What did happen to the cheater?

Parents Forum
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<p>See texastaximom's post # 79 for further info about the multiple infractions <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=804276#post804276%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=804276#post804276&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>If I recall correctly (please correct me if I am wrong) I believe Txtaximom's child was one of the individuals from whom the "cheater" acquired information. I understand her passion and applaud her willingness to put forth the effort to try to get an honor code in place. </p>

<p>Having followed the history of this on several threads, I don't really see this as a "witch hunt" or as putting someone up as a "scapegoat". She (the person who engaged in the dishonest behavior) is merely the symptom of a bigger problem in the school that Txtaximom is trying to remedy. Perhaps some people here are reacting to the term "cheater". This girl is a HS senior (soon to be graduate). She should know better. For all we know, she might have turned 18 last fall, and for the entire academic year was an "adult", for whom the consequences of theft can be greater. Children and adults alike need to understand that there are consequences to behavior-- good and bad. Responsibility is a key issue here. If she had been speeding, she would have gotten a ticket. A second infraction would have a stronger consequence. Where I live, students get licenses at 16 (ugh!). They are expected to follow the rules. It should be no different in the school environment. </p>

<p>Even if this poor girl has come from a broken home, has abusive, alcoholic parents, has multiple medical and emotional problems, that doesn't excuse the multiple incidents of dishonest behavior. Was she offered any help? Is she a kleptomaniac? Is she a sociopath? Or is she just a desperate, troubled kid looking for attention? As others above questioned, where are her parents in all this?? Are they involved? Have there been any conferences with them?? Is the girl in therapy? We will probably never know. But for the school administration to turn a blind eye to this situation or give a small slap on the wrist is outrageous. </p>

<p>Here, 2 girls will not be allowed to march with their graduating class because they borrowed a kitchen knife from a teachers desk to cut a graduation cake in school. (Don't remember why the teacher had the kitchen knife in their classroom, but that isnt the issue). This zero tolerance is a bit much, in my view, but the school is claiming that these students knew the rules about having a knife of any kind. So the girl who cheated multiple times should get a slap on the wrist?? Where is the justice?? She didn't know the rules??? She shouldn't have to be responsible for her behavior? No one is saying to put her in the stocks in the town square. The system needs to be fixed, and that is what txtaximom is trying to do. Bravo.</p>

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<p>We only heard one side of the story here and it is a story that in my opinion has way too much identifying information so as to implicate privacy issues. It seems like a bit of a personal vendetta to me.</p>

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<p>mcdeb, whose personal vendetta?</p>

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<p>People who cheat in high school and get away with it will surely go on to do it in college and beyond. YOu wouldn't believe the amount of cheating and plagerzing I have encountered in undergrad AND grad school. Students writing papers for other students, students stealing and or/trashing other peoples projects, etc. I called someone on it too (I was sitting next to this person as the ctrl+v'd entire paragraphs from other sources into his essay) and he was just like "thats how I write papers." </p>

<p>I understand this lady's frustration with trying to encourage students to do the right thing while people who skirt the rules come out on top.
Why shouldn't people know who this person is? The multiple instances of cheating have been confirmed! I'm not saying that they should hang a poster with the girls name and face from the front of the school, but no extra efforts to protect her privacy should be made either.</p>

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<p>Personal vendetta? Hogwash!!! When is wanting people to behave with honor and honesty a personal vendetta?</p>

<p>I applaud Texasmom. She could just say, well, I am out of here, so who cares. She didn't. She is putting herself out there, giving of her time, to do the right thing. </p>

<p>This girl-cheater has gotten press, is stepping up to get an award she didn't earn, she deserves no extra privacy protection. If she had any class what so ever, she would do the right thing. </p>

<p>I hope she gets the silent treatment at the awards, at graduation, and from other students. A bit of shunning is in order.</p>

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<p>Once again, WHERE are the parents of the child cheater in this story??</p>

<p>I must agree that once a cheater, always a cheater unless rapid and measured discipline is taken. I've recently had dealings with a med student who will be allowed to graduate next year who a) cheated on an exam and got caught; b) didn't turn in assignments (always an excuse, of course); c) was caught falsifying parking validation so she wouldn't have to pay; and d) didn't show up for an exam (she "forgot" what day it was on). Despite complaints from several faculty, nothing substantive will be done. The administration is too afraid of litigation. My question is: What next? Forging narcotic prescriptions? Falsifying data for NIH grants?</p>

<p>No, cheating doesn't stop until the student is stopped. This student should have been given F's.</p>

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<p>Greybeard you are correct. It was inaccurate for me to state that Sen. Biden was asked to leave Syracuse Law.
Nevertheless, he failed his legal methods course at the Syracuse University Law School because he plagiarized a paper. Yes, his home state supreme court "cleared" him 20 years later when he was a US Senator, but the fact remains that the law school flunked him because he lifted 5 pages out of a law review article verbaitim with only one footnote to the source.</p>

