<p>It seems obvious that some schools are religious while others are not, either because they are religiously indifferent per se, or because the student body is "religiously" atheist.</p>
<p>However, there seem to be some cases where the students identify as religious or the college has a historical affiliation, but there is disagreement as the the role or nature of religion on campus.</p>
<p>With this in mind, how do you define a religious campus? What factors must be considered?</p>
<p>I think that although this is a general discussion, it is an incredibly important one to discuss, and is likely to be at least a marginal factor in the college search of many prospective students.</p>
<p>I think that are different levels of religious schools…
There are religious schools that…</p>
<p>1) you’d feel uncomfortable attending if you didn’t belong to that religion.</p>
<p>2) you don’t have to belong to the school’s religion, even though that religion is “felt” at the school, but you feel totally fine and feel no pressure.</p>
<p>3) you feel totally fine at the school, because the school’s relgious identity is barely recognizable.</p>
<p>tk… I thought that first picture meant that they want to hear some noise from the fans ;)<br>
When the professors tie in religion to their subjects, it becomes religious. Son has encountered some of it in English comp. class and biology. He notices it most in the praying that occurs before many campus events. None of this really bothers him, but I could see where it could bother some people. Anyone who is concerned about it, should try to talk to several students, when visiting a school.</p>
<p>Its a rhetorical question and deserves a rhetorical response. There is not one answer, not one size fits all, not one definition, nor one acceptable degree of religiosity at any school. In short, its somewhat silly and superficial. </p>
<p>Individuals know what they are looking for in a school. Some may seek a campus of constant prayer and some may seek only a religious heritage or affiliation. The point is that you are responsible to find that school(s) which fulfills your needs (or in the case of secular atheists is the least religious). </p>
<p>That we have so many choices in this country is a blessing, pardon the pun. But I think pitting one school against another as being “more catholic” or “more religious” , or in the case of the anti religious types is “too catholic” or “too religious” is ridiculous and not helpful to the general mission of this website which is to help people in the college search and selection process. </p>
<p>I think visiting a school is always a good idea, for whatever reason you have in mind. And no one person is obligated to feel the same about a school as the next person. You may be in a college tour where you find people who are disgruntled or unhappy and also have people who are in love with the school. That is fine. Sometimes finding out what you don’t want is just as important as finding out what you do want. </p>
<p>There are a myriad of choices: Catholic colleges, Methodist colleges, Mennonite colleges, Lutheran colleges, Jewish colleges, Presbyterian colleges, Moravian colleges, Baptist colleges, Evangelical colleges, strict orthodox colleges and liberal colleges bordering on secular. There is even a well known Episcopal college: Sewanee, Univ of the South. There are seminaries and rabbinical colleges for those who wish to become priests, ministers and rabbis.</p>
<p>However…Notre Dame may be a Catholic school, but many non-Catholics are happily attending. Catholic students at the school do not exclude or “put down” the non-Catholic students.</p>
<p>I think you can start by looking at the colleges policies and procedures. For ecample</p>
<p>Does a school have mandatory chapel or even a frequently attended voluntary chapel?
Do they require signing or agreeing to live by a community covenant?
Are pastoral recommendations required as part of the application process?
Are their rules in place tied to the religious faith ?</p>
<p>To me - it has to be in a school’s ethos and it has to manifest itself in a schools actions, policies, etc. It is not enough to be merely affiliated with a certain religion, or to have a number of students of a certain faith attending. Hence I think you really have 3 categories: Religious schools, religious lite schools (ie those that have some tie to religion but really aren’t a full fledged religous school) and secular schools</p>
<p>Hi. Good to have a thread to discuss this topic, instead of derailing the other one.</p>
<p>berryberry - A group of students attending church does not make a campus religious. What can make a campus feel religious is when those students assume that their acquaintances also attend church (of some denomination, not necessarily theirs). I doubt you would get many questions in the South asking what mosque you attend, for instance; in the “Bible Belt,” that sort of question is considered common courtesy. But to a non-religious student, it is also uncomfortable (and illustrative of how Christian this supposedly secular nation really is).</p>
<p>Baelor - You yourself stated earlier that self-identification is useless and irrelevant unless it’s actually true. I go on that assumption; perception is indeed reality, because the people who call themselves Christian are Christian. If they’re not Christian enough for you, well, they probably belong to a different denomination with different standards of piety. The consequences of such an affiliation DO exist–i.e. the assumption that your friends are also Christian, as evidenced in a casual question about church.</p>
<p>I am making a DISTINCTION between philosophy and religion. If you disagree with the distinction, then calling my statement untrue is irrelevant. Can you cite a historically secular college that requires religion (not including philosophy or ethics) in the general education curriculum? A requirement for philosophy OR religion allows non-religious students to study secular philosophy, and acknowledges that religion is not any more important than other branches of philosophy.</p>
