What contribution towards college should we expect from DD19?

Parents Corner
1

<p>We are having a tough time w/ DD. </p>

<p>She struggled her first year of college, and really had no set major. BUT, she couldn't find a FT job that would pay enough for her to live on her own, so decided it would be best to get a degree, which she could afford, living at home and taking out loans. </p>

<p>She really wanted to go away to college, but we couldn't afford it, AND I was not willing to take out any loans as she had not done as well is HS as she could have. She resented that immensely, yet, many of her friends also commute to college. She is clearly lacking in maturity.</p>

<p>Just a little background, to take us to today.</p>

<p>She got accepted into a PTA program off a wait list. Fabulous opportunity. Only 2 year program and decent pay for that in this area, around $35K to start. Not her dream job, but she is familiar with the work, likes the short program AND is thrilled she can move out IF she gets a job shortly after graduation.</p>

<p>So she works part time and clears on average about $500 a month. She pays for gas for college, commuting, about $200 a month. She also pays for her own phone, and all personal items, including work clothes and shoes. She will have full loan amounts upon graduation. All sub and unsub Staffords and Perkins. </p>

<p>We covered her tuition shortfall this year, as the college does not offer any scholarships. Not too bad, and we will get the tax credit. I have suggested to her to put some of her excess monthly pay towards her future shortfall. Again, she is not happy with that as she thinks we should be paying more. DH thinks she is wasting money needlessly and should be doing so, or giving it to us to put away towards it. Also, could kick in for car upkeep. We just spent about $800 on good tires, repairs, inspection, etc. </p>

<p>She lives at home, we pay insurances, med bills, textbooks, and bought her a decent used car for around $10K for college. We had planned on giving her that car when she graduated as "our" contribution to her education. </p>

<p>What to you all think? Are we being fair? are we expecting too much? or too little? </p>

<p>What would "you" do under the circumstances. She is our oldest, and first one out of the nest, so this is a work in progress.</p>

<p>She is doing very well so far in this new program, she is clearly committed to it. It is a 45-50 min drive 5 days a week, sometimes only for an hour and a half at school. Not the best schedule but there are no choices, it is what it is. </p>

2

<p>You don’t have to do anything you want once your kid is over 18. Can you afford to help out with her tuition? If you can’t then there is nothing to discuss, but a lot of parents do pay 100% of their kid’s college tuition plus room and board. Your kid seem to be working very hard and being responsible. I would pay for her tuition if I could afford it.</p>

3

<p>I don’t see her wasting scads of money. She. Is paying for some of her e expenses and everyone needs a bit of spending money. I think you should continue to pay some of the tuition.</p>

4

<p>Have you sat down and together figured out what her loan repayments are going to look like after she graduates? On the one hand, I don’t think your D should get used to a standard of living now that she won’t be able to attain once she’s working full time- and it’s possible that after rent and utilities and loans- she just won’t have much money for the lifestyle she thinks she’s going to have. OTOH, I don’t know that you want to punish her with loans if in fact you can afford to be contributing more than you are.</p>

<p>It doesn’t sound like she’s being extravagant, and it doesn’t sound like she’s being irresponsible. Perhaps you’d consider charging her “rent” which you would put into an account for her to help with transitioning expenses once she’s on her on? If she’s not a good saver, this can help put aside the nest egg she’ll need (first and last months rent, security deposit, some basic furnishings) for down the road?</p>

5

<p>Budgeting is not a skill that comes naturally. I would set up a 12 month budget for yourself wrt her that seems fair and share it with her. Decide if you want to pay 1/2 tuition, all tuition, car insurance, car repairs, etc. But be concrete.</p>

<p>If you are always “just making up the difference,” “covering the shortfall,” or “helping her out a bit” when she is short, AND having opinions on whether she is wasting money, she is not learning to be independent. Define set categories and amounts you are willing to contribute. Right now, she has no incentive to spend responsibly or to take on more work hours, since any extra money she earns will just reduce your contribution. There is no upside, and no opportunity to set a budget for herself.</p>

