What Did You Do Last Summer? Jobs. vs. Internships

Parents Forum
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<p>We see essays that say 'I spent two weeks in a Chinese orphanage and it changed my life,' " said Debra Shaver , director of admission at Smith College. "But where is the pattern showing interest in community service?"</p>

<p>Two weeks in a Chinese orphanage? If that isn't community service what is?
From the first hand descriptions I have heard of the orphanages, even the "nice" ones that they show to americans, it sounds pretty depressing and stressful.
Perhaps Debbra should do a little traveling herself and think "outside" the box.
;)</p>

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<p>Also, how do the adcoms in the article come to see working at stop & shop as 'refreshing and old-fashioned/" That baffles me.</p>

<p>My son's closest friends that I think of off the bat:</p>

<p>To WashU - worked summers in a restaurant as a host, and scooped ice cream at Baskin Robbins during senior year.</p>

<p>To Princeton - Has worked for two years at Cold Stone</p>

<p>To Wellesley - works summers in office downtown</p>

<p>To Bryn Mahr - works summers at a preschool</p>

<p>To Williams- works for past 3 summers at his high school summer camp </p>

<p>To Davidson - director for high school summer camp</p>

<p>All of the above for pay.</p>

<p>These kids also were involved in various volunteer activities as well.
So I guess I can agree with doubleplay, that this is a non-issue :)</p>

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<p>Won't it be interesting to see if this generation of volunteers to third world countries turns out to be more compassionate and philanthropic than their well-to-do parents?</p>

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<p>Again, I think it's all about context. If an applicant spends 2 weeks in a Chinese orphanage, and there is no other sign of interest in community service, the trip to China looks to adcoms as resume padding. And it probably IS resume padding. NSM has plenty to say on this subject.</p>

<p>The adcoms who are being interviewed for the article are from top universities which tend to attract middle class students. And many middle class students do not spend their summers working. Mine did not, though they did nothing with a view to resume padding (one went to music camp, one went to academic camps). But I do remember that when I was in college, there was not the wealth of summer programs that are available now and most college students had not traveled abroad before college. So someone who had gone abroad (or, like me, was foreign) was pretty exotic. Now, at some colleges, it is the other way around; at least this is what the article seems to say.</p>

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<p>ir is an issue if we act like internships and volunteering are lesser activities then scooping icecream</p>

<p>my D helping the lady who had two kids who was running from her H is pretty darn valuable real life experience</p>

<p>or my other D who helps the magazine prepare for its next layout and seeing the tedious work involved</p>

<p>work is great, but so is doing real volunteering to help others- and if more people went to Tibet and saw what was going on there, the wolrd would be better off</p>

<p>or if more went to mexico, or to see the coral reefs distruction, or the loss of rain forests to grow coffee, or went to a ranch to help the wild horses</p>

<p>this attitdue that somehow exploring the world as not being a worthy enough way to spend some time is really sad</p>

<p>when I was in college I worked at a lumber yard, yep, a teen girl hauling lumber, but part of that job was "charity" work, and that was more rewarding and educational then ringing a cash register ever was</p>

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<p>I know several girls who HATE crew, but do it so they can get into a good college, gee, resume padding?</p>

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<p>I read the adcoms comments to mean that part time and summer jobs are perfectly acceptable. The less than flattering comments about the overseas stints and community service were because they saw a lack of real commitment or consistency (we didn't see the whole application so I'm taking their word for it). The complimentary comments toward minimum wagers- so what? Just because someone gives someone a compliment doesn't mean everyone else has to be insulted.</p>

<p>I see the article as marite does- that summer "jobs" have become rarer. As a matter of fact, that was the whole premise of the article I believe.</p>

<p>cgm, with respect you are reading an awful lot into the article and your take on the ulterior motives of adcoms is very uncomplimentary.</p>

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<p>I agree with you, marite. I just find the tone off-putting. It's probably the fault of the writer more than the adcoms. </p>

<p>I also find it surprising. So many kids we know definitely work when they can. And they come from what I consider prosperous families. </p>

<p>I think the movement, or whatever you wish to call it, toward volunteerism is a wonderful thing for those who can afford to do so. I don't want to see it denigrated, and maybe I'm too sensitive about it, but I feel this article did, to some degree denigrate those who choose volunteerism over paid work.
Great article for discussion, though! Thanks for posting it!</p>