<p>It is indeed “self-evident” that a student who considers him/herself religious would also profess to being a [Christian/Muslim/Jew/Hindu/Buddhist/insert name here]. If we assume, like rational people, that most such self-identifications are made by likewise rational, reasonable people, then your hyperbole–“if I identify as liberal but never speak of my beliefs or do anything that would suggest what I believe”–is absurd.</p>
<p>1) People who call themselves bananas are clearly not bananas. That’s the point. You’re interpreting religion as merely a self-identification. But it might as well not exist if it has no effect on the life of the individual at all. Unless you consider a campus of self-proclaimed fruit to be exactly that. The assumption of their faith is entirely inconsequential as long as it has no impact on the rest of the campus in any way whatsoever. The assumption that a student will self-identify as a banana hardly means that campus is full of them, unless the students are tall, yellow, and protected by a soft shell.</p>
<p>2) In light of that distinction, I have not done enough research to determine the answer. </p>
<p>3) Clearly you are unaware of the number of people who claim to be religious based solely on their upbringing and not any actual beliefs or actions. So that distinction is not at all absurd.</p>
<p>1/3) If you had read my previous posts (in the other thread) more closely, you would have noted my earlier exception for people who self-identify as Christian but don’t regularly attend church. If someone does regularly attend church and go through the motions of being a devout Christian, then the private beliefs in their head are irrelevant to others–what matters is the societal/environmental norm set, and church-going Christians contribute to a religious norm. </p>
<p>For similar reasons, many homosexual/transsexual students prefer a campus environment where the assumed sexuality is not heterosexual. Do the students who presume heterosexuality as the norm also discriminate against homosexuals? Most likely NO. But as you have said yourself in similar words, tolerant != active.</p>
<p>
Different atheist/agnostic students will be comfortable at different levels of “religious” schools. However, creating a religious/secular dichotomy is flawed the same way a friendly/intolerant dichotomy is flawed wrt LGBT life. An atheist student who would be comfortable at Georgetown might not be comfortable at ND, might not be comfortable at BYU.</p>
<p>And to clarify: Since you disagree with my labeling Notre Dame as a “religious” school, is it your position that in a school such as ND, with 85% self-identified Catholics, Catholicism has “no impact on the rest of the campus in any way whatsoever”?</p>
<p>Its rhetorical. Its also highly subjective. Religious to one is not necessarily religious to another. And one’s personal beliefs have nothing whatever to do with the culture and activities on a particular campus. You can have a secular campus full of HIGHLY spiritual christians who are silent about their beliefs. </p>
<p>Bananas and Oranges. </p>
<p>Make a list of your schools, whether secular or religious, visit them, make your selection and move on.</p>
<p>1) Read the mission statement, every college seems to have one. Does the first paragraph contain a reference to god or religion? If so, you have a religious school. Just mentioning an “affiliation” does not always signal a religious school however.</p>
<p>2) Does the president of the school wear a collar? Dead give-away.</p>
<p>I know this is simplistic, but it’s where I start.</p>
<p>Baelor - You are, of course, free to estimate what percentage of that 85% does not regularly attend church. My reasonable assumption is that most Catholics who would attend ND would also be regular churchgoers. Non-religious students at ND, IMO, are largely those who are not Catholic and chose the school for other reasons despite the religious affiliation.</p>
<p>So, take out the statistic if it bothers you so much. In your own subjective opinion, does Catholicism have “no impact on the [campus] in any way whatsoever” at Notre Dame?</p>
<p>Good – let’s just be clear on what it is. And given the number of Catholics who label themselves as such and do not go to mass, I’m not so sure. The cultural aspect of Catholicism at ND may be a draw, even if they are not particularly religious.</p>
<p>And I would not pretend to know enough about religious life on the ND campus to be able to make that judgment.</p>
<p>The key distinction between schools that are sponsored by a religious entity and those that are truly religious in nature is the extent to which the doctrines and policies of the religious entity control teaching and campus life. The difference is significant. A religious denomination can sponsor a college in which autonomy and academic freedom are respected. But they can also impose limits on teaching and expression that put constraints around what can be considered. In the latter case, the end result is not higher education at all, since a necessary process of intellectual development is the encouragement of students to re-evaluate their own basic assumptions in order to examine them objectively among a range of alternative values. If the values that can be tolerated are pre-determined for students, the outcome may be training or indoctrination, but it’s not higher education.</p>
<p>I agree that mission statements are valuable litmus tests of a school’s religious orientation. Reading the online campus newspaper can also give you a good idea of how free students (and newspaper advisors) feel they are to express a full range of opinions and ideas.</p>
<p>I think it depends on the school
There are some schools where the religion can barely be noticed, and there are others schools where they open every class with a prayer. You can’t generalize all religious schools. You have to do it on a school by school basis, I would think.</p>
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