<p>If you set your budget, then she has something to work against. Set a rental price (room + board) and put that in your budget. Make it market rate. Set up credits and debits even if they balance to zero each month with no money trading hands. You may contribute 100% to room and board as a contribution to her education, but make it visible and track it with her. Sit down 5 minutes a month and go over the budget. She needs to learn to budget and she needs to understand what expenses that $35K a year will need to cover, once she graduates.</p>

<p>Define what you are willing to spend your money on.</p>

<p>Then, offer to help her set up a budget and her separate checking account. Help her to learn how to use it and how to budget her money. Encourage her to set up, for example, clothing and social/going-out categories and to fully spend them- don’t short-change herself trying to be extra-frugal. She needs to learn balance and that “budget” is not a dirty word, but a liberating one.</p>

<p>Start preparing her to completely cut the apron strings. There are many ways to go with this, but whichever way you go, setting up for transparent visibility and for independence is the way to go. You could even put in a ghost $3,000 per month budget, and while she is in school contribute $2,500 of that (in-kind like rent, etc. plus actual costs, place-holders for insurance, savings, retirement contributions, taxes, vacation, etc.) so that when she graduates she can keep the template and just transfer from you to her employer. I think you get the idea.</p>

<p>Note: This is what I INTEND to do, myself, for my kids, once I get around to it. Thanks for the little push!</p>

6

<p>It doesn’t sound like she is being wasteful if she is spending $300/month on phone, clothing, personal expenses, spending money, etc. $300 doesn’t go far as we all know. You are being generous to cover all of her other expenses. Only you know what you can afford to pay to help her out. I agree with you about no loans outside of Stafford and Perkins as you have other children coming up. I would definitely sit down with her and show her what her monthly cost will be once she graduates and has to start paying back that loan. It can add up quickly and she may not realize how much she will owe and how far that $35.000 projected salary will go. </p>

<p>It sounds like she is working hard to do well and has buckled down since her 1st year. I would help out with tuition IF you can afford it after taking into account education needs for your other children. </p>

7

<p>45 minutes in each direction? That is a lot of driving. Hope she has some of her schoolbooks on tape or MP3 to put that time to use. $10/day gas?</p>

<p>I don’t know your personal situation, financial and otherwise, so it is hard to comment intelligently. Is she able to work and drive back and forth and do schoolwork all 3 relatively well? Could she get a similar job right near her current school? Maybe you could sell the car and put that money and the insurance, upkeep, gas, etc towards school costs? She could live off campus near school, find a cheap place with friends and pay a good part of her rm/bd with work earnings, since she seems able to work a fair amount while attending school. You could cover the tuition, if it is financially feasible for your family. I personally wouldn’t have kids do loans if kids are working hard and we can afford to help enough to avoid that. But that’s just me and my personal aversion to debt in any form. </p>

<p>I cant tell if you don’t pay more because it would be difficult for you financially, or because you feel she didn’t earn the help during the high school staging ground years, or because of some personal ideals about young people earning their own way is good for character. All of which are perfectly fine rationales. </p>

8

<p>When I went to college, I got zero support from my family as we had very low income. I survived with grant and loan (full need met) as well as summer job. Now I am paying for D’s boarding and books while she got scholarships and grant to cover the tuition and fees. She will also work during holidays and find internships over the summers. I don’t expect her to support herself at all during college and I will continue to pay for whatever that is necessary. Anything beyond that (e.g. movie, camping or dinner with friends) will be on her own. To be honest, you don’t expect a teenager to have saved enough money for college. But once my D graduate from college and find a job, my financial support will be over. The cost for college education is at least in part affected by the family income and asset that the student does not have control on. So it is reasonable to expect certain parental support. It is between you and your daughter to determine the amount that you can contribute. For things you cannot afford, you cannot afford. If you are trying to squeeze more money out of her earned money, it may actually discourage her from working.</p>

9

<p>She sounds mature, responsible and reasonable.</p>

<p>I suggest that you cover as much as you can of this investment toward longer term independence. I know too many parents whose kids work a lot of hours or have to pay tuition and cannot do it all, then end up more dependent, not less, because they remain in low pay jobs.</p>