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<p>Well, I would hope that the "side topic" regaring Sen. Biden (about which I know nothing) would serve to illuminate the danger of forming emphatic opinions based on one (irate) person's report of events. There's at least two or three different versions of that one, involving a public figure and (apparently) well reported events. Regarding "the cheater", I don't know the kid, don't know the school, don't know TxTxMom. And none of the rest of you do, either. Based on my almost entirely consistent experience in matters of this type, I suspect that others viewing the situation first hand would describe it in significantly different terms than TxTxMom did. (The parents of "the cheater", for example.) And their alternative description of events would be equally compelling and sympathy-inducing as the one we've been reading. I'm with the poster on the other related topic: "get over it and move on."</p>

<p>Oh, and while I'm at it: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."</p>

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<p><<why shouldn't="" people="" know="" who="" this="" person="" is?="">></why></p>

<p>Because school records are confidential. Because laws exist to both protect individual privacy and to protect children. This site explains it pretty well. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.winslowsd.k12.az.us/specialservices/confidentiality.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.winslowsd.k12.az.us/specialservices/confidentiality.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Is this student a boy or a girl? Some of you are saying he and some she.</p>

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<p>Oh my! You leave for a minute and look what happens!</p>

<p>To answer some questions:</p>

<p>Yes it was repeated infractions. No punishment detered this student from cheating again. I don't know how long it has gone on, just that this year has been particularly bad.</p>

<p>No, I have not posted anything that would identify the sex of the student, or other information that could definitely identify the student. We have over 4,000 students in our school. Everyone at the school knows all about it, because it was very out in the open. What they will do with this student will remain confidential.</p>

<p>Vendetta? I don't think so. My child will not benefit in any way if this student is punished, other than someone that took his answers (among many who were wronged this way) will be held accountable for their actions. They were not in any direct competition for scholarships, colleges or anything else for that matter.</p>

<p>Walking away perpetuates the problem. If cheating does pay, then it will continue. I have agreed in many of the other posts that the administration is also accountable for not stepping in sooner. The other students did try to handle it, as did some of the teachers and they got nowhere. Sometimes it takes a person outside of the directly impacted, such as myself, to get policies changed.</p>

<p>FWIW, I gave the board some information on exisiting discipline codes that were suggested here. They were very appreciative. If so many schools have these codes in place, then obviously I am not the only person that feels that cheating should not be ignored. I really didn't think cleaning up a system where cheating can be done so readily was a bad thing.</p>

<p>I thank all of you for your support and suggestions.</p>

<p>edit: The solution I am trying to achieve is to make it so that this does not happen again. It has moved beyond the original person, their actions, and the actions of the administration. Now we are moving towards a district policy that will ensure that transgressions are dealt with even-handedly. None of the policies I've seen have suggested zero tolerance/one strike only and I don't think that has been suggested here. Multiple infractions, as in this case--(lying, cheating and stealing) over time are dealt with in a more severe manner. At no time has this child's name been released, and the entire punishment is not known. (some punishments become public such as seeing a person at ISS or not seeing them at a ceremony, but nothing is made public) That being said, I reiterate that all of the students classmates and teachers are fully aware of the issues, as they have been repeated on a frequent basis. Why should the students who do their own work tolerate someone who doesn't? Now they won't have to.</p>

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<p>Eskimo,</p>

<p>We agree. (I thought the Delaware Supreme Court action was odd, and seemed politically motivated.) The Syracuse episode, coupled with false statements he publicly made about his class standing in law school, together with the whole "platform to stand on" plagiarism snafu (for which his defense was that is speechwriter plagiarized, not him) present a pattern that makes it hard for me to take Biden seriously as a political figure. I'm appalled that he hasn't relinquished his presidential ambitions.</p>

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<p>TXTaxiMom,</p>

<p>You have performed a wonderful community service here, both in your discussion of the honor code issue on CC and in terms of dealing with the cheating in your child's high school. My hat is off to you! You have given the gift of moral fiber to the next generation and encouraged many parents that all hope for responsible behavior is not lost! I cannot thank you enough!</p>

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<p>Txtaximom-
Glad to hear things are moving forward, and that you may have some success in righting a wrong within a system. Honor Codes are appropriate and helpful. Everyone follows the same set of rules. My s's HS and college have honor codes, and they work very well. If cheating or plagirism occurs, it is dealt with. </p>