<p>And cgm - I, for one, am grateful we have kids like yours, who enjoy serving the greater good. We need all kinds.
I definitely know where you're coming from - I felt the neg vibe, too.</p>

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<p>I think the commitment to volunteerism probably plays into it. For example, if someone reports a couple weeks of volunteer work because they went on a single trip somewhere during the summer between their 9th and 10th grade... OK that's nice, but I wouldn't write an essay saying it changed your life- after all, if it really did, wouldn't you have done something since then? That's the kind of stuff I think the adcoms were talking about.</p>

<p>I DON'T think they were talking about the kind of volunteerism cgm's daughters are involved in (ongoing, or related to something they are interested in or concerned about).</p>

<p>The tone of the article is the responsibility of the writer, not the adcoms. If you just take all the quotes out (and don't interpret compliments to some as insults to others), it doesn't come across as bad as some say.</p>

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<p>A.S.A,P.:</p>

<p>I agree with you about the tone.<br>
My S mentioned his trip to El Salvador under "foreign travel." He did not consider it an EC. But it did make him aware of living conditions in El Salvador in a way that a TV documentary or newspaper articles could not. So from our perspective, it was a very worthwhile experience. One young woman who also made the trip is now employed full time in the NGO that organized it.</p>

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<p>I think it so depends on the kid. My son has always gone to music camps in the summer, as well as volunteered for a local music camp for a session when he has been home, and like SoozieVt's D, worked in music (teaching, accompaniment) making about $25 an hour. The latter is far from full time (he does this during the school year too), but he earns a nice chunk of change, which is required for his expenses, since we don't pay for those things like lattes, dinners out, movies, etc.</p>

<p>I don't know why the working at Burger King or mopping floors is somehow "better" than his type of experience.</p>

<p>I also think a kid who had a volunteer abroad experience, in the context of similar interests at home, would still look great to the adcom. I have a problem with the kids who go to Thailand for two or three weeks, and come home and write about their life changing experience. I am sure it might be life changing, but something about those essays is always really off-putting, to me.</p>

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<p>In my training as a college counselor, one sample essay (meaning a good one) we were given was about the student working at a bagel shop and the lessons learned from working a seemingly trivial or "low level" job. It is a great essay.</p>

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<p>Allmusic, one of my kids went abroad the summer before senior year but like you say, it tied into her interests at home....it was a tennis program that involved training and matches across Europe and she was on the tennis team at home and wanted to combine tennis training with foreign travel as she also loves travel. Never thought about college admissions in making that choice. </p>

<p>While she has earned money being a waitress and a camp counselor, both unrelated to her pursuits, my other kid has earned money all related to her pursuits, like your son has. Either way, they earned money. I don't value one experience over the other.</p>

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<p>"Simba, that is a generalized, non factual statement."</p>

<p>Generalization...sure, but GAMOM you should sometime visit scholarship forum.</p>

<p>I personally know 4 kids who wouldn't have worked during the summer. Somehow they were lucky to find empoyers who was willing to pay under the table.</p>

<p>"Are you assuming because people are poor that they adverse to working?"</p>

<p>I didn't say that. did I?</p>

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<p>Recently I read some material on the elementary education curriculum in Japan. I was amazed to learn that they program in a half-day per week, starting around Grade 1 and on up, to take every kid to a setting where they can interact with elderly people. This was expressed as citizenship and built into the core understandings of the curriculum. In other words, caring for the elderly (specifically, the elderly...) wasn't "EC," it was "C."</p>

<p>One difference is that, as a teenage employee, you can get treated TERRIBLY (yelled at, etc.) but as a volunteer you hopefully are paid in appreciative praise. All work is all important, but everybody managing volunteer programs well knows to lavish praise on volunteers. If they forget to do this, it's their downfall and they won't fill up the spots or keep people showing up for free. The client of the program (those in nursing homes, or remedial summer tutoring programs..) might be cranky, but the volunteer coordinator better not be. </p>

<p>AllMusic, musicians who earn by teaching from home are working just as hard as anybody!! IMHO, it should be counted doubly-well in the admissions game. It takes great mental concentration to make a good lesson, especially if the student of the lesson is younger than the music teacher. It takes organization, psychology, motivation to make a lesson work; not just the musical skill alone. My only hope is that admissions people are close enough to the education process themselves to understand what a worthy job this is. </p>

<p>Do you think it might sound less amazing because it's done from the home? Shouldn't be...</p>

