<p>Just an anecdote: my son is working at Target this summer, and the first week he would trek across to the Baja Fresh (quick restuarant) to buy dinner or lunch. Smart boy that he is, he soon figured out that it was "costing" him over an hour of wages for each meal that he ate. He now packs himself a lunch/dinner. A good lesson to learn.
My D is doing a college language immersion program that was free: full tuition, room and board (with a generous food stipend), and free study abroad next summer. She also went to Nicaragua with a student group, and only had to cover a small amount of food expenses. Although it would be great if she was earning money this summer, she's not COSTING us any money, and she's taking advantage of wonderful opportunities that may benefit her in the future. (Plus, she works during the school year and has a fellows grant next school year.) Time for a fulltime job after she graduates! :)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.arcamax.com/zits/s-211056-242888%5B/url%5D">http://www.arcamax.com/zits/s-211056-242888</a></p>
<p>Very relevant to this discussion!</p>
<p>this summer my 17 yr old is an intern at a lovely residential camp on an island in Puget Sound.
Unlike her sister, who also trained at this camp as jr riding staff and later for pay, my youngest has found that she likes kids more than she thought- she especially is having fun with the young middle school and older elementary age boys.
All her sister could say was " Im glad its not me!"
:)
So they didn't get * paid* when they were in high school, but they were having opportunities that we couldn't have paid for & they are getting lots of experience that helped get even better jobs later.</p>
<p>To illustrate some of the above points, above --</p>
<p>My S (rising college freshman) is moving furniture. He has no job security there, in fact just shows up on the lot and if there's work, he gets picked; if not, he goes home for the day to read and do projects, including one assigned by the college.</p>
<p>WIth physical work, he's building muscles without going to a gym.</p>
<p>Doesn't that sound dull? The work is dull but the meanings learned aren't. Last night he came home discouraged because of an all-day experience of racist banter by the moving team, all triggered by one racist comment from with the client they were moving. (Note: all players in this story were white).</p>
<p>As I listened to him talk it out with his sister (recent college grad), I think I heard at least 5 departments of liberal arts study addressed: what the crew said to the client and behind his back (American Studies); what my S did and didn't do as the newbie on team (Psychology); what he should have done (Ethics/Religion/Philosophy). With his sister, he tried out some possible comments he wished he had made (Communications), but didn't to keep his job which he needs to meet his part of the college finaid equation (Business).</p>
<p>Sometimes moving TV's is more than just moving TV's. </p>
<p>I actually wish he could travel abroad, though -- honestly that would be my first choice but it's not a choice. Meanwhile, it's a lot of learning in one day.</p>
<p>Certainly you can travel and broaden, or travel and take little meaning from it. Same with menial jobs.</p>
<p>It's hard to find a job, internship, or travel opportunity that isn't valuable for kids at this age.<br>
I certainly had to work summers- I worked during my senior year in high school as well, every year in college, and every summer in-between. My husband worked every summer since junior year of high school, and pretty much every day for the last 30 years.
My son pretty much followed my path, working part-time during summers in high school, working a 40hr. week job the summer between senior year and college, taking on two jobs at his college during the year, and now working three different part time jobs this summer one with the firm he worked for last summer (editing audit reports), one with our local tennis club (websie design) and one for Pomona College. Of course work is a valuable experience, and it pays,too! </p>
<p>What bothers me about this article marite posted is the haughty tone the colleges are taking, looking down on kids who are trying to broaden their experience through third-world travel or volunteer work, or interest related internships. The message here is that paid work, not just paid, but what some might consider menial work, is unusual among college bound students, and somehow superior to volunteer work. Granted, that this is just spin of the article, and may not be true at all, but I really hope the adcoms realize that all of these experiences are valuable. That trip abroad gets kids outside of their comfort zone, helps them put their own life and standard of living in perspective, and gives them a view of the world that couldn't be acheived otherwise. The volunteer in local public service may see a part of their community that they don't interact with on a daily basis. There really is value in all of these activities, and I get a bit peeved when articles such as this try to pit kids against each other - one's resume percieved as better, or taking the "hard road" and downplaying the value of the other. Do we have to see kids as "resumes?' </p>
<p>Sure glad I didn't grow up in these times. </p>
<p>Working at Sears, retail was a good experience in my youth, but my education would have been expanded emensely with a summer teaching children in a less developed country.</p>
<p>ASAP...I agree. My mantra is to spend your summers doing something worthwhile, whether it is earning money through a job, or some other experience around an interest you have. I wouldn't pick it around college admissions and wouldn't care what the adcoms thought. It wouldn't be an influence as to which option was chosen. I would suggest the student do the experiences for their own sake, whether the reason was to earn money or the reason was it was an experience they had a genuine interest in. When admissions rolls around, let it be what it will be. My kids never chose what to do in summers with admissions in mind. We happily paid for summer and EC experiences while in HS. We do not pay for summer experiences for them after HS graduation, nor now in college. They earn their own way. My kids have held jobs. They also have used their earnings to supplement other meaningful summer experiences while in college.</p>
<p>I suspect that the haughty tone is an unfortunate by-product of trying 1. to curb the trend toward expensive and not necessarily educational summer ECs and 2. reassure families with limited means that not going to Tibet or Timbuktu will not lower their chances of admission to college.