<p>Last year (when he was still in HS), I called my son to leave a voicemail on his cellphone. I think he'd accidentally forgotten to turn it off and it rang, but it was between classes and he saw that it was me so he answered the phone. He got 5 hrs of detention for being on the phone during school hours, because they have a strict rule about cellphone use because of the many possible ways newer phones can be used to access the internet, textmessage each other, etc. Didn't matter that the phone my s. had at the time was a dinosaur and had none of those features. The rules were the rules. Did we like it, no. Did we understand and accept it. Yes. It taught him to be sure his phone was off and taught me to call after school hours. We learned from our mistake, even though it was a small one. That is as it should be. But the rules have to be in place for them to be enforced, and that is what txtaximom is trying to do. Again, bravo.</p>

<p>No one is trying to violate anyones privacy (and BTW mcdeb, I had trouble getting your link to open correctly-- maybe it was confidential :)). The contents of a students record are not at issue here. Guidelines for acceptable behavior are. I fail to understand why that is a problem.</p>

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<p>Greybeard, I agree with you about Biden. What about Teddy Kennedy, who cheated at Harvard and was kicked out, only to be admitted by U of Virginia Law School, where he barely squeaked through as John Tunney's roommate? His cheating also presaged a life of duplicity and apparent felonious conduct.</p>

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<p>Do any of you find it interesting that we have to have an honor code put into place NOW? In our day, there was an honor code. It didn't have to be written up & documented. At what point did cheating, lying, etc., become okay or mistakes? We knew that if we cheated, lied, didn't turn in our homework (finished & on time I might add), take tests, etc. that we where going to get into BIG trouble.</p>

<p>The teachers that I know are afraid to reprimand students for anything anymore. They have no principals/administration to back them up (guess what that means? - we are not backing them up either or they would). Little Johnny or Susan's parents call them up & literally swear at them & threaten their lives if they don't change grades, etc. Half of the teachers are afraid for their lives. This is not only happening in inner city schools like everyone thinks it is happening EVERYWHERE. Our new HS designed the school based on safety - not for the everyday safety, but because of school shootings. They actually had no hall monitors because kids where beating them up! My children don't go to the bathroom during school hours because of the smoking, drugs, & harassment issue. Do any of the other parents care? No - it's just typical HS stuff.....they'll only be there for four years.....we all did it..... </p>

<p>Somewhere along the line parents have given the schools the right to take care of everything other than academics. We want them to teach our children everything (morals, values, discipline). What about us? We need to become parents again & stop making everyone else responsible for our children.</p>

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<p>I was thinking the same thing. How far we have slid. Our high school has just as big of a problem with discipline infractions....everything from missing undergarments = distracting clothing to "lewd acts," "bomb threats," "assault," and "arson." I kid you not, those offenses are listed on the discipline reports to the school board, and they have tick marks under them. Not to mention the scuffles that are really melees, the sexual harrassment, and the actual ingestion of drugs in the classroom with the teacher present. Maybe cheating just pales in comparison, but I do wonder how our high school got to be a zoo, and why any serious student would bother to attend. Why must we pay for security guards and a permanent police officer just to get through the school year.</p>

<p>Parents definitely get involved, but not always how you would expect. There is a lot of "not my child," and "I'll sue if you punish," and wheeling and dealing if you know the right folks. Which I guess would explain the lack of ethics that the cheaters have inherited.</p>

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<p>mominsearch, AMEN, AMEN and AMEN! I wish y'all could hear just a portion of what the teachers at my school take from parents. What a breath of fresh air it is for a parent to actually come to the school and support the teacher or principal in whatever disciplinary measures are being taken with their child(ren). We've had children who have punched teachers, called them a f'ing b---h, etc. and I work in a school (nurse) that is very desireable and in a very nice area. I applaud teachers. I couldn't do their jobs. Having worked at a school for the past five years, I can honestly say that children are not the biggest problems ... parents are.</p>

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<p>tesastaximom - I fear for our society. Sometimes I feel like I'm just one parent against a thousand. If this situation was happening years ago then you would have had most of the parents on your side now you'll be lucky to find a handful. The worst thing is that even though a few of us are teaching our kids that there is such a thing as consequences, rules, values, morals, etc., at some point they see everyone else doing whatever & their peers are going to influence them more.</p>

<p>The phrase that makes me mad is "it takes a village to raise a child". We absolutely need to watch out for other children, etc. but I think that most people think that the village is watching out for my child so why should I?</p>

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<p>texastaximom, You know where I stand from our PM's but I wanted to publicly urge you to keep posting with whatever frequency you may desire.</p>

<p>The board is enlightened by your posts and we as parents should be invigorated by your success in attempting to right the ship at your school.Your courage has been manifested in many ways through this process at the school and even on this board. I'm sure it hasn't been easy. You have never flinched at those who wield a keyboard like a bludgeon, and who seem to have nothing but malevolent purpose. You are an inspiration to me and hopefully to all other posters to keep our criticisms civil, and our minds open, while always be willing to share our experiences for the common good, and to debate in good faith. This board depends upon people of good will and noble purpose and you are one.Thank you.</p>