My daughter dreams of going to Indiana University or Butler because they put on full length ballets, have pointe, Pas de Deux, male dancers, and dance on Saturdays. Are there any other colleges that are comparable? She is is basically looking for a conservatory feel but wants a college so she can get a separate degree in business or accounting etc… She is not looking at the conservatories for that reason.
We are looking for something we may have missed. She has a list but the majority of them do not put on full length ballets… she now is realizing how important that feels to her.
On her list is Fordham, Point Park, Goucher, Peabody, Marymount Manhattan, Adelphi, Barnard
I am starting to wonder if she should look at a conservatory and complete college online at a slower pace. Or possibly go to a trainee program and take classes at a college or online. I am not thrilled about that option as I would like her to have a college experience but I am remaining open minded. If she were to go this route, I would prefer her to stay on the east coast. Any thoughts or experiences about that route?
Does anyone have thoughts about University of South Carolina or Mercyhurst? I can’t find much in the Boston area for dance programs connected with colleges, has anyone else?
I realize I am all over the place with this opening discussion but I honestly thought I had a good grip on where she was applying. We started searching years ago and we were trying to focus on keeping her closer to the east coast side- near NYC. She liked all of the above listed programs…but only recently as a senior, realized she wants to be in the full length shows. I did not see that one coming as a factor to what she believes will make her happy in college.
You should probably add Oklahoma and Utah to your list if your daughter is willing to go further west. I would consider those two programs to be the most comparable to Indiana and Butler for classical ballet, though they are probably slightly easier to get into. Deadlines are coming up pretty soon though.
Agree about looking at Oklahoma and Utah. Utah will be doing La Fille Mal Gardee in February, for example.
Why is dancing on Saturday one of her criteria, out of curiosity? Also, has she been in full-length ballets already and wants to continue that, or is she looking for something that she hasn’t been able to experience thus far?
Wyoming does the Nutcracker every other year and I think full ballet in the ‘off’ years, with a spring dance show. My daughter’s freshman roommate was a dance major, in the honors college, and I think had another minor too. The facilities are really nice (really nice) as they built a huge dance studio about 4 years ago that cost several million dollars. If cost is an issue, Wyoming gives out a lot of money. There is the Rocky Mtn Scholar merit award, a theater and dance scholarship (~$2k), honors scholarships, and some alum scholarships.
Thank you both for your helpful responses. I am looking into all of your above suggestions as well as looking through Dance Magazine’s “College Guide” now. Lol, Saturday dancing is not listed in the magazine. Her dance studio does the Nutcracker every year as well as a full length ballet each spring. She has been having Pas de Deux since middle school and the opportunity to dance with professionals since she was very small. Her dance studio hires professional dancers for the shows. She dances all day every Saturday and many times, a good portion of Sunday afternoon as well. She absolutely loves it.
I know it seems apparent that someone like her should try for a conservatory, a company or a trainee program. I am open minded to all of the above and I have encouraged her to follow any dream she has at this point. At minimum, I am encouraging her to take a gap year and put herself out there for a new experience. I am also grateful that she is very realistic about the dance world and the realities of where she feels her dance ability and technique will take her. I am equally grateful to all of the professionals that have shared with her their stories and advice. Most of them tell her to dance her heart out but get a degree as they did for themselves or wished they had done. It is never too late, but it gets harder with age and responsibilities.
In addition, my daughter has taken the most challenging academic path in her high school and pretty much has to study during the majority of her free time from ballet. She is used to the rigorous lifestyle of school and dance and likes it. Lol, her social life with her friends revolves around going to see dance performances any chance they get. Her story is similar to so many dancers out there and it is sometimes hard on the rest of our family, both for time and finances. But she loves it and never has caused us an ounce of worry or gotten into any trouble…so…we march on and support what she enjoys so much. Aside from adoring being a mom and wife, I never had anything I tfelt so strongly about loving to do…so I really admire how much she loves having something so special.
That is her profile and the this last minute posting is to find some new schools for the list in case she can’t get into IU, Butler or Point Park. There is a huge chance that she is not going to get into any of the above three for dance as almost everyone she knows is trying for the same. She has already been accepted to the schools but is very realistic that the competition for the few spots in those three dance programs is going to be brutal and very well may not happen.