I don't think adcoms were trying to suggest that learning another language or engaging in foreign travel was a waste of time and money.
S1 traveled to El Salvador for one week while in high school. Prior to the trip, he'd learned a lot about the country and the specific area where he would be going. Despite his limited Spanish, he was able to communicate with some children there. He saw first-hand the kind of education the kids had access to, the standards of living in that poor community and the very basic needs that had not quite been addressed yet. It made a huge impact on him, even if he and his group did not improve that community's life except for the fund they had raised prior to the trip.</p>
<p>I don't think admissions people would think that someone is using foreign travel just build a resume, unless they try to build their resume just based on their foreign travel experiences.</p>
<p>Does that make sense? I'm talking about someone who makes it the "capstone" of his application.</p>
<p>And I can't imagine anyone holding it against someone. I've seen that mentioned in other threads as well, and I don't think there's any evidence that happens.</p>
<p>Not everyone can afford to study abroad. Some of those programs are in the tens of thousands of dollars, not something the typical family can afford. It's probably pretty obvious to someone reading an application what kind of background you come from, for example if you're applying to a 45K a year school and check the box that you will be seeking FA, you're folks probably don't have the means to send you on a summer abroad stint. Therefore it follows that you instead are doing community service, working, or doing summer school over the break.</p>
<p>I think the important thing is you do <em>something</em>.
.</p>
<p>the assumption that volunteering and interning are somehow less than getting paid is absurd</p>
<p>last summer my D interned at a radio show, the year before, she volunteering 3 hours a day (she also taking a summer school class) at City Hall downtown, dealing with all kinds of people, staff, burracacies, etc</p>
<p>My youngest is doing 2 volunteer/internships this summer, one is at a magazine, the other a senior home</p>
<p>sometimes it fun, othertimes its tedious, but all help her and help others</p>
<p>when I first read the article, it made me wonder, what really were the girls motives and was she maybe feeling the need to make excuses</p>
<p>and I think it is WONDERFUL that more kids are volunteering and doing service work, etc than before so fewer are looking for work...is that a bad thing?</p>
<p>I have a slightly different approach to all of this. First of all, I am extremely low income so D having job to help with her expenses would have been great! However, a couple of years ago, I sat down with her, we figured out how many hours of homework she did per day/week/school year, then I took the amount of college education, figured out how much she could get with good record, divided that by the # of homework hours, it came out to about $100/hour, thats when I told her that was her job! She has coached summer league swimming for the past two summers, and is now at a state gov. hnrs program for 6 weeks that isn't costing me anything but the price of her weekly laundry. I guess my point is that I figured what she was not making for herself in the past will help in the future.</p>
<p>it also saddens me the presumption of the admissions officers that many kids do stuff to look good on a resume</p>
<p>don't they think that taking calculas and ap for many is the same thing</p>
<p>or would they rather cookie cutter kids doing the same kind of work at the mall?</p>
<p>i would hope they would want a range of kids- some who traveled, some who worked, some who did volunteering, and some who babysat</p>
<p>if they assumed my Ds do what they do to pad a resume, that may be 10% true, but both felt volunteering in something they liked and helping others was better </p>
<p>as well, most of you know about my Ds summer camp experience job from hades, well, she isn't looking for another job right now, as most are filled or no one wants someone for just 4 weeks, so volunteering it is</p>
<p>We did not give our son a choice during his hs summers, he got zero money from us and cellphone/car insurance policy would be cancelled. As a result he kept his RC Life Guard cert current and had a full time summer job at the lake down the street. No summer enrichment programs. No CTY. No exotic travel.</p>
<p>Not that those things are bad, but we felt that the summer job would teach him many lessons that would help him in adult life. Now that he is approaching college graduation we see evidence that his academic and non academic experiences seem to be paying off.</p>
<p>And I smiled when he received that first paycheck and wondered why it was less than he had expected. Welcome to the real world son.</p>
<p>I guess I feel that some don't respect volunteer and internships as summer activities that teach some of the same values as getting a paycheck does</p>
<p>my D calls her internships her "jobs" as she takes them very seriously and responsibily</p>
<p>my other D, well, what she learned though she didn't get a paycheck was invaluable</p>
<p>so my Ds did both, volunteered and summer enrichment, we were lucky to have the options</p>
<p>for my Ds for the oldest D., i twas, dealingl with the "interesting" people in SF coming to her desk daily with all kinds of issues, for my other D, it is playing bingo with elderly infirm people and listening to their stories, or going behind the scenes of a magazine and working on files, moving boxes, etc</p>
<p>no paycheck, but the experience she is getting is rare for most 16 year olds</p>
<p>Both my S's work year round and have since they turned 16. They work to pay for their various expenses and spending money. It isn't an option not to. They have both learned lots of valuable real world lessons from their jobs that they could not have gotten anywhere else. </p>
<p>All of their friends work too (even the more well off ones). It's just what teenagers do here. You don't hear of kids from our sch. going away for the summer for enrichment oportunities/volunteering ,etc. Some of the athletes go to sports camps for a week but thats about it.</p>
