that you can make more and more connections with them and start networking, because, let’s be honest, that’s really important.</p>
<p>Also in your last year there is a showcase like other ‘top-notch’ BFA schools. And if someone is looking to transfer (like myself) it is great because they accept 30 hours of general ed. so you can finish early. </p>
<p>And lastly, compared to most BFA programs, it is relatively cheap–a little over 33,000 a year, and you have to remember that you will be living in the heart of LA ( not a very inexpensive place to live). </p>
<p>So, before bashing AMDA or calling it the “DeVry” of acting schools, you should probably do your research to find that AMDA is NOT just a 2 year conservatory anymore and that they DO offer a BFA program now consisting of 120 credits. I’m not saying you’ll get into Yale grad. school with a degree, but hey, it’s a BFA with seemingly great training. </p>
<p>Oh, and one more thing, I know they pretty rigorously recruit, but that doesn’t mean everyone under the sun gets in I don’t believe. Maybe they just want to see all the talent they can…</p>