<p>Your daughter will be self-supporting soon. Help her as much as you possibly can, including loans. Everyone is different so that is just my two cents without knowing you.</p>

<p>You may not realize that your daughter is taking on more than many kids her age do, especially those who head to 4 year residential colleges and only have to worry about studies and social life. Appreciate her!</p>

10

<p>When they live at home, the total expances are so much lower. So, IMO, here is her contribution - the decision to lower her total expnses by living at home.</p>

11

<p>Thanks for the responses. It is hard to sit down and discuss this, as she does not like to sit down and discuss anything. I have tried talking to her about budgeting, for now and the future, and she doesn’t want to talk about it We have had a difficult relationship the past few years, mainly over her very bad news boyfriends; she spent a lot of money on the last one. </p>

<p>Also, DH and I can’t seem to get on the same page. He is one of those who thinks kids should pay their own way through college, and I know they can’t possibly do that today. Also, I paid for a CPR class, then she spent a $110 on a gym membership that she doesn’t use. That really annoys my husband. </p>

<p>Money is a huge issue. We had an EFC of $2100 for her this past year, so obviously we don’t really have the money to pay full anything. We have a son graduating this year, and a DD in HS, so lots of college expenses in the near future, and don’t see our income increasing all that much. Our contributions are going to be limited with 3 kids. </p>

<p>The college is virtually in the middle of nowhere. No dorming available and even if she could find a place to rent, she would still need a car to get to school. It’s a pain, but she only has a year and a half of this, then she does clinicals.</p>

<p>This has been a shock to us. She literally got called off the wait list 3 days before school started, so we were not prepared for any of the expenses we got hit with. It depleted our checking account, which totally freaked out my husband. </p>

<p>There are other issues here, I am not going to discuss on a website, but I think DH and I need to sit down and talk over and come up with a set plan. That has been our biggest issue I think.</p>

12

<p>If your EFC is that low and that is the life she has been living for many years, I don’t understand why she is resentful that you can’t pay for her schooling. She ought to understand that almost without being told. Presumably there have been other things you haven’t been able to afford over the years so that this is not the first time she had to help pay or do without. </p>

<p>My kid was resentful when he got the news that we weren’t prepared to spend what some expensive colleges expect us to pay. But he had no way of knowing from his prior experience that we don’t have that kind of money, as we have enough money to pay all the small/medium price stuff easily and he hadn’t had any $200,000+ requests until now. So we put up with the resentment for a bit, until he comprehended and accepted the financial facts.</p>

<p>I see my ideas are not right for your situation. Does she get any financial aid grants? Did you fill out FAFSA? Seems like there should be something more than just loans available for that income. Good luck with H and working out a plan.</p>

13

<p>OP- thanks for the clarification.</p>

<p>agree that you aren’t in a position to subsidize the gym she doesn’t attend while you’re looking at other kids in the pipeline. But I do think that if your D hasn’t figured out what her loan repayments are going to do to her take home income once she graduates, she needs to do that ASAP. She may have a fantasy life- like some TV sitcom- of getting her hair done, drinking Cosmopolitans with GF’s, a cute apartment, weekend trips, whereas once she’s done with rent, utilities, and loan repayments, she’s making a pot of spaghetti at home with her friends and hoping someone brings a salad.</p>

<p>Is there another grown up in the picture she trusts who can have a reality check with her?</p>

14

<p>I basically agree that a kid should already be familiar (more or less) with family financial limits- but wonder if maybe she is bothered by the way the talks are handled. ? Sometimes, we have to be clever how we approach them. </p>

<p>I don’t know how much you can ask her to set aside from $500. After commuting, phone, personal- and presumably covering some fun with friends- there isn’t much left. Is she paying for her lunches or you pay for a meal plan? </p>