<p>Lest we get on yet another thread where people start alleging that adcoms hold things "against" kids...</p>
<p>Here are some quotes from the article:</p>
<p>"The most important thing is that teenagers do something productive and meaningful, admissions officers said. But they do not give as much credit to a fancy summer activity if it seems more like padding than passion."</p>
<p>I'll buy that. The operative words here are <em>it seems more like padding than passion</em>. Fair enough. If a college is looking for enthusiastic, engaged students who will continue to be active in the community, it's reasonable to want to see some passion rather than opportunism. It's up to the student to communicate that in their application.</p>
<p>"Admissions deans are loath to suggest that certain types of experiences are better than others, and say they do not hold a lack of paid work against applicants. Still, deans at several elite schools said they are taking more notice when students have unglamorous jobs."</p>
<p>Yes, I imagine so, if they've seen so little of it in the past. It is probably much more common to see part time work on the application of a kid for state U than for Harvard. The operative words here are <em>loath to suggest certain types are better than others</em>. Fair enough. I interpreted this to mean that the minimum wage laborer is somewhat of a rare animal in the high stakes elite college game.</p>
<p>The article goes on to say that adcoms wax poetic about their own high school menial jobs. So what? I do the same thing sometimes. I spent several years during college sloshing beer and wine and slapping deli sandwiches together. I too have a soft spot in my heart when I talk to a kid who works food and beverage. </p>
<p>The last example, of a young man who is doing "sporadic" community service in order to get a scholarship is merely an example of what the adcoms are referring to when they talk about padding vs. passion. OK. </p>
<p>My take on all of this is it's basically a non-issue. Doing a stint in Tibet isn't going to <em>help</em> you anymore than scooping ice cream. Or should it?</p>
<p>Doubleplay.....good post.</p>
<p>DP:</p>
<p>You got it. And yet, I remember the discussion we had some time ago on the super-applicants. No one picked on the fact that K. Cohen suggested that one applicant beef up her resume by taking a trip abroad. We were more focused on other aspects of the story. But she did (cringe). Who knows how many students feel obligated to try to save the world in one summer? I remember a CC poster who lamented that he could not write an interesting essay because he'd spent his summer at the take-away booth of his local McDonald.</p>
<p>I think one could write a hilarious, irreverant, entertaining essay about working in a McDonalds drive through! I'd say that is excellent fodder for a great narrative and expose' on human behavior. :D</p>
<p>He did in the end write a nice essay, I thought. And he did write about the foibles and quirks of the customers he served and the staff he worked with. But his lament was so reminiscent of suburban kids' complaint that nothing interesting happened in their lives to provide fodder for an application essay! I think that and the emphasis on ECs and passion (who can be passionate about bagging groceries) has fueled the drive for exotic travel and save the world ECs.</p>
<p>I reread the article trying to look at it in a more balanced light, but I still feel that the author choose to portray the adcoms as preferring those who work for pay over those who volunteer, and portrayed those who volunteer in a less positive light than the kids who get paying jobs. </p>
<p>A few paragraphs that were not included in a previous poster's post.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The people who typically would've worked a fish and chips stand or scooped ice cream are gone," Coffin said. "When we read an [application] folder with work experience we usually comment on it in a very favorable way. If he works 20 hours a week at Stop & Shop, we'll say, 'That's really refreshing and old-fashioned. Good for him.' "
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
"We see essays that say 'I spent two weeks in a Chinese orphanage and it changed my life,' " said Debra Shaver , director of admission at Smith College. "But where is the pattern showing interest in community service?"</p>
<p>Summer travel and study can make students more worldly or civic-minded, but often fail to teach how to persevere through boredom, take orders, or work with people from different backgrounds, admissions deans say.</p>
<p>Shaver was happy that her teenage son got a job in a hospital kitchen, learning that he could not just call in sick on days he did not feel like getting out of bed.</p>
<p>Many deans look back fondly on the menial jobs they sweated through when they were teens. Coffin worked at McDonald's, where he had no choice but to keep flipping burgers in the hot kitchen, even when a bus full of senior citizens showed up with special orders. He became friendly with peers he'd never met in his honors classes, students not bound for college.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And the last page is pretty much more of the same - praise for those who work, not so impressive for those who volunteer, such as the boy who had two volunteer positions, one with paramedics, and one with an Alzheimer organization. </p>
<p>Hey, my son has always wanted to work. And for as high a salary as possible.I have no doubt do very well economically for himself in the future. My daughter was the volunteer type - and still feels she wants a career that enables her to give back. They are both great kids and do what they do because they feel good about it, not for any resume building purposes.</p>
<p>I found this paragraph interesting;</p>
<p>
[quote]
Lynda Gordon, Lily's mother, agreed that her daughter had no time for a steady job, but found it a shame. She had allowed an older daughter not to work in the summers because her high school was so academically stressful. That daughter is now 31 and just settling into a full-time job as a social worker.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No shame in being a social worker. Some kids just enjoy non-profit work because it gives them satisfaction. But it definitely is work.</p>