So what has this mom up at 3:00 in the morning so worried when I seem to know the realities of it all? It’s when your daughter, who has been a sheer pleasure to raise, keeps mentioning that college is most likely going to be a let down as far as dancing. It’s her friends that started college this past September telling her they dance way less than they did in high school and miss it tremendously. Those same friends that are finding themselves not chosen for a performance because they are either freshman or just not considered the top students. They tell her pointe and Pas de Deux are not of much focus and they don’t have the heart to tell their parents how much of a bummer it is for them. Such great girls that are so grateful for what they had and to their parents, but joke amongst one another about the slow death of their ballet world. It is also the moms that do realize and tell me they should have done more research. Some are calling me to look for a different program and what to look for now. I know this sounds so melodramatic…even I find myself thinking that they have to let it go at some point! I don’t think the majority of them could afford it if they were out on their own and trying to support themselves and dance. I say this in jest, but I almost wish I did not her in such a good dance studio so college would be such a fresh and exciting step up! I had no idea when I signed her up as a three year old …lol. I also have little extended family support…grandparents can’t understand why such an academically achieving girl is picking a college based on the dance department. Lol, you should hear them about the gap year idea!
In a nutshell, I know the top dance programs…what are the next group with full length performances and lots of pointe? Thanks for any help everyone. May she be blessed that this will be her biggest problem in life.
If she winds up at IU, Butler, OU, or UU I’m certain she’ll still have plenty of ballet in her life. It’s good to do as much research and digging as she can to find out what schools truly offer what she is looking for (or to come to the realization that a trainee position is actually what she’s craving, possibly).
I agree that IU, Butler, OU and UU should be the top 4 (I don’t know anything about Point Park), most people would put them roughly in that order from most difficult to least difficult admit. I don’t think my daughter (who is at Utah with @mom2adancer’s daughter) feels she dances significantly less than in high school - they have ~20 hours a week of studio classes before adding in performance rehearsals. It’s certainly not a let down in any way at all. And you need some time to take other college classes and do homework, not to mention enjoying college life, so Saturday classes are unlikely to be a feature of most schedules - she also needs to catch up on sleep at the weekends after 8am classes Monday to Friday.
My daughter was also a top student in her HS (4.0 UW/35 ACT/9 APs with 8 5s). It was very helpful on the scholarship front (Utah in particular has great academic scholarships) which means she can save the money in her 529 for grad school. Note that some scholarships (in particular those at Utah) are only available straight from high school so be cautious about a gap year - it’s probably better to get in now and defer than to apply in a year’s time.
Many people we know expressed surprise that we “let” her turn down Berkeley and UCLA to do dance instead. But we are happy she is doing what she wants to do while still having the flexibility to do something else later on.
If she is only looking to dance, she should take the gap year and do it full time. College is NOT going to be full time dance as the college diploma is telling the world that the student also took math and history and science, that the student learned to reason and think and write.
She should send in her completed application NO LATER than Dec 1, in order to be eligible for the 1/2 to full tuition scholarships, which are offered to academically tip top students by school.
she needs to realize that college is a LOT more work, and the classes are a LOT harder than HS, and dance students will need to rest their bodies on Sats.
the lack of Sat dancing should not be a factor in her college decision process.
I know that Princeton, Harvard, and U Chicago have formal ballet companies but are also tippy top schools that are reaches for all. But I’ll put that out there.
Has she looked into Fordham?
On the smaller side, Dickinson College is in the same town as CPYB - I have no idea if Dickinson puts on full ballets or not (I suspect not) although their ballet offerings are more robust than most LACs and their curriculum and faculty are linked to CPYB.
Check out the 5 college consortium (U Mass Amherst-Amherst-Mt Holyoke-Smith-Hamphire). I believe that their program skews more contemporary but might be worth a bit of digging to see what level of ballet performance is supported.
Alternately, she might pursue chances to dance in the community that are not as time consuming as being an apprentice or trainee in a full time company. Some regional companies can accommodate the schedules of college students.