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<p>I reread the article, and what some here fail to discuss is that these kids are working to cover something like car insurance</p>

<p>many kids work for real life expenses, to me a car is a luxary, my kids don't have their own cars</p>

<p>so, is it somehow so noble to work to cover an expense for a luxary in many cases, or to work because it is a family neceseity? all this talk, in the article about travel being not really able to teach life lessons is hogwash, as well as the idea that those that don't work don't know about tedium or working through boredom</p>

<p>I guess what irks me about the article is that it sees work as cute and novel ,and character building, while disparaging other types of programs...well, seems in most cases of the kids they interviewed, the work wasn't done because they had too, as was the case when I was younger, but to pay for car insurance, cell phones</p>

<p>look at the Jobs these paid kids have, and then look at the volunteer work, does that volunteer work look so easy? do we really think being an ambulance responder is learning less about life then the icecream scooper?</p>

<p>that is what the article implies and that somehow the "unwillingness" to get a full time job working at the mall is horrid, but the work at an alzheimer office is being lazy....</p>

<p>sorry, it gets my blood going- my Ds friend have paid jobs, and you know what...each and everyone of them got the job through family connections as did most of the kids I know</p>

<p>one kid worked for A&F and just stood their looking handsome for 6 weeks, and his life lesson was what exactly</p>

<p>I am not disparaging work, but the assumption of the article and the adcoms quoted that somehow other activities just aren't worthy</p>

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<p>
[quote]
sorry, it gets my blood going- my Ds friend have paid jobs, and you know what...each and everyone of them got the job through family connections as did most of the kids I know

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Generalization?Just as your blood boil, my would too regarding the volunteer job. D has a friend who got her volunteer job this summer through an uncle/aunt. She has no interest in this subject.</p>

<p>While D had to learn how to do a resume, how to interview, and how to get along with all kinds of people at work from all walk of life.
I couldn't be more proud of her and her job than the A's she brought home. Again each case is different. Sorry had to run, got to go to the beach now.:)</p>

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<p>I think it is a shame when anyone - anyone - finds it fruitful to rank one type of summer activity over another. Which is "better," "more honest," "less self-serving", done more for its own intrinsic value than for resume padding? </p>

<p>Is it -
paid menial work, paid career-related internship, volunteer career-related internship, foreign travel, wilderness experience, babysitting, contemplating one's navel? </p>

<p>We can't rank them. All can be productive. All can be growing experiences. All can be learning experiences. </p>

<p>Each could be done purely for resume padding with no genuine interest in or need to pursue the activity. Each could be done with the purest of motives. </p>

<p>Let's not assume that we know the hearts and minds of the kid who goes abroad for two weeks of volunteering any more than we know the hearts and minds of those working at McDonald's. The former could be attempting to buy her way into any Ivy, or genuinely learning how others live. The latter could be contributing to the finances of a very strapped family, or spending every penny on beer, cigarettes and designer clothes.</p>

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<p>Getting jobs through family connections does not send my blood boiling. We "got" DS his first job, at age 14, through knowing the owner of a local seasonal ice cream place. </p>

<p>We are on the affluent side and we wanted our son to have the experience of a summer job. Along with whatever pre-season sports training he was doing that year and spending time with his friends. </p>

<p>The job was a 25 minute drive away. He was too young to drive, so we drove him both ways and, at age 14, he was only allowed to work 2-4 hours at a time. So the net income to our family was probably negative. Might seem foolish to some.</p>

<p>To us, it was character building. A learning experience we wanted him to have. And reflective of values we wanted to inculcate.</p>

<p>Now, if I was still "getting my kid a job through connections" by the time he was - I don't know - 18, 21, 32.... I'd see problems there. I don't see problems with family networking as part of a job search any more than I see problems with other forms of job search networking.</p>

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<p>I have seen the point Simba made in action. </p>

<p>I know a neighbor whose D gets financial aid from her college. I remember the first summer her D was home from college, she didn't have a job. The neighbor told me that she was unsure how the summer job would affect the financial aid package, and they really couldn't afford to have the financial aid package decreased. So rather than jeopardize the financial aid package, the D didn't work.</p>

<p>The neighbor must have figured it out, because the D has worked the last two summers.</p>

<p>It really had nothing to do with "laziness" or an unwillingness to work, but with a real fear about how the financial aid system works and the concern of screwing something up unintentionally.</p>

<p>and I think that was Simba's point.</p>