<p>I can’t see you asking for more than, say $40-50/month from her. Over 6 months, that’s only $2-300- wouldn’t make a dent in tuition or tires. If someone feels she should be working more, plus getting good grades, you have to see if that is feasible. See what the primary goal is. Sometimes, that means the program and being best prepared for that job, when she graduates. Best to you. We know these things are hard.</p>

15

<p>Under either condition, discussion or not, nothing will change untill she is on her own financially. Sorry for the ugly truth. I tend to save my energy on something that is under any kind of my control. This one is not, I just have to realize my limitations. Not facing that may actually make people sick, which means much worse off than before. I do not want to be there. My goal is to enjoy every minute of my life. There are others who have different goals, so go with your goal, whatever it is…</p>

16

<p>I totally agree. There isn’t that much left over, which is why I think what she contributes is enough. </p>

<p>However, with the extra expenses due to the program, and with us already planning on giving her the car after graduation, DH wants her to stop wasting money and use it to offset the increased expenses. Not that it may even be all that much, but it will help and it’s the principle of the thing as well.</p>

<p>It is also hard predicting the costs; that is one of the big problems with need based aid. We really don’t know what she may qualify for next year, and what other costs will go up. </p>

17

<p>I think you’ve got three competing principles here:</p>

<p>1- launching your D (and your other kids) into an independent lifestyle on a reasonable timetable. Some kids take longer to launch; some kids educational needs are more costly than others- but within “reasonable” you’d like them all to be self-sufficient.</p>

<p>2- helping the college age D manage a full set of priorities- work, school, commute, plus any social life or EC involvement which could help her career plans, leadership opportunities, etc.</p>

<p>3- not crippling yourselves financially with obligations which can’t be fixed or undone.</p>

<p>So with these in mind- I think it’s reasonable for you guys to provide D with room and board, helping with extras particularly for a safe vehicle given how much driving she does. </p>

<p>I would be concerned that the D hasn’t yet come to terms with how much her debt is going to cut into her future paycheck, and I would be concerned if D wasn’t making good progress towards her degree. But since she seems to be doing the latter, I think worrying about/communicating about the former is a better use of your time than getting her to kick in another $25 or $30 a month which frankly, isn’t going to change your financial picture all that much right now.</p>

<p>It’s the bigger reality- what happens if she can’t start paying back her loans on a timely basis and does she understand how much that repayment schedule will dominate her life if she isn’t careful which is the real issue. Not $20 here or there right now- in my opinion.</p>

18

<p>If she did awesome in school and was accepted to a top school and was staying on campus, would you have an issue paying this money?</p>

<p>When my DD went to school, we paid for tuition, room adn board, and books and her phone. Everythiing else was up to her.</p>

<p>She is commuting to school so there will be more wear and tear on the car…but she is not paying for room and board.</p>

<p>She will be paying for the loans in the future…so she is contributing.</p>

<p>If I could afford it, I would help pay tuition. I would be happy she has a plan. If I couldn’t, I would ask for $100 a month.</p>

19

<p>I do think some kids these days may have a different mentality regarding money. Some may think a $500 phone with a $100 monthly plan to be essential. Interestingly,my 2 teenager Ds have very different concepts about money. Anyway, my calculated EFC is multiple times of OP while I could not afford a gym membership myself. So I do feel why the father may feel upset about it. I think the parents may set a specific amount of monthly allowance and let the D to learn how to budget her expenses.</p>

20

<p>Sometimes, it’s not a matter of what we want to do but what we can do. With an EFC of $2100 and two more kids coming up, I don’t see how you can do much more than you are. Will you be able to cover those tuition shortfalls for three more semesters? If not, there’s no harm is “billing” d a small monthly amount for rent or car maintenance or whatever and putting it toward that tuition. I don’t know if you can do that in a way that won’t make her slightly resentful, but you’re family without a lot of income. What are you supposed to do? It’s not like you are have a lot of money and are withholding it. I think she probably knows this and for some reason just wants to be mad at dad.</p>

<p>I don’t think I’d even try the budget/loan repayment talk at this point. She’s not ready to hear it, and until she is, you are just wasting you breath.</p>