@MorningGirl - have the friends who have been dissappointed in their college dance programs been students who went to BA or BFA programs? My D is not a ballet dancer, she is a BFA Drama in a Musical Theatre program and she is busy every minute of the week. Her BFA has a substantial academic portion (she is at NYU) but she’s much busier artistically than she ever was is High School and last year I was sitting in your shoes, worrying she wouldn’t have enough theatre to feed her soul in college. I can’t advise as to ballet programs but I would say - check your sources on the “death of ballet in college” stories. If those are students who went for BA programs and your daughter is looking at BFA programs, their experiences will be quite different.
@CaMom13 brings up a great point. In our research, we found that BA programs had significantly fewer dance hours compared to BFA programs.
I think @Twoin18 gave a good summary as well. This semester our freshmen have about 10 hours of technique, 3 hours of pointe, 3 hours of jazz, and 2 hours of character each week. On top of that are rehearsals which can run as long as three hours a day/five days a week. If they’re cast in a student showcase piece they might be rehearsing on weekends in order to work around the other rehearsals already scheduled. My DD is grateful to have time on Saturday and Sunday for other things. She has had two weeks off from rehearsals but begins again in earnest next week with some days calling for dancers to be available for 5 hours rather than just three, and a few weekend days thrown in.
The more a dancer can really clarify what it is they want after high school, the easier it is to do some concerted research and try to make the best decision possible.
A couple of other programs you might want to look that are UNCSA (although that may skew too much in the conservatory direction for your dd) and the Virginia Commonwealth/Richmond Ballet program. I believe this program allows trainees at Richmond Ballet to simultaneously pursue a BFA at VCU.
You mentioned University of South Carolina and I don’t have any first-hand information, my understanding is that is a strong and growing program that can be a good fit for serious ballet dancers.
University of Cincinnati - College Conservatory of Music also performs full length ballets. I believe they are performing Cinderella this year. They do allow dancers to join a company in their junior or senior year and complete their degree on line.
@NewMexMama Do you have more information about University of Cincinnati? My ballerina is applying and auditioning there this year and is very interested but I haven’t found much outside information. Thanks in advance!
@MorningGirl everyone on here has given you great advice on the schools that focus on ballet and perform full length ballets. I just want to chime in on the importance of having rest days on Saturday and Sunday. Rest days prevent injuries and burnout.
Pursuing a rigorous dance program in college is different from high school. Your daughter will need those rest days, not only for her body, mind and spirit, but also to do laundry, run errands, catch up on classroom assignments and just chill and hang out with friends. Good Luck to your daughter!
@MorningGirl I was wondering if you had an update on where your daughter applied or will be applying? Her profile sounds very similar to my daughter’s who is currently a high school sophomore. We are beginning to formulate a college list. Her father is not on board with her trying to audition for a company after HS graduation so a college degree will be in her immediate future although he’s not crazy about her getting a degree in dance with a ballet concentration either.
@collegeadmiss I highly recommend the Dance Magazine College Guide as a starting point especially if you have sophomore. You can begin touring or gathering information or going to performances or following social media fo those schools she may be interested in (or doing master classes and summer intensives there?) You can search Dance Magazine College Guide and it should come up . It runs $39.95 but does not change much from year to year. I bought one when my D’s were freshman & sophomore and then again when my oldest was a senior 3 years later. Totally worth the money!
You may also want to check out Ballet Talk for Dancers as they have information about colleges with forums as well as summer programs. It is not a free forum though.
@NavigatingMom yes, I already have a copy from 2018 of Dance Magazine’s College Guide and have started making a preliminary list. We will be touring a few schools this year. We also started following some of the IG accounts. For the past 4 years she has attended mostly company related SI (ABT, Ballet Hispanico, Pennsylvania Ballet, Houston Ballet, and The Rock), but this year we are tying to decide if she should look at the college intensives to get a feel for their programs or do another company affiliated SI. I’m also on Ballet Talk for Dancers so I’m familiar with that forum as well. It’s just a lot to try and sort out knowing that it’s a difficult path with little monetary reward at the end.
